Are there any Muslim's on this board?

[yepimonfire]

as far as revelations goes, you guys are still waiting for "the day of judgement" but apparently have no clue what it was and what it was reffering to, as do many christians. the day of judgement was judgement on the jews, everything in matthew 25 was fullfilled before 70ad.

 

[seekandlisten]

ive done plenty of research, the fact your religion denies christ as the son of god makes it anti-christ, meaning it contradicts the rest of the judao-christian texts.

My 'religion' is neither here nor there. There are many opinions on the end times and the meanings of revelations. I do read some of them randomly but I recognize that what is going to happen is going to happen whether I believe it or not so why worry about it. There are far more pressing matters facing us as a human race right now then to worry about who's right and who's wrong about the end times.

cheers

 

[JudaicChristian]

Maryam, you should take the time to read through to the end my thread about Allah.

 

[Maryam]

Thank you Maryam

If this does not offend you, can you please help clarify a few things for me? And if you do not feel like replying, by all means please don't. I do not wish to fight.

First of all, the Koran states:

2:190-193 Fight in the cause of God, those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors. And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out: For tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; But fight them not at the sacred Mosque unless they first fight you there; But if they fight you, Slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith. But if they cease, God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in God; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression."

Surah 9:5 But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

I just wonder if you ever disagree with these things. To me, they seem terrible, so i obviously need some clarification on this.

I think there are many verses of Quran that will be difficult to understand if you did not study enough about the history of Islam. Prophet Muhammad was the only Muslim among all people when Angel Gabriel came to him first. Not many people in Mecca accepted him as a Prophet, but those who did, knew that he was a trustworthy person in all his life, and he never said lies. Anyway, since there was few number of Muslims living among big number of non-Muslims, they had to bear all kinds of torture and insult from the non-Muslims. Some of them were killed when they refused to change their beliefs. There were many attempts to kill Prophet Muhammad to prevent him from delivering his message. It was impossible for the few Muslims to start any war against them. At that time, the Quran was telling the Muslims to be patient, 41:34. Repel (Evil) with what is better , 73:10. And have patience with what they say, and leave them with noble (dignity).

But when the number of Muslims started to grow, and Muslims left Mecca and went to Medina, where Prophet Muhammad established the Islamic regime, the Quran began to tell Muslims to fight those infidels who had so many plans to destroy Islam. We are actually proud of those Muslims who were willing to sacrifice themselves so that Islam reaches us today. Muslims had to fight the infidels that time, because if the Muslims were killed, Islam would not exist anymore.

The Bible states:

(Matthew 5:39-42) 39 But I tell you, don’t resist him who is evil; but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 If anyone sues you to take away your coat, let him have your cloak also. 41 Whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and don’t turn away him who desires to borrow from you.

Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse.

(Luke 6:27-28) 27 “But I tell you who hear: love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, and pray for those who mistreat you.

As you can probable tell, they are much different.

I think I also can put some nice verses of Quran with some violence verses of the Bible!

Also I understand that those who were with Jesus wrote the Bible (only about 20 years after the death of Jesus writting by Mark, Matthew, John, Peter, etc.). In the Koran, who was with Jesus to write down his words? (And also I would like to bring it to your attention that the earliest copy of the found of the Koran is 750 AD, more than 700 years after the death of Jesus).

The companions of Prophet Muhammad used to write down the verses of Quran when Prophet Muhammad taught them what was inspired to him by God through Angel Gabriel. But after the death of Prophet Muhammad, Muslims found it necessary to gather the whole Quran together.

Again, I do not wish to fight. I am simply stating my beliefs/thoughts and I really want to hear your beliefs/thoughts as well!!! Please do not feel as though I am trying to destroy your beliefs.. Because that is the last of my intentions

I understand that, and I think it is nice to exchange our beliefs.

 

[Maryam]

Maryam, I think I understand what you are saying. It may seem almost blasphemous to a Muslim, but Christians have 100% certainty of salvation by having faith in Jesus and His sacrifice for our sins. I would love for you to know 100% that you have salvation.

But I don’t want to have this certainty that I am saved, and then find out in the Day of Judgment that I will be judged for my deeds, it will be too late to repent then. I believe in Jesus Christ as a beloved Prophet, but I believe that he did never ask people to believe in him as god. Non of the Prophets of God came to ask people to believe in them as gods. They all asked people to worship God without associating partners with God Almighty.

I pulled some excerpts from the Koran. Now, I realize I’m not reading the whole Koran, and it’s easy (as with the Bible) for someone outside the faith to take certain quotes out of context. I also have to admit, that many of the things I read support your statement that Allah calls his believers to exert force when they or their land is taken by force. But these lines seem to imply killing unbelievers who don’t necessarily take their land or attack them. But, I’m happy to listen if you can make sense of them or put them into context which doesn’t imply this.

From the Koran:

O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end. - 9:73

As I said in the previous post, there are many verses of Quran that you can’t understand unless you know the reason of sending them, and for whom they were sent.
This verse for example:

Quran 9
73. O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.
74. They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.

God sent these verse to tell Prophet Muhammad to fight the hypocrites who say that they are Muslims, but do things against Islam, and have hatred toward Muslims. Muslims believe that the hypocrites are the worst.

4:142. The Hypocrites, they think they are over-reaching Allah but He will over-reach them: when they stand up to prayer, they stand without earnestness, to be seen of men, but little do they hold Allah in remembrance;
4:145. The Hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the Fire; no helper wilt thou find for them.

Fight those who believe neither in God nor the Last Day, nor what has been forbidden by God and his messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, even if they are People of the Book, until they pay the tribute and have been humbled. - 9:29

This is one of the verses that show that Muslims were not asked to kill non-Muslims if they were peaceful. The non-Muslims who lived in the Muslim land were asked to pay the tribute (jizya) if they wanted to stay there. And since the non-Muslims were not asked to fight with the Muslims in the wars to protect the land of the Muslims, they had to pay an amount of money for living there.

When you meet the unbelievers, smite their necks, then when you have made wide slaughter among them, tie fast the bonds, then set them free, either by grace or ransom, until the war lays down its burdens. - 47:4

God teaches Muslims how to fight in the battlefield.

Maryam, you are clearly a beautiful person who finds hope from their faith and reject violence. And I know there are many Muslims who share your nonviolent stance. This makes all the violence so hard to understand. I know it is trite to say and cliché, but you understand those that attack innocent civilians and children in the name of Allah make it difficult to trust anyone of the faith, especially when there is so much talk about violence in the Koran. Even more trite and cliché is to ask, “Why do the leaders of the faith not take every opportunity to denounce terrorism?†I know there have been some terrible periods in Christendom’s history, like with the Christian Crusades, but in looking at modern times, I can’t think of mass murders (or even single murders) which were in the name of Christianity that weren’t denounced by our most prominent figures. I can't think of any Christian mass-murders, but I’ll take an example of a twisted person who takes it upon himself to murder an abortionist. This is responded to by the Christian community with repulsion and admonished. Why would Muslims all over the earth denounce terrorism if even to clear the faith of having any responsibility for their actions?

I see that Muslim leaders do denounce the killing of innocent people by those who call themselves Muslims, but maybe this is not highlighted in your media. Even in Mecca, in what we call it “Friday prayer speech†Muslim clerks denounce the violence toward innocent people. It is nothing to do with the teaching of Islam to go and bomb yourself among non-Muslims to kill them, this is actually against Islam. But as you might see, even Muslims are victims of the daily blasts in Iraq, Pakistan .. etc. Does Islam say go and kill Muslims? Of course not, but I actually don’t understand how these people think.

 

[Mike]

Thanks Maryam

I was anxious to get your thoughts

 

[Maryam]

Maryam, you should take the time to read through to the end my thread about Allah.

mdo757,

My God IS the God of Abraham, and I understand why Christians find it difficult to admit that.

Quran 2:
130. And who turns away from the religion of Abraham but such as debase their souls with folly? Him We chose and rendered pure in this world: And he will be in the Hereafter in the ranks of the Righteous.
131. Behold! his Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to Me):" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe."
132. And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh my sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam."
133. Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (True) Allah. To Him we bow (in Islam)."
134. That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case!
135. They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."
136. Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
137. So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in schism; but Allah will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.
138. (Our religion is) the Baptism of Allah. And who can baptize better than Allah. And it is He Whom we worship.
139. Say: Will ye dispute with us about Allah, seeing that He is our Lord and your Lord; that we are responsible for our doings and ye for yours; and that We are sincere (in our faith) in Him?
140. Or do ye say that Abraham, Isma'il Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah. Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah. but Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!

 

[Faithful4Christ]

Maryam, Thanks for understanding that, it is nice to exchange our beliefs.

However, I still don't see how you don't see anything wrong with those verses.. I understand that Islam would not exist if it wasn't for this, but would you follow these verses?

IT's so crazy how we can both be so sure our religions are the Truth! One of us is wrong... Just weird to think about... Isn't it? haha

I would love to know what country you live in, and if Islam is the main religion there!

(also, I have completely no idea if this is true or not, but many times I have heard that Prophet Muhammad became suicidal after meeting Gabriel saying that he would throw himself off a mountain. However, whenever he got to the top Gabriel would calm him saying "O Muhammad you are a prophet of God." Or something along those lines.) - I have NO IDEA in the slightest lol if that is true but I'm just wondering if you have heard of this before.

 

[Maryam]

However, I still don't see how you don't see anything wrong with those verses.. I understand that Islam would not exist if it wasn't for this, but would you follow these verses?

I believe in every single word in Quran, because it is the word of God.

IT's so crazy how we can both be so sure our religions are the Truth! One of us is wrong... Just weird to think about... Isn't it? haha

Yes, but in my deep heart, I always have the feeling that people who are not following the truth must have some doubts in their faith. You might disagree with me, but this is how I feel!

I would love to know what country you live in, and if Islam is the main religion there!

I live in the United Arab Emirates, and Islam is the main religion here. There are more than 200 nationalities living in the UAE, especially in my city, Dubai. Thanks to God, people with different nationalities and beliefs live together in harmony in the UAE.

(also, I have completely no idea if this is true or not, but many times I have heard that Prophet Muhammad became suicidal after meeting Gabriel saying that he would throw himself off a mountain. However, whenever he got to the top Gabriel would calm him saying "O Muhammad you are a prophet of God." Or something along those lines.) - I have NO IDEA in the slightest lol if that is true but I'm just wondering if you have heard of this before.

This is the first time that I hear this story! Prophet Muhammad was afraid when Angel Gabriel came to him first, but he did not try to commit suicide! He went directly to his wife Khadijah, and she was the one who clamed him down.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Maryam, you should take the time to read through to the end of my thread about Allah.

mdo757,

My God IS the God of Abraham, and I understand why Christians find it difficult to admit that.

Why do I get the feeling that you did not read through my comments that, "Allah is not the God of Abraham." Allah has always been a Pagan god. What about all of the facts that I posted?

 

[Faithful4Christ]

Never do I fully doubt my religion, Maryam, but without doubt there is no faith. I have a question for you to consider. Why do you believe what was written 700 years after Jesus Christ when there are accounts written 20 years after Him? His apostles, in my religion, wrote down His miracles and claims to be God in flesh and then were martyred because of their faith and what they had written. Why would you die for something you know not to be true? All of them? Humans are too greedy and selfish to die for a lie. Peter was crucified upside down, Paul and John the Baptist beheaded, Andrew crucified on a x shaped cross.. Again, I just want to see how you answer this. Thanks for sharing your religion with me Maryam.

 

[Maryam]

Never do I fully doubt my religion, Maryam, but without doubt there is no faith. I have a question for you to consider. Why do you believe what was written 700 years after Jesus Christ when there are accounts written 20 years after Him? His apostles, in my religion, wrote down His miracles and claims to be God in flesh and then were martyred because of their faith and what they had written. Why would you die for something you know not to be true? All of them? Humans are too greedy and selfish to die for a lie. Peter was crucified upside down, Paul and John the Baptist beheaded, Andrew crucified on a x shaped cross.. Again, I just want to see how you answer this. Thanks for sharing your religion with me Maryam.

I don’t know about you, but I actually have 0 doubt in my faith.

The Quran that we have is the original Quran, in the Arabic language, the same as sent from God, without corruption.
But as I know, the Bible was revised many times, and you might not even have the original text.
It is different when you read a book where the source is God, and a book where the sources are some witnesses, human binges.
And if the Bible was written 20 years after Prophet Jesus, then the Quran was collected right after the death of Prophet Muhammad.
------------

Well, I think I also need some clarification about Christianity and the Bible. I don’t know a lot about your faith, but sometimes I read things that don’t make sense to me, and I wonder if they make sense to you?

There are many verses in the Bible that tell you that you cannot see God, but if you believe Jesus is god, then many people have seen god! I don’t understand that!
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Timothy 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen.
------------

Joh n 14:28 - Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I."
How can Jesus be god when he says that the father (or God) is greater than him!
Does it mean that he is god, but not as great as God Almighty.
It is confusing!
--------

Christians believe that Prophet Jesus was crucified, and he came to life after three days. Does God die?!

----------

John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God."
If Prophet Jesus says that, it means he himself worshiped God Almighty, how can god worships god? Again, I don’t understand it!
-------------

As I know that the word ‘trinity’ is not mentioned in the OT, and maybe it is not mentioned in the NT either, isn’t that strange!
Ironically, the Quran does mention the trinity.
4: 171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

5: 73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

 

[Tina]

The Quran that we have is the original Quran, in the Arabic language, the same as sent from God, without corruption.

Did your god threw it down from your heaven ?

But as I know, the Bible was revised many times, and you might not even have the original text.

Revised many times ? How many times ?

Is this an assumption or is this a fact ??? From what sources did you arrive at this theory ?

It is different when you read a book where the source is God, and a book where the sources are some witnesses, human binges.

witness, or witnesses ? .... I thought it was solely based on one man's account, who initially claimed that he was demon possessed and wanted to commit suicide, but later changed his mind and decided that he was a prophet !

The Bible on the other hand, is based on hundreds and thousands of first-hand eye-wtnessess accounts.

And if the Bible was written 20 years after Prophet Jesus, then the Quran was collected right after the death of Prophet Muhammad.

False assumption ... AGAIN !!!

The Biblical scriptures were written as and when God spoke starting from the Old Testament.

The Quran? Nobody even knows who wrote it !!

Christians believe that Prophet Jesus was crucified, and he came to life after three days. Does God die?!

John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God."
If Prophet Jesus says that, it means he himself worshiped God Almighty, how can god worships god? Again, I don’t understand it!

Joh n 14:28 - Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I."

How can Jesus be god when he says that the father (or God) is greater than him!
Does it mean that he is god, but not as great as God Almighty.

It is confusing!

You are confused because you haven't obviously studied the entire Bible in its context.
The following passage answers your questions.


Philippians 2:5-11
Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death — even death on a cross! Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

As I know that the word ‘trinity’ is not mentioned in the OT, and maybe it is not mentioned in the NT either, isn’t that strange!
Ironically, the Quran does mention the trinity.

4: 171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

5: 73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. ...

And your point is ....... ??

Since when did Christians worship a god called "Trinity"?

We worship no such god. Neither do we teach that God is one of three in a Trinity. Just because we use a generic term to describe Father, Son and Holy Spirit, it does not make trinity a false doctrine.

 

[Faithful4Christ]

Never do I fully doubt my religion, Maryam, but without doubt there is no faith. I have a question for you to consider. Why do you believe what was written 700 years after Jesus Christ when there are accounts written 20 years after Him? His apostles, in my religion, wrote down His miracles and claims to be God in flesh and then were martyred because of their faith and what they had written. Why would you die for something you know not to be true? All of them? Humans are too greedy and selfish to die for a lie. Peter was crucified upside down, Paul and John the Baptist beheaded, Andrew crucified on a x shaped cross.. Again, I just want to see how you answer this. Thanks for sharing your religion with me Maryam.

I don’t know about you, but I actually have 0 doubt in my faith.

now I know you know that's not true.. On an earlier post you stated "how can I be 100 percent sure I'm right." or something like that. Besides doubt is part of faith. Without one you can not have the other.

The Quran that we have is the original Quran, in the Arabic language, the same as sent from God, without corruption.
But as I know, the Bible was revised many times, and you might not even have the original text.
It is different when you read a book where the source is God, and a book where the sources are some witnesses, human binges.
And if the Bible was written 20 years after Prophet Jesus, then the Quran was collected right after the death of Prophet Muhammad.

Too true, the Bible has been translated many times. I have thought about this and am learning Hebrew, and Greek, it's original texts. I have a teacher that has read the original text as well As the current English version and he has verified that nothing has really changed at all. Sure, a few words are switched around but the same meaning is there all the same. The source is God in the NT as well. It is not the work of man but the work of the Holy Spirit working through man. (it says this many times, and I will get verses if you would like later). What the Quran says about Jesus is much different than the BIble. The NT was written while Jesus was here, and therefore would be much more accurate than 700 years or so later. (although I know you believe it is God's words through Prophet Muhammad so it really doesn't matter what I say.)
------------

Well, I think I also need some clarification about Christianity and the Bible. I don’t know a lot about your faith, but sometimes I read things that don’t make sense to me, and I wonder if they make sense to you?

There are many verses in the Bible that tell you that you cannot see God, but if you believe Jesus is god, then many people have seen god! I don’t understand that!
John 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father's side, has made him known.
John 5:37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form,
Exodus 33:20 But," he said, "you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live."
Timothy 6:16 who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To him be honor and might forever. Amen

.

This is correct, no one has seen the Father. Only the Son. Through His son, Jesus, God is known. Jesus once said, "I am the truth, the way, and the life, no one goes to the Father except through Me." Since we believe Jesus is God in flesh, we have been able to see him, physically see him. However the Father's power is too great. Like Timothy said He lives in an unapproachable light. His power is too great for us even to approach Him. His glory overwhelmes us so much we fall to our knees before Him. (by the way I am only touching on these things because I am on my phone. Once I get my computer I will help you out more)
------------

Joh n 14:28 - Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I."
How can Jesus be god when he says that the father (or God) is greater than him!
Does it mean that he is god, but not as great as God Almighty.
It is confusing!

Jesus says this because He gives Glory to His Father just as the Father gives glory to His Son (Jesus). They are the same, but different. It does not mean that the Son is not as Great as the Father, just that he loves complimenting and praising the Father just as we do! Just like the Father loves complimenting and praising Jesus like we do. ( again i will go more in depth later, the Trinity is a tricky thing)
--------

Christians believe that Prophet Jesus was crucified, and he came to life after three days. Does God die?!

When He is a human man dieing for our sins He does. Jesus loved us so much He took the death that we deserve... Sure He couldve backed away and not let himself die, but He didn't. He is my Savior, for without Him I would not be cleansed of my sins. Even while being hammered to the cross Jesus said, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do."


----------

John 20:17 - "I ascend to My Father and to your Father, My God and to your God."
If Prophet Jesus says that, it means he himself worshiped God Almighty, how can god worships god? Again, I don’t understand it!

like I said before, Jesus is God but a different part of God. Jesus worships His father because of the love He has for His father. ***I would love to get in this discussion with you when I get my computer!!****
-------------

As I know that the word ‘trinity’ is not mentioned in the OT, and maybe it is not mentioned in the NT either, isn’t that strange!
Ironically, the Quran does mention the trinity.
4: 171. O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

5: 73. They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.

I don't know what you are getting at but just because the Bible doesn't use the word Trinity it definately teaches it. Look at Matt. 28:19 and Jude 20-21. The very fact that the Quran says not to believe in it means that the entire NT was written before it. It might be blasphemy to you, but how is calling God (Jesus) blashemy to me? I need sone help with what you are trying to get at here. Hopefully I get my computer soon so we can talk about this better!!

 

[Maryam]

Dear Tina, you did not answer any of my questions!

 

[Tina]

Dear Tina, you did not answer any of my questions!

What questions did I not answer ?

 

[Mike]

Dear Tina, you did not answer any of my questions!

Maryam, first, you put a lot out there to respond to and answer. Personally, I've been thinking about your post. After the length of this thread I'm trying to consider your reasons for posing the questions. You have your mind made up and have rejected the life saving Gospel. If you were seeking answers, I would spend all the time you needed to work with you through these issues. I'm not trying to be argumentative. It's just my observation.

One of the things I battle is the urge to try over and over again to convince someone who has rejected Jesus' sacrifice and our only means of salvation. But I'm sticking to our directive. We're to share the Gospel and leave in the Holy Spirit's fully capable hands to change your heart.

We've shared a number of exchanges in this thread. I'm just speaking for me when I say, you've been told the Truth. There's nothing more that I can do than for you.

You are loved by the One True God. I hope one day you accept His Love!

 

[Maryam]

now I know you know that's not true.. On an earlier post you stated "how can I be 100 percent sure I'm right." or something like that. Besides doubt is part of faith. Without one you can not have the other.

I said earlier that a Muslim can’t be 100% sure that he/she is saved, but I never said that I doubt my faith. Interesting that you don’t believe me when I say I have no doubt in my faith. You are proving that my feeling is true when I say that those who are not following the truth must have doubt in their faith.

2:2. This is the Book; in it is guidance sure, without doubt, to those who fear Allah.
10: 37. This Qur'an is not such as can be produced by other than Allah. on the contrary it is a confirmation of (revelations) that went before it, and a fuller explanation of the Book - wherein there is no doubt - from the Lord of the worlds.

This is correct, no one has seen the Father. Only the Son. Through His son, Jesus, God is known. Jesus once said, "I am the truth, the way, and the life, no one goes to the Father except through Me." Since we believe Jesus is God in flesh, we have been able to see him, physically see him. However the Father's power is too great. Like Timothy said He lives in an unapproachable light. His power is too great for us even to approach Him. His glory overwhelmes us so much we fall to our knees before Him. (by the way I am only touching on these things because I am on my phone. Once I get my computer I will help you out more)

You are talking as if God is not Jesus, are they both one, or they are two?
No one has seen the father, but they saw the son. But if the father and the son are one, that means if I see the son, I also see the father!

Jesus says this because He gives Glory to His Father just as the Father gives glory to His Son (Jesus). They are the same, but different. It does not mean that the Son is not as Great as the Father, just that he loves complimenting and praising the Father just as we do! Just like the Father loves complimenting and praising Jesus like we do. ( again i will go more in depth later, the Trinity is a tricky thing)

Well, I think I need some clarification about the trinity. I need to know if God=Jesus? If yes, that means Jesus says that he is greater than himself?!

When He is a human man dieing for our sins He does. Jesus loved us so much He took the death that we deserve... Sure He couldve backed away and not let himself die, but He didn't. He is my Savior, for without Him I would not be cleansed of my sins. Even while being hammered to the cross Jesus said, "Forgive them Father, they know not what they do."

So Jesus asked God to forgive them, so God has the power to do that, not Jesus, right?

like I said before, Jesus is God but a different part of God. Jesus worships His father because of the love He has for His father. ***I would love to get in this discussion with you when I get my computer!!****

A different part of God? Are they equal parts?

I don't know what you are getting at but just because the Bible doesn't use the word Trinity it definately teaches it. Look at Matt. 28:19 and Jude 20-21. The very fact that the Quran says not to believe in it means that the entire NT was written before it. It might be blasphemy to you, but how is calling God (Jesus) blashemy to me? I need sone help with what you are trying to get at here. Hopefully I get my computer soon so we can talk about this better!!

I am saying maybe you were not asked to believe in the trinity which was not mentioned in the Bible! The verses of the Bible that I mentioned earlier show me that Jesus is talking about God as a higher power, the Lord that is greater than anything else. In many verses in the Bible, it seems that the relation between Jesus and God is the relation between a Prophet and his Lord!

 

[Faithful4Christ]

Haha, sorry about this.. accidental post.

 

[Maryam]

What you said, "you can't be 100 percent sure" is the very definition of doubt.. You seem to think that I doubt my religion more than you. This is possible, however I don't think it is true. I can not say that I don't doubt my religion even if I have not doubted it 99.9999999999999 percent of the time.

Sometimes, my small amount doubt brings me closer to my Lord Jesus. It makes me ask questions and find the answers. It makes me pray more for answers and wisdom. You also do not get that you CANT have faith without doubt. Without any doubt, it is not faith; because you KNOW FOR CERTAIN. Do you understand that?

Mmm, I don’t know if you get it, but I am trying to say that I have no doubt that I am following the true religion. I am not sure if I will enter Paradise because this is for God to decide. I also don’t know enough about my religion. I also ask questions and get answers that make me closer to God. But I know for sure that I am following the true religion. And I am saying that it is impossible for all people of all religions to be very sure that they are following the truth because it is the mercy of God that those who are not following the truth doubt their faiths.

You are thinking with your mind closed. JESUS AND GOD ARE ONE, but two.

I try to open my mind, but I still don’t get it lol.
Is it that I am so stupid that I don’t get it, or the idea is stupid that cannot be understood?!

If I have a banana, and cut in half, and I set one peice in front of you, and the other in the refrigerator. You can see the one in front of you, but not the one in the refrigerator. Does this mean they are not the same banana?

Haha, yes, but in this case you can’t say one part of the banana tastes better than the other part lol
But you see, Jesus says God is greater than him. He also asks God to forgive the people who crucified him. Why didn’t he say “I forgive you “since he is god!



Faithful4Christ, I really appreciate your effort to help me understand your faith, but I actually feel much happier to believe in the Unity of God instead of the trinity! I know in my heart that I love Jesus more that you do, but as a Prophet of God, in the way God wants us to believe in him. And we also believe in the miracles of Prophet Jesus.
5: 110. Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the holy spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel and behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'


I think all of us have to ask God to guide us to the truth. As Muslims, we pray five times a day (the mandatory prayers), and in those prayers, we say the below verses 17 times everyday, so that God may guide us to the straight way.

Surah 1. The Opening
1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds;
3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful;
4. Master of the Day of Judgment.
5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek.
6. Show us the straight way,
7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray.