Are unbelievers resurrected?

[journeymanisnothing]

I don't see John 5:25 saying what you claimed.

It speaks of the dead and my Bible directs me to Col. 2:13

In Col.2:13, Paul isn't speaking to people who have bodily passed away yet.

 

[Free]

I would really like to discuss this with any level-headed DIY-thinkers out there. This is not a declaration of fact, just a working theory.

I have presented this on one, or more, other sites and was swarmed with negativity and vitriol. Please consider my presentation sincerely and share your thoughts. If this is a heated topic for you, maybe it's not the thread for you to take part in. Please use your own discretion there.

This realization has become more and more apparent to me in recent years. It is not popular, of course, and will not be immediately embraced by all, or any, but I can put together a pretty sound case using Scripture and I will make this OP as terse as possible so the discussion can ensue.

First of all, I believe there is only one resurrection. I will remind repeatedly that this is not a Pre-Mil/Millennium after Christ thread. Please consider the scenario that I present based on Scripture.

The concept that I am proposing is that Christians, those who have been quickened and/or given the Holy Spirit, are the only people that Jesus resurrects at His coming. There are multiple reasons for my perspective on this, not the least of which is that Jesus tells us that it is only His sheep that are capable of hearing His voice. When He returns to gather His people in the resurrection, He gives a shout and those who are in the graves who can hear His voice will rise to Him. Those who cannot hear the voice of The Shepherd, will not rise at all. They are destroyed by death and will never be again.

John 5:28 uses the word 'all', but there are other verses/passages that use 'all' as well and are only referring to 'all' of a specific category of people - just as forever only refers to until the end of time in some passages. The following verse is the real shocker if this theory is correct. John 5:29 tells us that those who have done evil will be resurrected to damnation. On its face, this seems impossible that this would be believers, but Matt. 7:21-23 reveals a similar scenario. In that passage, those believers are rejected for being workers of iniquity (sin).

Now, let's look at what Jesus tells us about how to be quickened. In John 6, we see Jesus go on and on about His Words being the key to being quickened. He says that His words are His spirit and they are life. He speaks of being the Bread of Life and that reading/ingesting God's Words, getting our Daily Bread, is the key to being quickened in our spirit - or being given eternal life to be resurrected when He returns. Those who have not been quickened will not have that component to be resurrected with/by.

Paul even mentions being unsure of having attained to the resurrection in Phil. 3:11-14 and we are told in James 2:26 that the body without The Spirit is dead. Many will jump to the conclusion that this is not speaking of the Holy Spirit, but I have done my due diligence in studying the Greek concerning this verse and it turns out that this use of spirit is absolutely plausible as referring to the Holy Spirit.

So, what does this all mean? Well, it actually means a number of things and the implications are staggering. If it is only believing Christians who are resurrected, that means that it will only be Christians who have a spiritual quickening that would even allow them to exist in an afterlife destination of hell. If that doesn't scare the socks off of you, I don't know what will.

Please consider all that I have presented and point out any apparent inconsistencies and I will elaborate where necessary. This OP does not contain every relevant verse on this subject so there is plenty of room for further discussion.

Enjoy and God bless.

Are unbelievers resurrected? Yes.

Rev 20:11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. From his presence earth and sky fled away, and no place was found for them.
Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Then another book was opened, which is the book of life. And the dead were judged by what was written in the books, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead who were in it, Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them, and they were judged, each one of them, according to what they had done.
Rev 20:14 Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire. (ESV)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Thanks for clarifying. I didn get how only believers are resurrected,,,,,but some of them are damned? All who believe are saved.

That’s what I say. All genuine believers are in a state of salvation. They are kept by God through their faith (1Peter 1:5). They would have to go back to unbelief to be damned. Only unbelievers are damned.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Bible makes a very strong case against that sentiment.

Only EX-believers will be damned. By virtue of having faith in God’s forgiveness the believer remains in the forgiveness of sin he believes in.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Explain how this is different than Christians being lost, please.

It isn’t different.

The completed but ongoing intercessory Ministry and Sacrifice of Christ is received and retained through faith. Assuming it’s possible, the saved believer who stops believing can not keep the benefit of that which he no longer believes and trusts in

 

[jbc092671]

Those who reject Christ (past, present and future) will be resurrected at the end of Jesus' millennial reign and be judged at the Great White Throne. Those who have died in rejection of Christ do not sleep (There is no soul sleep) but instead, are confined to Hades until the day of judgement. No one is in Hell yet, those who have died without Christ are in Hades, which is not Hell, but a place of deep darkness where the souls of the condemned will be held until judgement. Some day death and Hades will be cast into the lake of fire. Revelation 20 tells us that the beast and the false prophet will be the first to be cast into the lake of fire, which is the second death.

 

[theSeriousOne]

There will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked:

Acts 24:15 BSB
15and I have the same hope in God that they themselves cherish, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked.

Daniel 12:2 BSB
2And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

But Churchianity teaches that it takes place the MOMENT WE 'DIE'- 'IMMORTAL soul', remember?

 

[jbc092671]

@the Wind
Give your thoughts on Matthew 13:30 kjv
30. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

I am trying.

eddif

Those who accept Christ during the Tribulation will be resurrected after the 1,000 year-reign of Jesus and will be with the lost at the Great White Throne, but they will be separated from those who rejected Jesus (as sheep from the goats); and the lost shall be judged for their sins and cast into the lake of fire.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Matt. 7:21-23 contradicts that notion.

So does John 15:2-6.

How do you get that these are believers?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

But Churchianity teaches that it takes place the MOMENT WE 'DIE'- 'IMMORTAL soul', remember?

No, I think it’s pretty well understood that we get our resurrection body at the end of the age, not as soon as we die.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The resurrection happens on the Last Day when Jesus returns and the Wrath of God ensues.

Can you show me any verses/passages outside of the book of Revelation that claim there is anything but a single resurrection?

To be clear, the book of Rev. only speaks of one resurrection as well.

It is the same, and only, resurrection spoken of in John 5 and 1 Cor. 15.

Revelation 20:6

You can’t just ignore that it says first resurrection.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is not an OSAS thread. This is a thread to take a close look at the Scriptures that appear to make the case that unbelievers will not be raised at the resurrection. To claim, "Well, this just isn't possible because OSAS!" is not to even open-mindedly consider all the verses/passages that are being presented herein.

Well, I’m not OSAS and I say your case fails on the fact there is more than one resurrection, and the Bible says not to be deceived about the fact that the people living in sin you say are believers are actually not believers (1 John 3:7-10). Whether they ever were or not is not the point. The point is their wicked unrepentant lifestyle shows them to be unbelievers, not believing wicked people as you contend.

 

[eddif]

I have a chance to speak - I guess.

Romans 1:18-21 kjv
18. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19. Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed itunto them.
20. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21. Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

In verse 20 the words without excuse appear.

Mankind has creation to look at. If they know it or not creation has enough information about god to declare us guilty.

If they get a hint and ask God he will see to it they get an answer. That is one reason I talk about parables so much.
The seed is the word of God
The ground is men’s hearts
If any man looks at creation he sees aspects of God. No preacher evidently is needed. The preacher says (there is a solution to the wrath of God you see in creation).

My human mind could issue exemption slips for (get out of hell free). It’s others fault not mine (cries the sinner). Unfortunately scripture talks of hidden things.

Matthew 13, Mark 4 and other places tell why parables.

 

[Rookie]

It doesn't have to be a Commandment to be a very obvious, and well-known, rule about how to construct Sound Doctrine. Anybody could take one single verse from Scripture and create an entire doctrine around it, and many have, but if it doesn't align with the weight of evidence of the Bible as a whole, it is not a sound concept at all.

And where is that labelled as sin? Or even not wise? Jesus based many of his parables off of one passage from the Scriptures, back then they didn't have deep concordiances and thorough cross-references. As long as it doesn't contradict the Bible or it's main message, it's fine. Again like bestiality being a sin, which is only mentioned once in the entire Bible has no cross references, so does that make it unusable? No!

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All Scripture isGod-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every go

Not sure I've contradicted that. You'll have to elaborate on that one.

That wasn't pointing out a contradiction that was backing my case that both believers and unbelievers will be ressurected, just ressurected to different places. John 5:29 says it most plainly.

Do you find Scripture elsewhere that contradicts any of those?

First you ask me to find Scripture, I find Scripture, then you say elsewhere Scripture. Like i told someone else since he rejected James, just because it doesn't align with your views doesn't mean the Bible is invalid. No passage of Scripture needs your stamp of approval or anyones stamp of approval.

 

[Rookie]

No, you haven't fully understood what I am proposing.

Dan. 12:2 says 'many' will be raised; not all. I have pointed out multiple verses/passages that support my case.

What I am proposing is that those who have no relationship whatsoever with God, no belief in Him, no nothing, might not be raised at all.

All who are raised will be Christians, believers. Take a close look at Matt. 7:21-23.

If you are die-hard OSAS, this concept won't appeal to you enough to even open-mindedly consider it. I mentioned there would be some of those people who might not even bother with this thread. Not saying you're not welcome here, just saying it might not be a conversation that is your cup of tea.

I have not thrown out a crazy idea with no Biblical backing to support it. On the contrary, there is ample Scripture to support it and I am continuing to present that.

1. You changed your case from "unbelievers will not be ressurected because they are spiritually dead" to "many will be raised not all". Find a foundation my guy . What you are proposing has been refuted in Daniel 12:2, Acts 24:15, John 5:29,1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Revelation 20:1-15. Now of course not all will be raised because common sense is that some will be physically alive during that time, and will be raised to heaven after the dead. 1 Thessalonians backs that up.

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17:
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

I don't know what OSAS is and just because opinions don't agree doesn't mean conversations can't be had. I'm just pointing out truth and Scripture, now if you're projecting what YOUR really feeling onto me that's you, but I never made any inference to your claim of "not my cup of tea".

And most of the Scriptures you post to support you are reaching at best, like Proverbs 21:16. And 2 Peter 2:21, I wonder how that is relevant to the upcoming ressurection?

You posted a question and we are giving you answer, did you come to be open-minded or to buckle down on your opinion?

 

[Rookie]

Why do you post such long posts?

Do you do a lot of cutting and pasting?

Your posts are so difficult to respond to because you do such a massive information dump and, it seems, hope nobody will bother to read through it all and counter anything you have presented.

Please refine your posts so that I can better enjoy countering your posts.

That's a rather lousy and infantile way to admit that you're unable to have an adequate response to for_his_glory's post that makes your argument tank.

Like is there a 12th commandment that says "Thou shalt make thou discourse short so others may enjoyeth replying"

 

[theSeriousOne]

No, I think it’s pretty well understood that we get our resurrection body at the end of the age, not as soon as we die.

Then the Dead are.... DEAD? Not living?

 

[theWind]

In Col.2:13, Paul isn't speaking to people who have bodily passed away yet.

No, but he's speaking to those who have been quickened with spiritual life and their old man has passed away.

That supports the concept of all who are resurrected having been quickened.

 

[theWind]

Every believer remains saved as long as they continue to believe and trust in that which has saved them.

Perhaps you're thinking that means a 'believer' can purposely choose to go back to their old lifestyle of unrepentant sin and remain saved. No, because the person who does that either never believed or stopped believing and so that person is not a believing wicked person. They are a wicked unbeliever.

The wicked believing person you describe does not exist in scripture. You have to go back to unbelief to be that. 1 John 3:8-10.

There are many verses in the Bible that say otherwise, but I'm not engaging in OSAS in this thread - as much as I can help it.

 

[theWind]

Just wanted to add, You must have read my post as you gave it a like, but now complain about how long it was.

Reading is only half the process.

Responding to each point that I may take exception to is then a much more tedious additional step.

All good.