Are unbelievers resurrected?

[journeymanisnothing]

Not sure what the point is of that Luke verse you posted twice was.My point is, unbelievers will be resurrected.

The point is, the unsaved are resurrected.

It supports my argument. The verses just prior to it, Luke 13:24-27, coincide perfectly with Matt. 7:21-23.
Many Christians will be rejected, many will seek to enter into the kingdom and shall not be able due to their working of iniquity (sin).

Kinda hard to make the case that these don't believe in Jesus.

No it isn't, because our Lord taught repentance. You're describing the unrepentant. A Christian is a follower of Christ. You're describing people who don't follow him.

 

[theWind]

No, but that wasn't the point. It's that we are appointed once to die, and then face judgement.

The Day of the Lord, Wrath of God is also referred to as the judgment. Nobody needs to stand before God in some human traditional court room type scenario. They are judged when they are destroyed by fire along with the earth.

No need for resurrection.

Heb 9:28 so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him. (ESV)

Unbelievers are not eagerly waiting for Him. They will not be saved, raised, resurrected, etc. They have no life in them.

It's the book of life. Those whose names are not in it, are, by definition, unbelievers. It is those that get thrown into the lake of fire.

You're just wrong.

Those who never had their names written in the book, cannot have their names blotted out of it.

Try as you may, you cannot counter that fact.

Thanks for pointing out that verse. It is very notable that you didn't include the whole verse:

Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. (ESV)

Didn't need to. Many people will be raised, not all people. Of those Christians who are raised, some will be raised to shame and everlasting contempt.

That it doesn't say "all" is irrelevant, since it clearly states that some will "awake . . . to shame and everlasting contempt." That fully supports what I have already said.

Nope.

No. "Unjust" always refers to unbelievers, the unrighteous, the wicked. It never refers to believers.

False opinion based on no Scriptural support.

Even the demons believe and shudder. They are supremely unjust.

There are many Christians alive today who are very unjust.

Mat 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mat 5:45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
Mat 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? (ESV)

Apart from the clear parallelism--"sun rise on the evil and on the good;" "sends rain on the just and on the unjust"--the context is of loving one's enemy, even those who persecute.

"Unjust," adikos, appears 12 times, and, at least in the KJV, is translated as "unjust" three times, "unrighteous" eight times, and "wicked" once.

None of that proves a single thing about Christians not being capable of being unjust.

No such verse.

2 Pet. 3:10

In what way, though, do they supposedly contradict Rev 20? Did you mean to post those in this discussion? If so, you seem to be introducing a red herring as this whole discussion is about whether or not unbelievers are raised again, and none of your passages makes any reference to this. Although, if anything, Mal 4:1 and Isa 13:9-11 would support what I have said about Rev 20:11-15, by addressing the fate of the wicked.

I've made clear how they contradict it. You are just ignoring what I have repeatedly posted.

 

[theWind]

The point is, the unsaved are resurrected.

Impossible.

They have no quickening spiritual life in them.

No it isn't, because our Lord taught repentance. You're describing the unrepentant. A Christian is a follower of Christ. You're describing people who don't follow him.

And you believe every Christian who has ever been quickened with eternal life lives perfect, sinless lives?

You might want to start a thread on that one. Lots to discuss there.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Impossible.

They have no quickening spiritual life in them.

Neither do they while walking through this life, but they're still conscious of what's going on.

And you believe every Christian who has ever been quickened with eternal life lives perfect, sinless lives?

Over time of course. We're being conformed to his image.

 

[Free]

The Day of the Lord, Wrath of God is also referred to as the judgment. Nobody needs to stand before God in some human traditional court room type scenario. They are judged when they are destroyed by fire along with the earth.

No need for resurrection.

Except that Rev 20:11-15 clearly states that that will be the case.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done. (ESV)

I'm not sure why you're arguing against what is clearly stated.

Unbelievers are not eagerly waiting for Him. They will not be saved, raised, resurrected, etc. They have no life in them.

Of course they're not eagerly waiting for him. That goes without saying. However, it is simply a case of begging the question to say that they will not be raised/resurrected, as the verse doesn't at all address that. People die, then they face judgement. That is the whole point.

You're just wrong.

Not only is that a violation of the ToS and the rules of this forum, your stating that you think I am wrong doesn't make it so.

Those who never had their names written in the book, cannot have their names blotted out of it.

Try as you may, you cannot counter that fact.

And, yet, blotting out names has nothing to do with the context.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
...
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

Judged by "what they had done" and "if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." Very, very straightforward. You even said yourself that "Names are written in the Book when we are saved and quickened." Which means, those whose names are not written in the book are not saved. They are, by definition, not believers.

Didn't need to. Many people will be raised, not all people. Of those Christians who are raised, some will be raised to shame and everlasting contempt.

Then you don't fully understand what the Bible says about salvation. One cannot die a believer and be raised an unbeliever or be a believer and end up in the lake of fire. That is an utter contradiction. If one dies saved, they are raised saved. Period.

Christians' works will be judged, but it isn't a matter of salvation at all:

1Co 3:11 For no one can lay a foundation other than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if anyone builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw—
1Co 3:13 each one's work will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed by fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done.
1Co 3:14 If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. (ESV)

Nope.

Sure does.

False opinion based on no Scriptural support.

I gave support.

Even the demons believe and shudder. They are supremely unjust.

They believe what? That there is one God. How is your statement relevant?

There are many Christians alive today who are very unjust.

That's the fallacy of equivocation. You have to stick with the biblical definition and use of "unjust," which, as I have shown, always refers to the unrighteous. There are a lot of people that act unjustly from time to time, some more so than others, but that is not what the NT is talking about. It is someone's character that is unjust and that cannot be, by definition, a Christian.

None of that proves a single thing about Christians not being capable of being unjust.

2 Pet. 3:10

Not relevant.

I've made clear how they contradict it. You are just ignoring what I have repeatedly posted.

No, you just listed them. I haven't read anything else in this thread, but they prove nothing as they are not relevant.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I am exploring the possibility that those who do not believe in God, and have not been quickened with the Holy Spirit, will not be resurrected at all. I supplied a number of verses to make that case and continue to do so.

I don't see John 5:25 saying what you claimed.

It speaks of the dead and my Bible directs me to Col. 2:13 which clarifies that it is speaking of those who have been quickened. I have a running theory that the Bible is written to Christians. Many times there are verses that appear not to make sense if directed to all men of the world, but when we consider that God wrote the Book to His Children, to the Saints, to Christians, it then makes perfect sense.

Why Jesus says 'all' in some of these verses, it makes much more sense that He is speaking to 'all Christians', all who believe and have been quickened with the Holy Spirit.

We see in Dan. 12:2 that is reads 'many' of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

That verse is huge in this case as it specifically uses the word 'many' as opposed to 'all.'

Revelation speaks of all being judged. How can they be judged if not first resurrected?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You're preaching an unbiblical doctrine that Christians are incapable of sin.

No, that's not what 1 John 3 is about.
Christians sin. What they don't do is willfully live in sin as a matter of lifestyle. They would have to go back to unbelief to do that. Which makes them unbelievers, not Christians.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Think so, huh?

Nothing to do with Once Saved Always Saved?

Ok then.

Only if you make it about OSAS.

 

[Highway54]

The main crux of this thread is the idea that we must quickened, or receive the Holy Spirit, in order to be raised again to life. Those who are not/do not, have no spiritual life within them allowing them to be raised up again. James 2:26 refers to the Holy Spirit, not just having a common spirit. The human body, without Holy Spirit Life within it, is spiritually dead.

Unbelievers do not have that.

All who are raised will have been given Life at one point or another. Many will have turned back to their old ways and are referred to in Scripture as dogs and pigs as they returned to their vomit (sins) and their wallowing in the mud (sins).

The Bible says all of those type people, even Christians, who fall into that category, will be outside of the Kingdom of Heaven. If you are living in daily habitual sin, as a Christian, you will be resurrected and then rejected by God as Matt. 7:21-23 demonstrates. You will have your name blotted from the Book of Life (Rev. 3:5) and you will be removed from the Vine (John 15:2-6).

Dan. 12:2 says that 'many' will be raised, not all. Of those who are raised, they will be judged. What does John 3:16 say? It says those who believe will have spiritual Life. How can one be sent to an afterlife location of hell to be punished if they have no spiritual Life within them to exist in that spiritual location. Heaven and hell are spiritual destinations. We cannot exist in either place without spiritual Life to sustain us there.

Those who have never believed, will not be capable of being raised. Belief/faith is a gift from God. (Eph. 2:8; 1 Pet. 1:21; Phil. 1:29; Jude 1:3; 1 Cor. 12:9) Those who have not been given that gift of faith/belief will not be capable of John 3:16.

The Bible indicates there are basically two resurrections Wind. We can read about the first resurrection at Rev 20:6, which is about the ones you are speaking about that receive the holy spirit. They have not received that holy spirit at their resurrection, but at their baptism. They are called by many things, in Christ, anointed, holy ones, saints, etc. They are numbered in the Bible as 144,000 and they have been selected from among mankind to serve in a special capacity as Kings and Priests with Jesus in the heavenly Kingdom of God to rule over the earth.

The rest of the dead Rev 20:5 were not baptized by holy spirit but raised until Sheol/Hades is emptied. They are made up of mostly unbelievers, but will be given the chance to come to know God and choose to obey Him, or side with satan. Every human that ever lived will be given the opportunity to know and serve God sir.

Of course when Jesus returns the good news of the Kingdom will have been preached in all the inhabited earth to God's satisfaction Mat 24:14 so any who do not know or obey God at that time will be destroyed 2 Thes 1:6-9

 

[eddif]

I am exploring the possibility that those who do not believe in God, and have not been quickened with the Holy Spirit, will not be resurrected at all. I supplied a number of verses to make that case and continue to do so.

Christ in us is the quickening spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the power that allows us to be a witness.

The Father is in Heaven.

How to arrange all this is difficult.

eddif

 

[theWind]

Neither do they while walking through this life, but they're still conscious of what's going on.

????????

Over time of course. We're being conformed to his image.

You are deceived.

 

[theWind]

Revelation speaks of all being judged. How can they be judged if not first resurrected?

Many are misled as to what exactly Judgment really is.

Were the victims of the Flood not judged?

Is the Wrath of God, that comes upon the whole world to completely destroy it, not a Judgment?

It is only in prophetic, symbolic visions that Judgment appears as one standing before the Great White Throne and being dealt with as in human court proceedings. Judgment can come as death and destruction just as in the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. Those cities were Judged for their iniquity.

 

[theWind]

No, that's not what 1 John 3 is about.
Christians sin. What they don't do is willfully live in sin as a matter of lifestyle. They would have to go back to unbelief to do that. Which makes them unbelievers, not Christians.

Yes it is exactly what 1 John 3:4 is about and I love how you purposely left out the exact verse there.

Sin is the breaking of the Commandments. Plain and simple.

Again, you believe that all Christians are incapable of deliberate, willful, sin.

Please.

You are deceived.

So you are here today claiming that you never sin willfully? Sure that's what you want to go with?

You are painting yourself into a corner.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Many are misled as to what exactly Judgment really is.

Were the victims of the Flood not judged?

There is judgement here and final judgement after life. Here is reaping and sowing. There the whole deeds of a life are measured.

Is the Wrath of God that comes upon the whole world to completely destroy it not a Judgment?

No, that was on Israel for killing all the prophets sent to her and was finished in 70Ad. Why would God pour out wrath upon one unlucky generation?

It is only in prophetic, symbolic visions that Judgment appears as one standing before the Great White Throne and being dealt with as in human court proceedings.

Why do you think it’s not real? Metaphor language is not used in those passages.

Judgment can come as death and destruction just as in the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. Those cities were Judged for their iniquity.

Death comes to all, righteous and evil. That’s no judgement. Besides I know people who WANT to die. Every suicide proves this is no judgement at all. They long for it and hasten it’s coming.

 

[theWind]

The Bible indicates there are basically two resurrections Wind. We can read about the first resurrection at Rev 20:6, which is about the ones you are speaking about that receive the holy spirit. They have not received that holy spirit at their resurrection, but at their baptism. They are called by many things, in Christ, anointed, holy ones, saints, etc. They are numbered in the Bible as 144,000 and they have been selected from among mankind to serve in a special capacity as Kings and Priests with Jesus in the heavenly Kingdom of God to rule over the earth.

I agree with this partly.

Baptism into Christ is a spiritual resurrection. There is only one spiritual resurrection and only one physical resurrection.

And if you believe that the First Resurrection, as Rev. calls it, is the Baptism into Christ, where our old man dies and we are resurrected with Christ (which is correct), you have no choice but to embrace the understanding that Rev. 20 is not speaking of a Millennium to come after Christ's return. It is speaking of a not-literal 1,000 year time period from the time that Christ's kingdom begins, around the time of Matt. 28:18 and Pentecost, and ends when He turns His kingdom over to the Father upon His return in 1 Cor. 15:24.

The 144,000 is also not a literal number.

The rest of the dead Rev 20:5 were not baptized by holy spirit but raised until Sheol/Hades is emptied. They are made up of mostly unbelievers, but will be given the chance to come to know God and choose to obey Him, or side with satan. Every human that ever lived will be given the opportunity to know and serve God sir.

Christ tells us 6 times in the book of John that He comes on the Last Day of the world to resurrect all that have come to Him. There's just no getting around that. There are no days after a Last Day. That means that the physical resurrection that takes place on that day is the only physical resurrection. Nobody will be resurrected at a later time.

Are unbelievers resurrected? Not according to anything the Bible teaches, no, they are not.

Of course when Jesus returns the good news of the Kingdom will have been preached in all the inhabited earth to God's satisfaction Mat 24:14 so any who do not know or obey God at that time will be destroyed 2 Thes 1:6-9

Agreed.

 

[theWind]

Christ in us is the quickening spirit.

The Holy Spirit is the power that allows us to be a witness.

The Father is in Heaven.

How to arrange all this is difficult.

It is only difficult for the trinitarian view.

Do you believe there are multiple spirits of God that indwell people?

 

[theWind]

There is judgement here and final judgement after life. Here is reaping and sowing. There the whole deeds of a life are measured.

Then why did you ask how someone could be judged before they are resurrected?

No, that was on Israel for killing all the prophets sent to her and was finished in 70Ad. Why would God pour out wrath upon one unlucky generation?

God pours out His Wrath for the massive ongoing sins of the entire world after Christ returns. Just a fact.

Why do you think it’s not real? Metaphor language is not used in those passages.

The entire book of Revelation is non-literal, prophetic signs and symbols. Again, it's just a fact. The book itself says so.

Death comes to all, righteous and evil. That’s no judgement.

It's judgment if you are never resurrected.

Besides I know people who WANT to die. Every suicide proves this is no judgement at all. They long for it and hasten it’s coming.

Massive flaming balls of sulfur upon two cities for their sins that had risen to heaven is quite certainly a judgment.

Not sure what you're saying here.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree with this partly.

Baptism into Christ is a spiritual resurrection. There is only one spiritual resurrection and only one physical resurrection.

And if you believe that the First Resurrection, as Rev. calls it, is the Baptism into Christ, where our old man dies and we are resurrected with Christ (which is correct), you have no choice but to embrace the understanding that Rev. 20 is not speaking of a Millennium to come after Christ's return. It is speaking of a not-literal 1,000 year time period from the time that Christ's kingdom begins, around the time of Matt. 28:18 and Pentecost, and ends when He turns His kingdom over to the Father upon His return in 1 Cor. 15:24.

The 144,000 is also not a literal number.

Christ tells us 6 times in the book of John that He comes on the Last Day of the world to resurrect all that have come to Him. There's just no getting around that. There are no days after a Last Day. That means that the physical resurrection that takes place on that day is the only physical resurrection. Nobody will be resurrected at a later time.

Are unbelievers resurrected? Not according to anything the Bible teaches, no, they are not.

Agreed.

Where does he say he ONLY resurrects the righteous?

 

[theWind]

There is only ONE physical resurrection of believers.

 

[theWind]

Where does he say he ONLY resurrects the righteous?

He only resurrects believers.

John 6:39, 40, 44, 54; 11:24; 12:48

All these verses, but one, speak of those who believe, who are sent to Christ by God and those who have been given eternal life.

The last verse John 12:48 shows that those who reject Christ, do not receive His words and do not believe, are not resurrected but judged on the Last Day.

Isaiah reveals something very interesting.

"O Lord our God, other lords besides thee have had dominion over us: ... they are dead, they shall not live; they are deceased, they shall not rise: ..."
Isaiah 26:13-14

Again, James 2:26 tells us that the body is spiritually dead without the Holy Spirit. All these verses coincide with that and support the concept that unbelievers will not rise at the resurrection when Christ returns.