Are there any Muslim's on this board?

[seekandlisten]

Hi seekandlisten,

I thought that people of other religions also claim that their religions are the ‘only true way’, like Judaism for example.

Hi Maryam

Yes, you are correct in that almost all believers in their respective religions feel that their religion is correct. What I was getting at was more along the lines of do you yourself feel that someone like me would have to believe in Islam in order to avoid hell? For instance, if I believe in one God above all and treat others with kindness would I have to specifically 'convert' to Islam to be considered 'saved'?

I have always looked a passages such as -

5.69. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

5.72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.


From these I see an acceptance of others belief systems as long as the belief is directed to One God. What is your personal opinion on this matter? Do you believe that it comes down to how one lives their life more so than what beliefs they hold?

As a Muslim, I believe that Islam is the ‘only true way’ because this is what God says, and I don’t have doubts about that!

I can respect your position in this sense and have no opposition to beliefs of others, I just try and understand them in order to broaden my knowledge.

Christians claim to worship one God, but they consider Jesus as god, and this is not acceptable in Islam because we believe that Jesus is a Prophet of God, and that he was a human being.

I agree with you on this point.

So how come Islam and Christianity are both true religions?

I guess this is really the same question I'm asking. I tend to disagree with the 'my religion is better and one should convert' attitude and would rather just discuss opposing beliefs over trying to convince someone else to believe the same things I do. I believe one can broaden their knowledge of 'God' by studying various beliefs and practices without the need to convert to a certain religion. To often people go on the defense when it comes to discussions about beliefs and I don't understand it, as long as both parties respect the others beliefs why can't a civil discussion ensue? Why the need to deteriorate to violence and fighting over something as simple as words and opinions?

This is just my perspective on religion, so feel free to share how you feel about this.

cheers

 

[Maryam]

Your answer you gave me leads me to believe that you would put your tradition above and before the God of Abraham.

Why would I do that?

 

[Mike]

Your answer you gave me leads me to believe that you would put your tradition above and before the God of Abraham.

Why would I do that?

Because...

As a Muslim, how do you know that you will go to heaven (is that worded correct for you)? It's a rhetorical question, because my understanding is an emphatic "you don't". You can try to obey all the laws, pray on your mat 5 times a day, do all the things to life the life, but you never know where you stand with God - if you've prayed enough.

As a Christian, I can say I know emphatically "I haven't. There's nothing I can do to gain approval from God. Fortunately, my salvation doesn't hinge on that. I know I will spend eternity in the perfect presence with the Lord because of the cross.

God has provided a means of salvation to all who accept it. His Grace is sufficient for everyone. Not being certain you are "right" with God, I have got to believe, has got to be suffocating. I couldn't go to my grave wondering if I've done enough.

 

[Maryam]

Very interesting. I did not know you believed in the Antichrist. Do you believe in a tribulation period as well?

We believe that there are signs of the Hour (The Day of Judgment) that foretell its coming. There are minor and major signs. Most of the minor sings already appeared. When the major signs will appear, the Day of Judgment will be very close. The second coming of Prophet Jesus is one of the major signs. Other major signs are the appearance of Gog and Magog, the rising of the sun from the west …etc. you can search for more signs of the Day of Judgment. This link talks about them briefly http://www.islamweb.net/ver2/archive/ar ... &id=135817

And also to go back to my original question, how do Muslims believe Jesus died?

As I told you, we believe that God raised Prophet Jesus unto Himself, and he did not die.
3: 55. Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.

Also, I have been taught that one of the main goals of the Muslim people is to get the whole world to become Muslim. Is this true? Thank you!!

As a Muslim, I think if the whole world converts to Islam, that will be great! We want to deliver the message of Islam to the whole world, but we are not asked to force people to be Muslims.
2: 256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

 

[seekandlisten]

God has provided a means of salvation to all who accept it. His Grace is sufficient for everyone. Not being certain you are "right" with God, I have got to believe, has got to be suffocating. I couldn't go to my grave wondering if I've done enough.

This has been bothering me ever since you posted it and your previous comment. You say God provides a means of salvation to all who accept it and that his grace is sufficient for everyone but then in the same post you turn around and say somehow your beliefs are the only beliefs in this elite club that will be granted salvation. Who are you to decide which 'paths' lead to God and which ones don't, how do you know what's in the hearts of those seeking God?

It was Ralph Waldo Trine who said, "Let us not be among the number so dwarfed, so limited, so bigoted as to think that the infinite God has revealed himself to one little handful of his children, in one little quarter of the globe, and at one particular period of time."

 

[seekandlisten]

As a Muslim, I think if the whole world converts to Islam, that will be great! We want to deliver the message of Islam to the whole world, but we are not asked to force people to be Muslims.
2: 256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

Thanks for posting that. That actually answers my previous question I had asked you.

cheers

 

[Mike]

This has been bothering me ever since you posted it and your previous comment. You say God provides a means of salvation to all who accept it and that his grace is sufficient for everyone but then in the same post you turn around and say somehow your beliefs are the only beliefs in this elite club that will be granted salvation. Who are you to decide which 'paths' lead to God and which ones don't, how do you know what's in the hearts of those seeking God?

Come on S&L. You can't be that far removed from your roots to forget that we believe scripture and respond to it. We don't force the Truth to adapt to us. You know we don't decide. You can disagree with scripture if you choose to, but a Christian doesn't. He responds to it. To that end, basic Christianity states there is no room for error. There's no way to the Father except through Jesus. I don't know whats' in the hearts of those seeking God, but if whatever it is isn't the Gospel and faith in Jesus, God has established that it is insufficient. I know it sounds harsh of me to say (and I sift happily through the threads. I'm not on a rampage), but anyone who waters down the Gospel to the point that it clouds even this basic tenet of Christianity is not serving his God.

 

[seekandlisten]

Come on S&L. You can't be that far removed from your roots to forget that we believe scripture and respond to it. We don't force the Truth to adapt to us.

Yet many people do with their interpretations and classifications of Scripture.

You know we don't decide. You can disagree with scripture if you choose to, but a Christian doesn't. He responds to it. To that end, basic Christianity states there is no room for error.

Yet the bible states 'all have fallen short'.

There's no way to the Father except through Jesus.

Okay, but there are many different opinions on what that means.

Does it mean that the only way to the Father is through Christianity? Jesus was a Jew so what does that mean? Not really looking for answers here just throwing out a couple of scenario's that arise with saying 'Jesus is the way'.

I don't know whats' in the hearts of those seeking God, but if whatever it is isn't the Gospel and faith in Jesus, God has established that it is insufficient. I know it sounds harsh of me to say (and I sift happily through the threads. I'm not on a rampage), but anyone who waters down the Gospel to the point that it clouds even this basic tenet of Christianity is not serving his God.

Well I'm sure we might as well agree to disagree here as the belief that Jesus is God and such is going to come into play here which is a whole other discussion in itself. I'll leave it at that as I'm pretty sure I understand your position on the matter so it would really just be presenting my point of view which is not the topic of this thread. Another time.

cheers

(PS. I'm still interested in your point of view in the other thread as to the 'stars of God'.)

 

[Maryam]

As a Muslim, how do you know that you will go to heaven (is that worded correct for you)? It's a rhetorical question, because my understanding is an emphatic "you don't". You can try to obey all the laws, pray on your mat 5 times a day, do all the things to life the life, but you never know where you stand with God - if you've prayed enough.

As a Christian, I can say I know emphatically "I haven't. There's nothing I can do to gain approval from God. Fortunately, my salvation doesn't hinge on that. I know I will spend eternity in the perfect presence with the Lord because of the cross.

Yes, Muslims can’t say ‘we are saved because we are Muslims’, it is even a sin to say that. I mean who am I to say that I am 100% sure that I am saved?!
We believe that if we enter paradise, it will be because of God’s grace. Yet, God asks us to do good deeds and be righteous in order to deserve the eternal happiness in the hereafter.
I am a human being, I am a sinner, and I am not qualified for the Paradise with my deeds, but I have HOPE in the one true God. I believe in Him as the Most Merciful, Oft Forgiving, and that is why I never give up hope.
Prophet Muhammad said:
"Try your best to do right, and be happy. For none will enter paradise only because of his deeds." His companions said, "O Messenger of Allah! Not even you?" He replied, "Not even I, unless Allah envelops me in His mercy and grace. And bear in mind that the deed most loved by Allah is one done constantly, even though it is small."

As I understand it Mohammad wrote many letters over the course of time. At one point, he was supposedly receiving very militant - kill all infidels - "revelations". But his final "revelation" was one of peace and living life in love with all of mankind. All "revelations" were supposed to negate previous teachings. However, to serve the purpose of Muslim leaders, they fall back and follow the previous militant letters and ignore his final "revelation" of peace. I will admit as I quote "revelations" I come from the belief that he never did actually encounter God. He had a tormented period of depression toward his end.

What do you say about your writings that promises rewards for killing infidels? I'm not writing this in a mean-spirited way. Just trying to get to the point. I pray for all Muslims, that they receive the one True Savior, Jesus and find True Salvation in Him.

Muslims are not asked to kill infidels, we are asked to fight those who fight us and prevent us from delivering the message of God.

Quran 60
8. Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.
9. Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong.

 

[Maryam]

Hi Maryam

Yes, you are correct in that almost all believers in their respective religions feel that their religion is correct. What I was getting at was more along the lines of do you yourself feel that someone like me would have to believe in Islam in order to avoid hell? For instance, if I believe in one God above all and treat others with kindness would I have to specifically 'convert' to Islam to be considered 'saved'?

I have always looked a passages such as -

5.69. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

5.72. They do blaspheme who say: "(Allah) is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, and the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-doers be no one to help.


From these I see an acceptance of others belief systems as long as the belief is directed to One God. What is your personal opinion on this matter? Do you believe that it comes down to how one lives their life more so than what beliefs they hold?

5.69. Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

Well, I can’t see how a person might accept the one true God, and at the same time denies one of his Prophets, any of His revelations, or the Angels …etc.

As to the verse of Quran above, I believe that it means that a Jew who accepted God and Prophet Moses was a true believer of God. But when Prophet Jesus came, the Jews had to accept him as a messenger of God. Those who did not accept him were not true believers, even if they claimed that they worshiped the one true God. Again, when Prophet Muhammad came, and the Quran was sent to him, people had to accept him as a Prophet of God so that they become true believers.

I guess this is really the same question I'm asking. I tend to disagree with the 'my religion is better and one should convert' attitude and would rather just discuss opposing beliefs over trying to convince someone else to believe the same things I do. I believe one can broaden their knowledge of 'God' by studying various beliefs and practices without the need to convert to a certain religion. To often people go on the defense when it comes to discussions about beliefs and I don't understand it, as long as both parties respect the others beliefs why can't a civil discussion ensue? Why the need to deteriorate to violence and fighting over something as simple as words and opinions?

This is just my perspective on religion, so feel free to share how you feel about this.

cheers

I see what you mean, and I think you are right.

 

[yepimonfire]

I am a Christian. In regards to these verses: Quran 112
In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
[1] Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
[2] Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
[3] He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
[4] And there is none like unto Him.
#1. I am a Non-Trinitarian Christian myself, but also Trinitarian Christians also believe God is only. #2. All Christians believe that God is Eternal and Absolute. #3. I do not know of any Christians who believe that God procreates through sexual relations. #4. Christians also believe that there are none like Him. Our scriptures in our bible teach us that God prepared a body for Yahshua inside Mary's womb. I do not know if SeekandListen is still on this message board. He did not like the article I wrote about the name Allah being a blasphemy of Gods name. Originally the Arabs knew God's name as "Yahwah." Allah is the name of a Pagan god.

Well, if you don’t believe in the trinity, that means you don’t believe that Jesus is god, right?

i beleive jesus is jesus, i am unitarian, i beleive in god and jesus, the spirit is the spirit of god or christ it is also logical to beleive christ is our salvation, as someone previously pointed out, the angels are sons of god as well as christ is a son of god but the only son that came in the flesh, by this, we as beleivers are also spiritually born literal sons of god with an eternal inheritance, your quaran contradicts the entire old testament many times and also contradicts itself, i have done hours of research and find islam to be the false prophet of revelations.

 

[seekandlisten]

your quaran contradicts the entire old testament many times and also contradicts itself, i have done hours of research and find islam to be the false prophet of revelations.

I would suggest a few more hours of research.

Here is a good one for looking at end times type of stuff and having to do with revelations.

http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=74

 

[KumiOri]

seekandlisten. FYI it isn't for me to decide what path for you to take. Personally, I was told where that path is and I believed it.

Is Allah is a holy god? According to him, yes. Everyone here knows to be holy is to be pure and without sin. Yet nobody will ever know for sure if they can be accepted by Allah into paradise. How can he allow sin into his presence?

Yet that is what the Trinity (Yahushua) did for us on the cross. He made a way for us to be blameless in His sight. He made a way for us to be sure of our acceptance into heaven. We as followers of Christ serve a personal God who cares deeply for His creation. He doesn't want any to perish (John 3:16).

Unlike the god of the Noble Qur'an, it must be said, Allah chooses to mislead those that he pleases. Allah is not a light to all people, only those he want to be a light to. That said, Allah is not a personal god. The Nobel Qur'an states that even if after a Muslim goes to paradise, Allah will still not be accessible to them. He will be in the third heaven and not approachable.

We on the other hand serve a God that wants to have an intimate relationship with His creation and reached out to us in the form of Yahushua to show us His true character. He wants us to be close to him forever. We will bow and worship before him forever and ever in heaven. While on earth God lives and dwells inside us in the form of His Holy Spirit.

We have a deep, close relationship with God at all times.

I pray you will one day too.

Peace be unto you

 

[Faithful4Christ]

Thank you Maryam

If this does not offend you, can you please help clarify a few things for me? And if you do not feel like replying, by all means please don't. I do not wish to fight.

First of all, the Koran states:

2:190-193 Fight in the cause of God, those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression."

Surah 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

I just wonder if you ever disagree with these things. To me, they seem terrible, so i obviously need some clarification on this.

The Bible states:

(Matthew 5:39-42) 39 But I tell you, don’t resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. 41 Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and don’t turn away him who desires to borrow from you.

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

(Luke 6:27-28) 27 “But I tell you who hear: love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, and pray for those who mistreat you.

As you can probable tell, they are much different.

Also I understand that those who were with Jesus wrote the Bible (only about 20 years after the death of Jesus writting by Mark, Matthew, John, Peter, etc.). In the Koran, who was with Jesus to write down his words? (And also I would like to bring it to your attention that the earliest copy of the found of the Koran is 750 AD, more than 700 years after the death of Jesus).

Again, I do not wish to fight. I am simply stating my beliefs/thoughts and I really want to hear your beliefs/thoughts as well!!! Please do not feel as though I am trying to destroy your beliefs.. Because that is the last of my intentions

 

[seekandlisten]

2:190-193 Fight in the cause of God, those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression."

Surah 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

Just to offer a different perspective, does changing the underlined phrases make it seem a little more reasonable.

2:190-193 Fight in the cause of God, those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression."

Surah 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

 

[Mike]

Yes, Muslims can’t say ‘we are saved because we are Muslims’, it is even a sin to say that. I mean who am I to say that I am 100% sure that I am saved?!
We believe that if we enter paradise, it will be because of God’s grace. Yet, God asks us to do good deeds and be righteous in order to deserve the eternal happiness in the hereafter.
I am a human being, I am a sinner, and I am not qualified for the Paradise with my deeds, but I have HOPE in the one true God. I believe in Him as the Most Merciful, Oft Forgiving, and that is why I never give up hope.

Maryam, I think I understand what you are saying. It may seem almost blasphemous to a Muslim, but Christians have 100% certainty of salvation by having faith in Jesus and His sacrifice for our sins. I would love for you to know 100% that you have salvation.

Muslims are not asked to kill infidels, we are asked to fight those who fight us and prevent us from delivering the message of God.

I pulled some excerpts from the Koran. Now, I realize I’m not reading the whole Koran, and it’s easy (as with the Bible) for someone outside the faith to take certain quotes out of context. I also have to admit, that many of the things I read support your statement that Allah calls his believers to exert force when they or their land is taken by force. But these lines seem to imply killing unbelievers who don’t necessarily take their land or attack them. But, I’m happy to listen if you can make sense of them or put them into context which doesn’t imply this.

From the Koran:

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123

Make war on them until idolatry is no more and Allah's religion reigns supreme - 8:39

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4

Maryam, you are clearly a beautiful person who finds hope from their faith and reject violence. And I know there are many Muslims who share your nonviolent stance. This makes all the violence so hard to understand. I know it is trite to say and cliché, but you understand those that attack innocent civilians and children in the name of Allah make it difficult to trust anyone of the faith, especially when there is so much talk about violence in the Koran. Even more trite and cliché is to ask, “Why do the leaders of the faith not take every opportunity to denounce terrorism?†I know there have been some terrible periods in Christendom’s history, like with the Christian Crusades, but in looking at modern times, I can’t think of mass murders (or even single murders) which were in the name of Christianity that weren’t denounced by our most prominent figures. I can't think of any Christian mass-murders, but I’ll take an example of a twisted person who takes it upon himself to murder an abortionist. This is responded to by the Christian community with repulsion and admonished. Why would Muslims all over the earth denounce terrorism if even to clear the faith of having any responsibility for their actions?

Of course, we believe faith in Christ is the only means of salvation. You can disagree with scripture or dismiss it. But this is what we are given, and it’s why we make every effort to share the Gospel with others. When someone says Christians say only their God is the True God, our response is “Well, yeah! Because that’s what we are told in scripture!â€

Thank you for taking the time to share your faith.

mjjcb

 

[seekandlisten]

Let’s take a look at something.

Muslims are not asked to kill infidels, we are asked to fight those who fight us and prevent us from delivering the message of God.

So there you have it right from a Muslim that they are not asked to kill ‘infidels’. Yet this is not enough for some to realize the in all reality the Muslim extremists that are blowing things up in the name of Allah represent the same minority of the religion as those claiming to be Christians that are blowing up abortion clinics and are ready to stone the homosexuals. The average Muslim is as peaceful as the average Christian we just don’t see it because our neighbors are Christians not Muslims in our side of the world.

There are just as many passages in the Bible telling people to commit acts of violence. I would assume these would be considered being taken out of context though, but then it is turned around and even though Muslims say they aren’t ‘commanded to kill infidels’ those outside the religion will still turn around and say ‘but it says in your book’. Could it be that you are taking it out of context? The fact that these books were written 1400-2000 years ago put them in a more violent time frame? In the first 1000 years of Christianity how many ‘unbelievers’, ‘heretics’ and ‘witches’ were slaughtered? This is the time these books were written. If I lived in a time where those of other religions showed up at my door to kill me if I didn’t convert I would think I would be allowed to fight back.

What it all boils down to is what one wants to believe. Christians already think that they are the only true religion, so anything else beyond Islam being a different religion just becomes more ‘ammo’ to tell them why they are wrong and vise versa. In my study of both religions the only major difference I see, besides rituals, is that the beliefs split when Jesus becomes God, plain and simple. Muslims believe in one God above all and Jesus as a prophet, Christians believe in one God that is three where Jesus is God. A concept that can neither be proven nor disproven in our physical world as it does not apply to our physical world. The argument leading to violence is all what one chooses to decide is ‘real’. A differing of opinions that can take you wherever you decide to let it.

Read you bible and see what is says on the matters of violence. (The ungodly) make false accusations against those living quietly.(Psalm 35:20) The unfaithful have a craving for violence. (Proverbs 13:2) If one wants violence they will find support whether its in the Bible or the Quran if they are looking hard enough for it.

If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other. Galatians 5:15

There is deceit in the hearts of those who plot evil,
but joy for those who promote peace. Proverbs 12:20

A truthful witness does not deceive,
but a false witness pours out lies. Proverbs 14:5

 

[Mike]

So there you have it right from a Muslim that they are not asked to kill ‘infidels’. Yet this is not enough for some to realize the in all reality the Muslim extremists that are blowing things up in the name of Allah represent the same minority of the religion as those claiming to be Christians that are blowing up abortion clinics and are ready to stone the homosexuals. The average Muslim is as peaceful as the average Christian we just don’t see it because our neighbors are Christians not Muslims in our side of the world

seekandlisten, did you even read my post? You said we pull things out of context to make points. I even underlined my statement that I realized I was running the risk of doing this and asked for clarification. Re-read my post. The thrust of my message was the public response from leading Muslim clerics. And I made example of blowing up abortion clinics. I realize there are isolated incidents with twisted Christians. But those are followed by certain dismissals of these acts by regarded Christian figures. You don't see bombs going off, killing masses of innocent people including children. If it were to happen, I would want everyone in the world to know we denounce it and would expect regarded Christian figures to follow suit. I realize these are the minority of the millions in the faith, which makes it all the more important for Muslim leaders to separate them from the Muslim faith. I felt I went out of my way to be cordial, point out the limitations of my quotes and not point a finger at Maryam. I see a lot of violence in the Koran. In light of all the terrorism in the name of Allah, I'm asking her to help me understand.

You said in the Mormon thread you don't go to a Christian to ask about Mormonism. You let a Mormon explain Mormonism. I'm trying to ask something about the Muslim faith from a Muslim. You don't seem to be sticking to your own policy.

 

[seekandlisten]

seekandlisten, did you even read my post? You said we pull things out of context to make points. I even underlined my statement that I realized I was running the risk of doing this and asked for clarification. Re-read my post. The thrust of my message was the public response from leading Muslim clerics. And I made example of blowing up abortion clinics. I realize there are isolated incidents with twisted Christians. But those are followed by certain dismissals of these acts by regarded Christian figures. You don't see bombs going off, killing masses of innocent people including children. If it were to happen, I would want everyone in the world to know we denounce it and would expect regarded Christian figures to follow suit. I realize these are the minority of the millions in the faith, which makes it all the more important for Muslim leaders to separate them from the Muslim faith. I felt I went out of my way to be cordial, point out the limitations of my quotes and not point a finger at Maryam. I see a lot of violence in the Koran. In light of all the terrorism in the name of Allah, I'm asking her to help me understand.

You said in the Mormon thread you don't go to a Christian to ask about Mormonism. You let a Mormon explain Mormonism. I'm trying to ask something about the Muslim faith from a Muslim. You don't seem to be sticking to your own policy.

First off, there was more than your post questioning the promotion of violence in the Quran which had already been answered as it doesn't. In the bible it promotes violence too if you want it too. Somehow though a Muslim telling you that they don't believe in 'killing infidels' isn't enough you need some big news broadcast by a Muslim leader to clarify this. Read the whole Quran, it speaks of kindness to others. Realize when it was written, the time when Christians, who Muslims would have thought to be not true believers, were killing those that didn't believe in Christianity so fast forward to 1400 years later and use a little discretion in trying to understand what is being taught. Like I said if you want violence you will find violence.

 

[yepimonfire]

your quaran contradicts the entire old testament many times and also contradicts itself, i have done hours of research and find islam to be the false prophet of revelations.

I would suggest a few more hours of research.

Here is a good one for looking at end times type of stuff and having to do with revelations.

http://www.newtonproject.sussex.ac.uk/prism.php?id=74

ive done plenty of research, the fact your religion denies christ as the son of god makes it anti-christ, meaning it contradicts the rest of the judao-christian texts.