Are unbelievers resurrected?

[theWind]

Are unbelievers resurrected? Yes.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

None of that specifies unbelievers being resurrected.

Verse 15 shows those whose names were, at one time, written in the Book of Life and have now been blotted out.

Names are written in the Book when we are saved and quickened. That is showing believers/Christians who have been resurrected and are now being rejected.

There are many other end times passages in the Bible that completely contradict the common interpretation of Rev. 20. How do we reconcile that?

 

[theWind]

That’s what I say. All genuine believers are in a state of salvation. They are kept by God through their faith (1Peter 1:5). They would have to go back to unbelief to be damned. Only unbelievers are damned.

That's just not what the Bible teaches, friend.

2 Peter 2:21
Rev. 3:5
Matt. 7:21-23
John 15:2-6

John 5:29 demonstrates one resurrection ... with two outcomes for those resurrected.

If somebody has not been quickened, or given eternal spiritual life, they are spiritually dead and have no component for God to raise them with.
James 2:26

 

[theWind]

It isn’t different.

The completed but ongoing intercessory Ministry and Sacrifice of Christ is received and retained through faith. Assuming it’s possible, the saved believer who stops believing can not keep the benefit of that which he no longer believes and trusts in

Then how do you explain this verse in a way that aligns with that idea?

2 Pet. 2:21

It says clearly that these are those who turned away from the Salvation that was once theirs.

How is it that they are now going to suffer more in their judgment/punishment than if they'd never known the way of righteousness?

Those who never receive faith, and never knew the way of righteousness, are simply destroyed by death at the end of their lives. Those who have been saved, learned God's Ways and then threw it all away are punished much greater.

There's no other way to interpret that. You can't use the tired ol' rebuttal of "they were never really saved" - that just doesn't work with the text at all.

 

[theWind]

the fact there is more than one resurrection

Still waiting on the term "Second Resurrection" from somewhere within the pages of Scripture.

Bold statement calling it a fact when you have nothing at all for a proof text.

and the Bible says not to be deceived about the fact that the people living in sin you say are believers are actually not believers (1 John 3:7-10).

What is sin? Can you define that Biblically for me, please, using Scripture?

Whether they ever were or not is not the point.

It's actually exactly the point as this thread is about unbelievers not being resurrected.

The point is their wicked unrepentant lifestyle shows them to be unbelievers, not believing wicked people as you contend.

It's strange to me that you seem convinced that saved, believing Christians are not capable of sinning.

The Bible strongly disagrees with you.

 

[theWind]

And where is that labelled as sin? Or even not wise? Jesus based many of his parables off of one passage from the Scriptures, back then they didn't have deep concordiances and thorough cross-references. As long as it doesn't contradict the Bible or it's main message, it's fine. Again like bestiality being a sin, which is only mentioned once in the entire Bible has no cross references, so does that make it unusable? No!

Again, do you find Scripture that appears to contradict it? Ok, so how is it relevant to this discussion?

The point is that if somebody makes doctrine out of a single piece of Scripture, and there are multiple other verses that contradict it, then that is what is called unsound doctrine.

That wasn't pointing out a contradiction that was backing my case that both believers and unbelievers will be ressurected, just ressurected to different places. John 5:29 says it most plainly.

I have given multiple verses that plainly state what it takes to be saved; that one must be quickened by God in order to have the spiritual life within them that allows for them to be resurrected.

Do you believe that every single person in the world has this quickening no matter what?

How then do you reconcile the fact that Jesus teaches this necessary component for Salvation, yet you claim that component is not necessary at all?

First you ask me to find Scripture, I find Scripture, then you say elsewhere Scripture. Like i told someone else since he rejected James, just because it doesn't align with your views doesn't mean the Bible is invalid. No passage of Scripture needs your stamp of approval or anyones stamp of approval.

I don't understand what this is about.

It's not up to me if a doctrine aligns with the Bible or not. It is an inherent fact that is does, or does not.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

No, but he's speaking to those who have been quickened with spiritual life and their old man has passed away.

That supports the concept of all who are resurrected having been quickened.

He said, "the hour is now... when the dead will hear....and they will live." So, the dead were not alive yet.

 

[theWind]

1. You changed your case from "unbelievers will not be ressurected because they are spiritually dead" to "many will be raised not all". Find a foundation my guy .

I haven't changed anything, they mean the exact same thing.

Many will be raised, not all. All would include unbelievers. Many demonstrates that there will be a certain number who are not resurrected. All coincides perfectly with the OP and title claim.

What you are proposing has been refuted in Daniel 12:2, Acts 24:15, John 5:29,1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Revelation 20:1-15. Now of course not all will be raised because common sense is that some will be physically alive during that time, and will be raised to heaven after the dead. 1 Thessalonians backs that up.

It is referring to those who are physically dead at the time, not those who are still physically alive. Some are unbelievers, some are believers.

And most of the Scriptures you post to support you are reaching at best, like Proverbs 21:16. And 2 Peter 2:21, I wonder how that is relevant to the upcoming ressurection?

It's extremely relevant as it shows that some believers who are resurrected will be punished horribly for turning from the Faith.

Supports the OP perfectly.

You posted a question and we are giving you answer, did you come to be open-minded or to buckle down on your opinion?

Who here has even considered the concept presented by me?

Each and every one of you has challenged and refuted it.

Who is not being open-minded? Me or you?

 

[Free]

None of that specifies unbelievers being resurrected.

Verse 15 shows those whose names were, at one time, written in the Book of Life and have now been blotted out.

Names are written in the Book when we are saved and quickened. That is showing believers/Christians who have been resurrected and are now being rejected.

It cannot be understood apart from everyone having been resurrected and only those who died in unbelief are thrown into the lake of fire.

First, it needs to be pointed out that "it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgement" (ESV). So, once a person dies, they face judgement for whatever spiritual state they were in when they died. Nothing changes after they are dead.

Then, in Rev 20, we see that both great and small, those in the sea and those who were in Death and Hades, are removed from those locations and stand before God. The whole point is that all the dead are raised for judgement. Verse 15, then, shows that those whose names were "not found in written in the book of life," were "thrown into the lake of fire." That can only mean unbelievers.

This is supported by Jesus:

Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice
Joh 5:29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. (ESV)

It is again repeated by Paul in Acts:

Act 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. (ESV)

There are many other end times passages in the Bible that completely contradict the common interpretation of Rev. 20. How do we reconcile that?

There are? I can't recall one.

 

[theWind]

He said, "the hour is now... when the dead will hear....and they will live." So, the dead were not alive yet.

The dead in Christ will hear.

Not those who are not His sheep. They will not hear Him at all and will thus not rise at His coming.

"...ye believe not because ye are not of My sheep, ... My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me."
John 10:26-27

"Why do ye not understand My speech: even because ye cannot hear My word. ... He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not because ye are not of God."
John 8:43, 47

 

[theWind]

First, it needs to be pointed out that "it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgement" (ESV). So, once a person dies, they face judgement for whatever spiritual state they were in when they died. Nothing changes after they are dead.

That verse Heb. 9:27 doesn't state that unbelievers will be resurrected, and you might find it interesting that the verse immediately following says this in reference to Christ's second coming: " ... unto them that look for Him .... shall He appear the second time." Heb. 9:28

Hmmm. Pretty interesting.

Unbelievers will not be looking/watching for Christ, and they are not capable of hearing Him - nor are they quickened in order to be raised.

Then, in Rev 20, we see that both great and small, those in the sea and those who were in Death and Hades, are removed from those locations and stand before God. The whole point is that all the dead are raised for judgement. Verse 15, then, shows that those whose names were "not found in written in the book of life," were "thrown into the lake of fire." That can only mean unbelievers.

I am really repeating myself here. None of that specifies unbelievers being resurrected; and those not found written in the book does not only mean unbelievers.

Rev. 3:5 shows that some believers are blotted out of the Book for their transgressions or turning from the Faith.

You can't fight the Scriptures.

This is supported by Jesus:

Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice

Dan. 12:2 Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will be raised. Not all.

Joh 5:29 and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. (ESV)

It is again repeated by Paul in Acts:

Act 24:15 having a hope in God, which these men themselves accept, that there will be a resurrection of both the just and the unjust. (ESV)

Christians who have done good will be resurrected to life, Christians who have done evil will be resurrected to judgment.

The just and unjust speaks of Christians.

There are? I can't recall one.

I find that hard to believe as you claim to be a long-time teacher of the Scriptures.

Maybe these will jog your memory.
2 Pet. 3:20
2 Thess. 1:7-9
Mal. 4:1
Nah. 1:5
Isaiah 13:9-11
Zech. 1:14-15, 18
Zech. 3:8

They all contradict Rev. 20 and a Second Resurrection as the earth will be completely destroyed by fire on the Last Day - the day that Christ returns and gathers His people and raises the quickened dead.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Then the Dead are.... DEAD? Not living?

Their bodies are dead.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There are many verses in the Bible that say otherwise, but I'm not engaging in OSAS in this thread - as much as I can help it.

1 John 3:8-10 shows us that your 'believer' living in the wickedness of unrepentant, willful sin is not a believer at all but rather a child of the evil one. And it has nothing to do with OSAS.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The dead in Christ will hear.

Not those who are not His sheep. They will not hear Him at all and will thus not rise at His coming.

"...ye believe not because ye are not of My sheep, ... My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me."
John 10:26-27

"Why do ye not understand My speech: even because ye cannot hear My word. ... He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not because ye are not of God."
John 8:43, 47

He also said,

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. Lk.13:28

The dead in Christ will hear.

Not those who are not His sheep. They will not hear Him at all and will thus not rise at His coming.

"...ye believe not because ye are not of My sheep, ... My sheep hear My voice and I know them and they follow Me."
John 10:26-27

"Why do ye not understand My speech: even because ye cannot hear My word. ... He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not because ye are not of God."
John 8:43, 47

They heard him. They didn't understand him. The point our Savior was making, is that if the religious leaders really believed what God said, they would have heard (or understood) what he was saying,

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out. Lk.13:28

 

[Rookie]

Again, do you find Scripture that appears to contradict it? Ok, so how is it relevant to this discussion?

The point is that if somebody makes doctrine out of a single piece of Scripture, and there are multiple other verses that contradict it, then that is what is called unsound doctrine.

I have given multiple verses that plainly state what it takes to be saved; that one must be quickened by God in order to have the spiritual life within them that allows for them to be resurrected.

Do you believe that every single person in the world has this quickening no matter what?

How then do you reconcile the fact that Jesus teaches this necessary component for Salvation, yet you claim that component is not necessary at all?

I don't understand what this is about.

It's not up to me if a doctrine aligns with the Bible or not. It is an inherent fact that is does, or does not.

1. I already did, but you seem to intentionally ignore it, although I posted it twice.

2. However, it's your understanding that contradicts Scripture, Scripture never contradicts itself.

3. For the umpteenth time the Resurrection of the dead in the End Times, is different from the saving of the soul from sin. The End Times ressurection is so both good and evil will be judged by God, and anyone who isn't found in the Lambs book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire, and whoever is will inherit God's Kingdom. It's like everyone who ever live will go to a courtroom with God as the judge. Revelation makes it clear that the dead apart from Christ will rise after the 1000 year reign. But the dead in Christ will rise first and reign. Again your understanding contradicts plain Scripture, which you so happened to keep ignoring.

4. Never said that because saving our souls from sin isn't labelled biblically as ressurection. As we are all born in sin and shaped in iniquity, so to ressurect is to bring back to life and we weren't even alive at first at all. And going by your doctrine why would those in Christ need to be ressurected when the Spirit has already given them life?

5. Because the Resurrection of the literal dead on Judgement day is different from salvation of the spiritual soul from sin. On Judgement day there WILL be no chance for salvation, it'll be too late. Once you breath your last your chances for salvation are up if you aren't saved.

 

[Rookie]

I haven't changed anything, they mean the exact same thing.

Many will be raised, not all. All would include unbelievers. Many demonstrates that there will be a certain number who are not resurrected. All coincides perfectly with the OP and title claim.

It is referring to those who are physically dead at the time, not those who are still physically alive. Some are unbelievers, some are believers.

It's extremely relevant as it shows that some believers who are resurrected will be punished horribly for turning from the Faith.

Supports the OP perfectly.

Who here has even considered the concept presented by me?

Each and every one of you has challenged and refuted it.

Who is not being open-minded? Me or you?

1. Ok buddy

2. It's you who added in the filter of many meaning believers and all meaning unbelievers too, adding personal filters ruins the divinity of the Word of God.

3. Exactly, and that's you're whole point, that the dead unbelievers will not be raised at all. In those verses and in Revelation the dead in Christ will rise first, the ones physically alive in Christ next, then after the 1000 year reign the dead not in Christ will be resurrected for judgement, and those physically alive not in Christ will go to judgement as well.

4. 2 Peter is irrelevant to that claim, but whatever you say.

5. Everyone here as far as I know has considered everything you said, found biblical standings to refute it, and are giving you their answer, I know for me I go line by line and paragraph by paragraph and address it individually and collectively. You are not pleased because we don't acquiesce to your point of view.

6. Correct, we have refuted it, I've been refuted many a time, it's called live and learn, you gotta accept that you aren't always right. Is that why you aren't please?

7. Well you're the one who posed a question, and you ask a question to receive an answer, and in order to receive something you need to be open to receiving it. I didn't ask a question so it's not my initial job, usually I'll answer and be on my way but you wanted to continue the discourse. You posed a question in which we are giving you our answer, and you don't like it so you put yourself on repeat in hopes we acquiesce to it. You won't always be right my friend, it's called real life.

 

[Free]

That verse Heb. 9:27 doesn't state that unbelievers will be resurrected,

No, but that wasn't the point. It's that we are appointed once to die, and then face judgement.

and you might find it interesting that the verse immediately following says this in reference to Christ's second coming: " ... unto them that look for Him .... shall He appear the second time." Heb. 9:28

Hmmm. Pretty interesting.

Unbelievers will not be looking/watching for Christ, and they are not capable of hearing Him - nor are they quickened in order to be raised.

No, but that is not at all the point those verses are making. There is some parallelism going on:

Heb 9:27 And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,
Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. (ESV)

Man dies once, then faces judgement. Christ was offered once, then will return to save believers. All men will face judgement, and for those who are dead, it will be after they are dead, that is, when they are raised again, otherwise they couldn't face judgement.

I am really repeating myself here.

I know the feeling.

None of that specifies unbelievers being resurrected; and those not found written in the book does not only mean unbelievers.

It's the book of life. Those whose names are not in it, are, by definition, unbelievers. It is those that get thrown into the lake of fire.

Rev. 3:5 shows that some believers are blotted out of the Book for their transgressions or turning from the Faith.

Right, which has zero bearing on those who stand before the judgement seat to hear their fate. People whose names aren't in the book of life--by definition, unbelievers--are thrown into the lake of fire.

You can't fight the Scriptures.

Exactly.

Dan. 12:2 Many who sleep in the dust of the earth will be raised. Not all.

Thanks for pointing out that verse. It is very notable that you didn't include the whole verse:

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (ESV)

That it doesn't say "all" is irrelevant, since it clearly states that some will "awake . . . to shame and everlasting contempt." That fully supports what I have already said.

Christians who have done good will be resurrected to life, Christians who have done evil will be resurrected to judgment.

The just and unjust speaks of Christians.

No. "Unjust" always refers to unbelievers, the unrighteous, the wicked. It never refers to believers.

Mat 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? (ESV)

Apart from the clear parallelism--"sun rise on the evil and on the good;" "sends rain on the just and on the unjust"--the context is of loving one's enemy, even those who persecute.

"Unjust," adikos, appears 12 times, and, at least in the KJV, is translated as "unjust" three times, "unrighteous" eight times, and "wicked" once.

I find that hard to believe as you claim to be a long-time teacher of the Scriptures.

Maybe these will jog your memory.
2 Pet. 3:20

No such verse.

2 Thess. 1:7-9
Mal. 4:1
Nah. 1:5
Isaiah 13:9-11
Zech. 1:14-15, 18
Zech. 3:8

They all contradict Rev. 20 and a Second Resurrection as the earth will be completely destroyed by fire on the Last Day - the day that Christ returns and gathers His people and raises the quickened dead.

In what way, though, do they supposedly contradict Rev 20? Did you mean to post those in this discussion? If so, you seem to be introducing a red herring as this whole discussion is about whether or not unbelievers are raised again, and none of your passages makes any reference to this. Although, if anything, Mal 4:1 and Isa 13:9-11 would support what I have said about Rev 20:11-15, by addressing the fate of the wicked.

 

[Rookie]

Rev. 3:5 shows that some believers are blotted out of the Book for their transgressions or turning from the Faith.

No it says those who overcome will not be blotted out, and as believers overcomes and unbeliever succumbs clearly no believers are thrown into the lake of fire. Those so-called believers are those who gave lip-service but who's hearts were never his (Matthew 15:8), and thus were never true believers to begin with.

 

[theWind]

1 John 3:8-10 shows us that your 'believer' living in the wickedness of unrepentant, willful sin is not a believer at all but rather a child of the evil one.

You're preaching an unbiblical doctrine that Christians are incapable of sin. The interpretation of every verse in the Bible must align with the entirety of the teachings of the Bible.

1 John 3:4 disagrees with you.

As well as Hebrews 10:26 which is speaking directly to saved Christians.

And it has nothing to do with OSAS.

Think so, huh?

Nothing to do with Once Saved Always Saved?

Ok then.

 

[theWind]

He also said,

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. Lk.13:28


They heard him. They didn't understand him. The point our Savior was making, is that if the religious leaders really believed what God said, they would have heard (or understood) what he was saying,

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God and you yourselves thrust out. Lk.13:28

Not sure what the point is of that Luke verse you posted twice was.

It supports my argument. The verses just prior to it, Luke 13:24-27, coincide perfectly with Matt. 7:21-23.

Many Christians will be rejected, many will seek to enter into the kingdom and shall not be able due to their working of iniquity (sin).

Kinda hard to make the case that these don't believe in Jesus.

 

[theWind]

For the umpteenth time

You're really worked up, angry and frustrated.

Let's take a break.