Are Christians to keep the Sabbath?

[chakham]

Since you quoted Isa 56, let me ask some questions from it:

1. So tell me Kumi Ori, which covenant is chapter 56 referring to?
Hint: Old Covenant

Laugh all you want. The covenent remains in place felix. You asked for some good reasons why a gentile should follow the commandments. Being happy, joyfull and allowed to come up to His Holy Mountain to whorship Him are some pretty good reasons if you ask me. Just keep in mind God breathed those words, I didnt, your argument is with Him.

2. Who is the person referring in Isa 56 in context of foreigner?
Hint: who has joined himself to the Yehovah

Yes I know, your point being? If you are not native born you are then identified as a foreigner, stranger, sojourner. When you are grafted into the true vine of Israel you are one with them and nolonger looked upon or considered someone or something different.

3. What must one do to be joined himself to the Yehovah?
Hint: Circumcise

Circumcision of the flesh is a sign of the covenenent. It does not in of itself save you. As I said once before in another topic it is not a get out of jail free card. What saves a man is the circumcision of the heart, the desire from a mans heart to be obedient to His King. Not by looking at the His commandments as a daily legalistic checklist but as a way of live. It is that which indentifies the person who does them as His.

Circumcision is still part of the covenent. When I read Jerimiah 9 two kinds of people will be punished. Without a doubt right off the bat all the uncircumcised a.k.a. all the nations. Then those of Israel who are circumcised but not circumcised in the heart. It seems to me that those who are circumcised in the flesh AND heart will have a place in the land.

I brought this up once before. You said all we need to follow is the 'new' commandment Jesus gave "to love your neighbor" that everything else before is obsolete. The thing is Felix, it isnt new, it was a commandment given by Yehovah and recorded several hundred years before Jesus was born in Leviticus 18. Is this commandment obsolete too Felix? What gives you permission to pick and choose from those "obsolete" commandments which ones you will obey and which ones you will not?

I can only laugh when an uncircumcised gentile following Sabbath and justifying himself saying he is following the obsolete old covenant.

Please explain, I was born of Gentile parents, I am circumcised and I observe the Sabbath and I cannot find anywhere God breathing words to the effect He now disregards His own covenent He made with the people of Israel.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, you are rearranging and adding to the text...

Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Until heaven and earth pass, nothing will pass from the law until ALL is fulfulled.

Is all fulfilled? Christ returned? The Kingdom ruling on earth? Did you look at the sky the morning? Put your feet on the earth?

Much more than one jot or tittle has passed from the law.

That being true, one of the two conditions for that to be possible has been met. Obviously, heaven and earth have not passed, so we know the fulfillment has occurred.

It's simple logic.

Hebrews says no such thing. The entire book is devoted to a change in the Priesthood from the Levitical (Aaronical) priesthood to a Melchisidec Priesthood.

aka...a change in law:

For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law." (Hebrews 7:12 NIV1984)

Not what it says, Hebrews does not say the law has passes, it says there needs to be a change in the law of Moses, not the Ten Commandments...

When you 'love your neighbor as yourself' you have fulfilled ALL of the commandments:

9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” (Romans 13:9 NIV1984)

And if you don't think that a different, spiritual fulfillment of the literal Sabbath command counts, then tell Jesus his sacrifice does not count as a fulfillment of the very literal, but very different requirements of the law for sacrifice for sin.

Chiming in as I can...


Just so you know where I'm heading, I don't believe the Sabbath is required. That's a lot different than the knee jerk response to the law that the Catholic church saddled the body of Christ with. They think it categorically wrong, and not allowed to keep old covenant worship commands. That is a terribly, misguided and spiritless understanding of role of law in this New Covenant. My argument is it simply isn't required to keep those laws as conditions for being in covenant with God as they once used to be. No one is condemned by not keeping them anymore. And neither is anyone condemned for keeping them...unless it is for the purpose of justification. THAT is what is anathema, but which the Catholics do not understand.

 

[rrowell]

Please explain, I was born of Gentile parents, I am circumcised and I observe the Sabbath and I cannot find anywhere God breathing words to the effect He now disregards His own covenent He made with the people of Israel.

Colossians 2:13-15 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

2 Corinthians 3:3 (KJV)
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.


Ephesians 2:14-22 (KJV)
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.




There are few, but one should be enough.
He abolished the covenant with Israel, but made another that includes Israel and everyone else!

 

[rrowell]

Just so you know where I'm heading, I don't believe the Sabbath is required. That's a lot different than the knee jerk response to the law that the Catholic church saddled the body of Christ with. They think it categorically wrong, and not allowed to keep old covenant worship commands. That is a terribly, misguided and spiritless understanding of role of law in this New Covenant. My argument is it simply isn't required to keep those laws as conditions for being in covenant with God as they once used to be. No one is condemned by not keeping them anymore. And neither is anyone condemned for keeping them...unless it is for the purpose of justification. THAT is what is anathema, but which the Catholics do not understand.

Those who claim the old law to still be in effect and claim to go by it, are not keeping it, as James said:

James 2:10 (KJV)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

How many here claim to keep the "law" yet do not give sacrifice?

To keep the whole law means THE WHOLE LAW, they cannot do it to save their life (pun intended) and be saved, the reason God MADE a new covenant, through Christ and HIS law under the NEW PRIESTHOOD can we find salvation....

 

[John 8:32]

Much more than one jot or tittle has passed from the law.

That being true, one of the two conditions for that to be possible has been met. Obviously, heaven and earth have not passed, so we know the fulfillment has occurred.

It's simple logic.

Hmmm, you say it has passed, Christ says that heaven and earth will pass first. I think I gotta go with Christ on this one.

aka...a change in law:

For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law." (Hebrews 7:12 NIV1984)

I addressed that in post #260. You are pulling one verse out of context and setting doctrine with it.

When you 'love your neighbor as yourself' you have fulfilled ALL of the commandments:

9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,†“Do not murder,†“Do not steal,†“Do not covet,†and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.†(Romans 13:9 NIV1984)

Not exactly...

Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

John 14 shows that keeping the Commandments is loving God.

1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Explain how summing up details with a general principle does away with the details...

Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Loving one's neighbor as yourself is the summary of keeping those Commandments.

And if you don't think that a different, spiritual fulfillment of the literal Sabbath command counts, then tell Jesus his sacrifice does not count as a fulfillment of the very literal, but very different requirements of the law for sacrifice for sin.

Why is it a DIFFERENT fulfillment than that He gave in Mat 5, 6 and 7? This is where He shows that He added great depth to the Commandments adn that He did not do away with them...

Mat 5:21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Sounds to me like this was a magnifying of the law just as He said He would...

Isa 42:21 The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

That certainly did not strike down the seventh or tenth Commandment, did it?

Chiming in as I can...


Just so you know where I'm heading, I don't believe the Sabbath is required. That's a lot different than the knee jerk response to the law that the Catholic church saddled the body of Christ with. They think it categorically wrong, and not allowed to keep old covenant worship commands.

No, they thought to de-Judaize the church. They also think that the RCC has a higher authority than the scriptures and they base this on what is known as the Primacy of Peter.

That is a terribly, misguided and spiritless understanding of role of law in this New Covenant. My argument is it simply isn't required to keep those laws as conditions for being in covenant with God as they once used to be. No one is condemned by not keeping them anymore. And neither is anyone condemned for keeping them...unless it is for the purpose of justification. THAT is what is anathema, but which the Catholics do not understand.

OK, then what is the New Covenant?

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

God writing His Law in our hearts and minds.

 

[John 8:32]

Those who claim the old law to still be in effect and claim to go by it, are not keeping it, as James said:

James 2:10 (KJV)
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

What this plainly says is that if you break on, you are guilty of all. If you break one of God's laws, you have sinned and are under the death penalty.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

How many here claim to keep the "law" yet do not give sacrifice?

I do every time I pray. I ask that Christ's sacrifice, which replaced animal sacrifices (the schoolmaster), be applied to me to forgive my sin...

Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;
Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Notice the bolded portion does not say for "the doing away with the law", it says for "the redemption of the transgressions". And what might that be?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Let's say it all together now, sin is the transgression of the law.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

To keep the whole law means THE WHOLE LAW, they cannot do it to save their life (pun intended) and be saved, the reason God MADE a new covenant, through Christ and HIS law under the NEW PRIESTHOOD can we find salvation....

Yet you keep telling me the reason for the New Covenant is to do away with the law. I guess that is one way to solve the problem of sin, do away with the law and there is no sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

But if the law is done away, no one needs a Savior because if there is no law, there is no sin and therefore nothing to be saved from.

Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Christ did not come to do away with the law, He came to bear our sins so we don't have to pay the penalty for them...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[John 8:32]

Colossians 2:13-15 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

A few other translations make "cheirographon dogma", the Greek for handwriting of ordinances plain that it is not speaking of the Ten Commandments...

New International Version (©1984)
having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.

New Living Translation (©2007)
He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross.

English Standard Version (©2001)
by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

International Standard Version (©2008)
having erased the charges that were brought against us, along with their obligations that were hostile to us. He took those charges away when he nailed them to the cross.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And he has blotted out by his authority the bill of our debts which was adverse to us and he took it from the midst and nailed it to his cross.

2 Corinthians 3:3 (KJV)
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.

And? He says the same thing here he quoted in Hebrews...

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

The Ten Commandments were written in stone, but are to be "written in fleshy tables of the heart."

Pulling one verse out of context often leads to mistaken conclusions.

Ephesians 2:14-22 (KJV)
14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

"It is of interest to note that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" is a Greek legal term that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--through Jesus the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"), not the law! "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them" (Heb 10:16).

Even Protestant commentators realize this. Notice what Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible states about Colossians 2:14:

Whatever was in force against us is taken out of the way. He has obtained for us a legal discharge from the hand-writing of ordinances, which was against us (v. 14), which may be understood,

1. Of that obligation to punishment in which consists the guilt of sin. The curse of the law is the hand-writing against us, like the hand-writing on Belshazzar's wall. Cursed is every one who continues not in every thing. This was a hand-writing which was against us, and contrary to us; for it threatened our eternal ruin. This was removed when he redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us, Gal 3:13. (from Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible: New Modern Edition, Electronic Database. Copyright (c) 1991 by Hendrickson Publishers, Inc.).

Some will argue that you still cannot keep the ten commandments (for "all have sinned"), even if they are all mentioned as being in effect after the crucifixion. Does this mean one should not try?

Furthermore, let's look at another translation:

14 having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross (Colossians 2:14, NASB)

The handwriting of requirements (often also called the hand-writing of ordinances) or certificate of debt was wiped away and nailed to the cross.

Which requirements were wiped out?

Please understand that the expression "the handwriting of requirements" (cheirógrafon toís dógmasin) is a Greek legal expression that signifies the penalty which a lawbreaker had to pay--it does not signify the laws that are to be obeyed--only the penalty. It is only through the acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ that the penalty was wiped out ("the handwriting of requirements"). But only the penalty, not the law!" - Bob Thiel

There are few, but one should be enough.
He abolished the covenant with Israel, but made another that includes Israel and everyone else!

And that Covenant is the writing of His Laws on our hearts and minds, not the abolition of the law.

 

[John 8:32]

No one is condemned by not keeping them anymore. And neither is anyone condemned for keeping them...unless it is for the purpose of justification. THAT is what is anathema, but which the Catholics do not understand.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Well then, what is sin?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

And what comes of unrepented, unforgiven sin?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

The Schoolmaster taught us that sin requires blood.

Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Christ shed His Blood for us so that we can be forgiven...

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Heb 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

Condemnation comes from unrepented sin. The law defines sin...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Sin brings death...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Christ's shed blood atones for that sin and gives us redemption from our trangressions...

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

 

[rrowell]

I do every time I pray. I ask that Christ's sacrifice, which replaced animal sacrifices (the schoolmaster), be applied to me to forgive my sin...

but nowhere in the new Covenant does it tell us to keep the Sabbath, just like it does not tell us to do animal sacrifice, your keeping "part of the old law", not staying in the Law of Christ making His cross of no effect?

 

[John 8:32]

but nowhere in the new Covenant does it tell us to keep the Sabbath, just like it does not tell us to do animal sacrifice, your keeping "part of the old law", not staying in the Law of Christ making His cross of no effect?

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.


New International Version (©1984)
There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

New Living Translation (©2007)
So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God.

English Standard Version (©2001)
So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

International Standard Version (©2008)
There remains, therefore, a Sabbath rest for the people of God,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
So then, it remains for the people of God to keep the Sabbath.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Therefore, a time of rest and worship exists for God's people.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.

American King James Version
There remains therefore a rest to the people of God.

American Standard Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Douay-Rheims Bible
There remaineth therefore a day of rest for the people of God.

Darby Bible Translation
There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God.

English Revised Version
There remaineth therefore a sabbath rest for the people of God.

Webster's Bible Translation
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Weymouth New Testament
It follows that there still remains a sabbath rest for the people of God.

World English Bible
There remains therefore a Sabbath rest for the people of God.

Young's Literal Translation
there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God,

The word for rest here is Sabbatismos...

The New Testament Greek Lexicon

Strong's Number: 4520 sabbatismo/v
Original Word Word Origin
sabbatismo/v from a derivative of (4521)
Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
Sabbatismos sab-bat-is-mos'
Parts of Speech TDNT
Noun Masculine 7:34,989
Definition
a keeping sabbath
the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians

Keeping the Sabbath and the second definition is in complete harmony with Col 2:16-17

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbath is a shadow of the rest YET to come when Satan is bound and the earth is ruled by Christ during the Millenium.

We've been through this before, but I will do it one more time...

What is the Law of Christ?

First of all...

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

So no one has EVER heard His voice or EVER seen His shape...

Gen 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.

Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.
Gen 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

Somebody was talking to Adam and Eve and it was not the Father.

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,

And proceeded to speak the Ten Commandments to the whole of Israel.

Deu 5:4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

Exo 33:17 And the LORD said unto Moses, I will do this thing also that thou hast spoken: for thou hast found grace in my sight, and I know thee by name.
Exo 33:18 And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.
Exo 33:19 And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.
Exo 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.
Exo 33:21 And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:
Exo 33:22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
Exo 33:23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

Here God is talking to Moses and them allows Moses to see His backside. Remember the passage in John?

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

Who was this?

Exo 3:14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.

Joh 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.

Notice in the King James the word he is italicised? Means it was supplied by the 1611 translators and it wasn't in the original manuscripts. This is why the went backward and fell, they recognized who I AM was.

So, doesn't take too much scholarship to determine who spoke the Ten Commandments on Mt. Sinai...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

So, Christ gave the Ten Commandments. Same Christ that said...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

and...

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And this young nobleman was trying the same arguments to skirt around keeping the law. Which? He asked. The law of Christ?

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

so Christ answered Him by enumerating some of the Commandments to show He was talking about the Ten Commandments.

Paul recognized this...

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Circumcision was such an issue that there was a church conference over it and James, the head of the New Testament church, rendered a decision to quell the debates and arguments. Circumcision was not part of the Law of God (the Ten Commandments, written on stone and placed inside the Ark), circumcision was of the law of Moses (written in a book and placed on the OUTSIDE of the Ark). Why was there no uproar over doing away with one or all of the Commandments and there was such a hubbub over a practice that was not part of the Law of God that a conference had to be called and a decree made to settle it? Because the Ten Commandments still stand fast until this day and will into the future.

 

[rrowell]

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Yes, there remaineth a rest for the "people of God":

Matthew 11:28-29 (KJV)
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

 

[John 8:32]

Yes, there remaineth a rest for the "people of God":

Matthew 11:28-29 (KJV)
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

So, you said the Sabbath command was not reiterated in the NT. I showed you that it is. Smoke and mirrors?

 

[chakham]

... There are few, but one should be enough.
He abolished the covenant with Israel, but made another that includes Israel and everyone else!

You may want to reconsider your evidence. Especially the one which says he will write His commandments on the tablets of your heart. Which is my point, I do not do them to earn salvation nor have I ever expected that from anyone. They are given to teach me (us) what is, in His eyes, holy righteous and good and I want to do them because I love my Him.

Heres something for you to consider too. The words I gave supporting the Sabbath were breathed by someone speaking in the first person namely the Prime Cause of all exsistence Yehovah your Elohim.

I asked you where Yehovah said He abolished His covenant and gave out another. But instead you gave me the words of a man and his opinion written in a letter to people I dont know.

So again I ask you, where did God say He abolished His covenant? Btw, His established covenant already is available to everyone.

 

[John 8:32]

There are few, but one should be enough.
He abolished the covenant with Israel, but made another that includes Israel and everyone else!

Just an aside, but are you sure the Old Covenant is abolished? I think that is opinion, not fact...

Heb 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


New International Version (©1984)
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

New Living Translation (©2007)
When God speaks of a "new" covenant, it means he has made the first one obsolete. It is now out of date and will soon disappear.

English Standard Version (©2001)
In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
When He said, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

International Standard Version (©2008)
In speaking of a "new" covenant, he has made the first one obsolete, and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
In that he said, “Newâ€, he has made the first old, and that which is outdated and old is near destruction.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
God made this new promise and showed that the first promise was outdated. What is outdated and aging will soon disappear.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
In that he says, A new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and grows old is ready to vanish away.

American King James Version
In that he said, A new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and waxes old is ready to vanish away.

Interestingly enough, these translations and many more, including the KJV, do NOT say the Old Covenant is abolished, it is ready to pass away. When does that occur?

At His return and...

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

 

[rrowell]

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
In that he says, A new covenant, he has made the first old. Now that which decays and grows old is ready to vanish away.

intr.v. van·ished, van·ish·ing, van·ish·es 1. a. To pass out of sight, especially quickly; disappear. See Synonyms at disappear.
b. To pass out of existence.

2. Mathematics To become zero. Used of a function or variable.

vanish. (n.d.) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. (2003). Retrieved August 29 2012

 

[felix]

I asked you where Yehovah said He abolished His covenant and gave out another. But instead you gave me the words of a man and his opinion written in a letter to people I dont know.

So again I ask you, where did God say He abolished His covenant? Btw, His established covenant already is available to everyone.

(Jer 3:1) "They say, 'If a man divorces his wife, And she goes from him And becomes another man's, May he return to her again?' Would not that land be greatly polluted? But you have played the harlot with many lovers; Yet return to Me," says the LORD. .. (Jer 3:8) "Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.

(Jer 31:31-34) " Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

 

[Gerhard Ebersöhn]

Yes, there remaineth a rest for the "people of God":

Matthew 11:28-29 (KJV)
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

GE:

The word for 'rest' in Hebrews is 'katapausis', not the word 'sabbatismos' used in 4:9 for, literally, "KEEPING of the Sabbath Day".

 

[rrowell]

Heres something for you to consider too. The words I gave supporting the Sabbath were breathed by someone speaking in the first person namely the Prime Cause of all exsistence Yehovah your Elohim.

I would love to see the actual document you say were written (or breathed so you say) by God himself not through inspired men.

I asked you where Yehovah said He abolished His covenant and gave out another. But instead you gave me the words of a man and his opinion written in a letter to people I dont know.

If you say you don't believe the Bible is the inspired word of God, I think your on the wrong forum.

So again I ask you, where did God say He abolished His covenant? Btw, His established covenant already is available to everyone.

I did, now show me the ones you have... so I can read them...

 

[chakham]

(Jer 3:1) "They say, 'If a man divorces his wife, And she goes from him And becomes another man's, May he return to her again?' Would not that land be greatly polluted? But you have played the harlot with many lovers; Yet return to Me," says the LORD. .. (Jer 3:8) "Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.

Please explain if you will the context of these verses. I have my own understanding of the text. But I would be interested to know what you think it means.

(Jer 31:31-34) " Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day [that] I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

I'm not sure what you are driving at with this portion of the text either. This new covenant does does not abolish or take away any of His commandments. In fact the new covennant is described in the very verses you provided. In that He will put His Torah in our minds and write His commandments not on stone but on the tablets of our hearts.

Do you understand this? Instead of hating it, instead of abolishing it, instead of laughing at it, instead of stones of legalism. We should have as our hearts desire to do them because we love the One who gave them to us.

When your laws says drive the speed limit, decorate your trees, raise your flags, when to rest, these you will do. But when Almighty God your King and Creator says to do something you laugh and say its not for you? Considering the contempt you have for His ways it appears, according to Yirmiyahu, your heart is missing something. You asked for a reasons why, I gave some to you. Which God says you should be happy to abide on His commandments, He would give you joy and let you worship Him on His Holy Mount. Yet your carnel mind still doesnt understand this and says its not for you.

Read His commandments you should find something holy righteous and good to live by and teach your own children to live by. They are not burdensome or heavy nor are they so far above us that we cannot do them.

I make no demands of you or anyone concerning His Torah. My advice to you and others is to work this out in prayer with fear and trembling before Yehovah your Elohim.


------------------

Oh, btw rrowell. In the book of Shemot, Yehovah has said regarding sabbath (and I quote) "Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for an everlasting covenant.
17 It is a sign between me and the people of Israel forever; for in six days Yehovah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed."

Do you understand the definition of 'forever' and 'everlasting'?

And please note too he didnt say the Jews (those from the Judea) shall keep the sabbath. He said the "people of Israel" namely the native born and also includes the foreigner (gentile) who has been grafted in.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OK, then what is the New Covenant?

old covenent: Levitical Priesthood, animal/ grain sacrifices, Mosaic Temple

New Covenant: Jesus Christ and the Church--the new Sacrifice, the new Priesthood, and the new Temple where God comes down to meet man.

The schedule of worship in the first covenant is for service in that covenant of Levite/ sacrifice/ and temple. It became obsolete along with the priesthood, sacrifice, and temple of the first covenant.

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

God writing His Law in our hearts and minds.

The key to understanding the end of the first covenant with the people of God is the part about the forgiveness of sin in the Jeremiah/ Hebrews passage about the New Covenant (the part which law keepers don't make a point of quoting, but which is so important to understand the role of the law in this New Covenant).

The old system of sacrifice, priest, and temple is no longer needed for a people forever and perfectly forgiven in Christ. The author of Hebrews explains this. I will attempt to explain it here as time permits.