Are unbelievers resurrected?

[journeymanisnothing]

If they never believed, they will be destroyed along with the rest of the wicked.

I didn ask if they never believed. I asked if they never heard. Many over the history of mankind have never heard the goapel. Are those people resurrected?

Why do you believe everyone was created to live forever? Does the Bible declare that somewhere?

The Bible says it whenever it refers to him as Creator. I didn't learn this in organized religion. I learned it when I actually started thinking about God and asking him.
Paul refers to people who don't follow him as being, without natural affection. Of course, fathers naturally care about their wayward children, hoping they'll return.

 

[eddif]

If they never believed, they will be destroyed along with the rest of the wicked.

Temporary destruction in the OT is not the evaporation into non existence.

Matthew 10:15 kjv
15. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

If I were to think a people were destroyed (into oblivion) it would be Sodom and Gomorrah.

If Sodom and Gomorrah are to be at the judgement, then wherever they are now sees the resurrection effects.

I have never heard of the doctrine of total destruction of people.

Star Trek?

I have not heard of Abraham’s Bosom being eternal either.

Nor do I think the rich man is in his permanent home.


What group holds these doctrines?
Free

I may be considered a free thinker, but not that far off the road (I hope). One purpose of online discussions is to find out if we are wrong. Passion of belief? Yes. Arrogance? No. Our ego always says (I am right).

Mississippi reddneck
eddif

 

[theWind]

They all do, quite clearly in fact.

You're wrong and you know you're wrong.

So post the verses, word for word, for all to see and let's see where they say that "unbelievers" will be resurrected.

Because it says that nowhere in the entire Bible.

But since they clearly do teach that the unrighteous dead are raised unto judgement, perhaps your interpretation of the passages you think support your position is unsound.

Show the verses so that we may discuss them directly.

Mat 11:5 the blind receive their sight and the lame walk, lepers are cleansed and the deaf hear, and the dead are raised up, and the poor have good news preached to them. (ESV)

All the dead that Jesus raised were "believers".

Jesus will raise those who believe in him, so that they alone can be with him and the Father and the Holy Spirit forever, but that doesn't mean that unbelievers are not also raised, judged, and thrown into the lake of fire, as Rev 20:11-15 clearly shows.

Show us where Rev. 20 states that "unbelievers" will be raised.

 

[theWind]

I didn ask if they never believed. I asked if they never heard. Many over the history of mankind have never heard the goapel. Are those people resurrected?

Here's your actual questions:

Do you also believe people who never heard God in a spiritual sense and have died, weren't created to live forever?
What happens to them if their still here when Jesus returns?

And here is my pertinent response:

If they never believed, they will be destroyed along with the rest of the wicked.

The Bible says it whenever it refers to him as Creator.

No, it does not.

Show the verses that state what you claim.

I didn't learn this in organized religion. I learned it when I actually started thinking about God and asking him.

You can't very well have a Biblical debate about information you didn't get from the Bible.

Are you supposed to just take my word for it if I claim that God taught me, in prayer, that unbelievers will not be resurrected?

Of course not. That's why I have provided ample Scripture to support my case Biblically.

Paul refers to people who don't follow him as being, without natural affection. Of course, fathers naturally care about their wayward children, hoping they'll return.

?????

Not all mankind are God's Children.

We are not all Jesus' sheep. The Bible makes this plain.

 

[theWind]

Temporary destruction in the OT is not the evaporation into non existence.

Read the Bible more closely and you will see it referred to many times.

Jesus will only raise those whom He has chosen to quicken. It can't be more plain than that.

If Jesus has not quickened somebody, they cannot be raised.

Matthew 10:15 kjv
15. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

That verse isn't saying what you think it is.

What it's saying is 'It will be more tolerable, for that city, in the Day of Judgment, than it was for Sodom and Gomorrah.

If I were to think a people were destroyed (into oblivion) it would be Sodom and Gomorrah. If Sodom and Gomorrah are to be at the judgement, then wherever they are now sees the resurrection effects.

They will most certainly not be raised. They were as wicked as it gets.

The only family of "believers" within them was escorted out of there before God poured forth judgment upon the cities.

I may be considered a free thinker, but not that far off the road (I hope).

You're just not as familiar with the Bible as you think you are.

Church taught? Seminary?

Great for social, not so great for sound Biblical understanding.

We are to study the Bible diligently, with no man teaching us, and allow the Holy Spirit to teach us all there is to know. 1 John 2:27

 

[Free]

You're wrong and you know you're wrong.

So post the verses, word for word, for all to see and let's see where they say that "unbelievers" will be resurrected.

Because it says that nowhere in the entire Bible.

Show the verses so that we may discuss them directly.

I've posted all of them already and they support what I have said. I'm not going to keep repeating what I've already posted.

All the dead that Jesus raised were "believers".

Which is clearly not relevant to my point.

Show us where Rev. 20 states that "unbelievers" will be raised.

Already did that, more than once.

 

[theWind]

Dorothy Mae

Just came across this verse. Thought you might find it interesting.

"There is no judgment against anyone who believes ... But anyone who does not believe ... has already been judged ..."
John 3:18

This is before any resurrection takes place. And, I believe, disallows any resurrection for that unbeliever.

 

[theWind]

I've posted all of them already and they support what I have said. I'm not going to keep repeating what I've already posted.

You haven't posted a single verse that states that "unbelievers" will be resurrected.

Which is clearly not relevant to my point.

It's relevant to the thread. This thread is about unbelievers not being resurrected.

Already did that, more than once.

The term "unbelievers" is found nowhere in Rev. 20.

There are no verses, with that word, that you could've posted.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy Mae

Just came across this verse. Thought you might find it interesting.

"There is no judgment against anyone who believes ... But anyone who does not believe ... has already been judged ..."
John 3:18

This is before any resurrection takes place. And, I believe, disallows any resurrection for that unbeliever.

12And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before [c]God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second [d]death. 15And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus…but we will all stand before the judgement Seat of Christ….all.

I know you don’t like those verses but I have the freedom to accept the whole Bible. You need to black out some verses.

 

[theWind]

There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus…but we will all stand before the judgement Seat of Christ….all.

All who are in Christ Jesus.

I know you don’t like those verses but I have the freedom to accept the whole Bible. You need to black out some verses.

What verses do I black out?

Another interesting verse that's been presented here in defense of unbelievers being resurrected is Rev. 20:5. Let's take a look at this one.

"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the First Resurrection."

See anything wrong with this?

So we're told that these are unbelievers being resurrected at the end of the Millennium that comes after Christ returns. Nobody argues that there is a resurrection that takes place when Christ returns, yet somehow this second resurrection is called the First Resurrection.

Another big problem with this interpretation.

Lots of holes in this concept.

Again, the Bible teaches that "the dead" also means devout believers in Christ.
Romans 6:7-11

 

[Free]

You haven't posted a single verse that states that "unbelievers" will be resurrected.

On the contrary, I certainly have, and others have posted the same verses. It strongly suggests that your understanding of those verses is not correct.

It's relevant to the thread. This thread is about unbelievers not being resurrected.

It doesn't matter if you think it is relevant to this thread, it is not relevant to my point, which is addressing your misuse of John 5:21.

The term "unbelievers" is found nowhere in Rev. 20.

That is not relevant, since unbelievers are, by definition, those whose names aren't written in the book of life. There is no getting around that fact.

There are no verses, with that word, that you could've posted.

It's always interesting how when one is confronted with evidence, the goalposts move, often to "such-and-such a word" isn't in the Bible or in said verses and therefore there are no verses that support the claim. But that is a fallacious argument when the teachings are there but simply use different language.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

On the contrary, I certainly have, and others have posted the same verses. It strongly suggests that your understanding of those verses is not correct.


It doesn't matter if you think it is relevant to this thread, it is not relevant to my point, which is addressing your misuse of John 5:21.


That is not relevant, since unbelievers are, by definition, those whose names aren't written in the book of life. There is no getting around that fact.


It's always interesting how when one is confronted with evidence, the goalposts move, often to "such-and-such a word" isn't in the Bible or in said verses and therefore there are no verses that support the claim. But that is a fallacious argument when the teachings are there but simply use different language.

There are some who say essentially, "don't confuse me with the scripture, I have already made up my mind as to what I believe." Without fail these kinds always have a theology that guarantees them heaven no matter how they behave. Some have a theology that guarantees others no judgement as well. Makes 'em feel better about going to heaven for sure.

 

[theWind]

On the contrary, I certainly have, and others have posted the same verses. It strongly suggests that your understanding of those verses is not correct.

Are you saying I'm "wrong"?

Sure sounds a whole lot like you're saying I'm "wrong".

If my understanding is not correct, that would make meeee ....... "wrong".

Right?

It doesn't matter if you think it is relevant to this thread, it is not relevant to my point, which is addressing your misuse of John 5:21.

That verse shows that Jesus chooses who He will quicken.

Simple math reveals that there will then be some whom Jesus does not quicken.

Those who are not quickened cannot be raised.

That is not relevant, since unbelievers are, by definition, those whose names aren't written in the book of life. There is no getting around that fact.

Let's see:

"He that overcometh, ... I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, ..."
Rev. 3:5

He that does not overcome, will be blotted out.

"Let Me alone that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven: ..."
Deut. 9:14

These were unquestionably believers, as they had seen God on Mt. Sinai with their own eyes.

"Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book."
Ex. 32:33

Again, God is referring to those who undoubtedly believed in Him among the ranks of Moses' people.

Looks like believers' names can be taken out of the Book of Life.

It's always interesting how when one is confronted with evidence, the goalposts move, often to "such-and-such a word" isn't in the Bible or in said verses and therefore there are no verses that support the claim. But that is a fallacious argument when the teachings are there but simply use different language.

That's humorous. Am I allowed to say that's humorous?

I've been speaking of "unbelievers" not being resurrected since page 2 of this thread.

Yeah, kinda hard to claim that's "moving the goal posts", isn't it?

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Here's your actual questions:
Do you also believe people who never heard...?
And here is my pertinent response:
If they never believed...

I didn't ask you if someone never 'believed.' I asked what about those who never 'heard' the gospel. Nevermind.

No, it does not.

Show the verses that state what you claim.

For I have no pleasure in the death of the dying, An affirmation of the Lord Jehovah, And turn ye back and live! Eze.18:32

You can't very well have a Biblical debate about information you didn't get from the Bible.

It is from the Bible. It's from doing what God says is his way of enlightening people,

then your light will rise in the darkness, and your night will become like the noonday. Isa.58:10

Are you supposed to just take my word for it if I claim that God taught me, in prayer, that unbelievers will not be resurrected?

No. What I'm supposed to do is apply our Lords' teachings to my own existence.

Of course not. That's why I have provided ample Scripture to support my case Biblically.

?????

Not all mankind are God's Children.

We are not all Jesus' sheep. The Bible makes this plain.

And since according to you only believers can face damnation, don't preach Christ to the lost. Simply let them eat and drink, for tommorrow they die...and that's the end of them...according to you.

 

[Free]

Are you saying I'm "wrong"?

Sure sounds a whole lot like you're saying I'm "wrong".

If my understanding is not correct, that would make meeee ....... "wrong".

Right?

What I clearly said was that with everyone else in this thread saying that those verses say something different than what you claim, that your understanding is likely incorrect. It's a red flag to you.

That verse shows that Jesus chooses who He will quicken.

Simple math reveals that there will then be some whom Jesus does not quicken.

Those who are not quickened cannot be raised.

And, as I stated and gave verses in support, John 5:21 had relevance to Jesus's ministry.

Let's see:

"He that overcometh, ... I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, ..."
Rev. 3:5

He that does not overcome, will be blotted out.

"Let Me alone that I may destroy them and blot out their name from under heaven: ..."
Deut. 9:14

These were unquestionably believers, as they had seen God on Mt. Sinai with their own eyes.

"Whosoever hath sinned against Me, him will I blot out of My book."
Ex. 32:33

Again, God is referring to those who undoubtedly believed in Him among the ranks of Moses' people.

Looks like believers' names can be taken out of the Book of Life.

That it seems a person's name can be blotted out of the book of life has absolutely no bearing on Rev 20:11-15. Those verses stand alone in their mention of the book of life. Either a person's name is in the book of life, which means they're a believer, or it is not, which means they're an unbeliever. It's as simple as that.

That's humorous. Am I allowed to say that's humorous?

I've been speaking of "unbelievers" not being resurrected since page 2 of this thread.

Yeah, kinda hard to claim that's "moving the goal posts", isn't it?

I've only been in this for a page or so. But it seems you once again "missed" the point I was making. That "unbeliever" doesn't appear in any verse I gave is irrelevant, since Rev 20:11-15 is clearly speaking of both believers and unbelievers. So it's fallacious to argue that 'The term "unbelievers" is found nowhere in Rev. 20. . . . There are no verses, with that word, that you could've posted.'

 

[theWind]

And since according to you only believers can face damnation, don't preach Christ to the lost. Simply let them eat and drink, for tommorrow they die...and that's the end of them...according to you.

According to Christ, we must be chosen, quickened and be capable of hearing Jesus' voice in order to be resurrected. Not according to me.

Not even shocked that you're putting words in my mouth. I never said a single thing about not preaching the Gospel. Only those who believe what is preached to them can be saved. That has nothing to do with the person preaching the Truth.

It's been called "Salvation" from the time of Jesus. Apparently one of the things we are saved from is ultimate annihilation. If God gives us Salvation from that and we choose to misuse our freedom and not follow Christ, apparently God feels we should be punished for that.

There's a whole lotta people in this thread who don't like God's Word at all.

 

[theWind]

Either a person's name is in the book of life, which means they're a believer, or it is not, which means they're an unbeliever. It's as simple as that.

Apparently it's not quite that simple.

If a believer's name is blotted out of the book, they don't magically become an unbeliever. You can't unbelieve in God.

The Bible even says this about those who do turn from the Faith, "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."
2 Pet. 2:21

... and ...

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, ... and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (one of the components needed for resurrection) and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; ..."
Heb. 6:4-6

Two examples from Scripture of those who have been chosen, quickened, given ears to hear and then went another way. These people, who have done evil, will be resurrected, as John says in 5:29, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

According to Christ, we must be chosen, quickened and be capable of hearing Jesus' voice in order to be resurrected. Not according to me.

Yes and according to scripture, people who believe are chosen,

The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth. Psa.145:2

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Do you understand that our Father is near to people who are sincere about calling on him. He isn't near to people for no earthly reason.

Not even shocked that you're putting words in my mouth. I never said a single thing about not preaching the Gospel.

I know you didn't. I was being sarcastic, because if there really is no damnation for certain sinners,

Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!" Isa.22:13

Ok? Do you understand? You are teaching that as long as a sinner has never been a believer, they can sin all they want and never face damnation.

Only those who believe what is preached to them can be saved. That has nothing to do with the person preaching the Truth.

Yes, I know you believe that. Please try your philosophy using Jesus as the Witness. Can't use our Lord for an example? Try any author God used to write scripture or any believer mentioned in scripture. People may listen to someone who actually believes what they're saying. Nobody will listen to someone who doesn't follow their own advice. And this why our Savior said,

By this shall all men know Jn.13:35

a servant of the Lord it behoveth not to strive, but to be gentle unto all, apt to teach, patient under evil, in meekness instructing those opposing, if perhaps God may give to them repentance to an acknowledging of the truth,
2Tim.2:24-25

Nobody will listen to someone who doesn't follow their own advice

because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme 2Sam.12:14

This is why the believer said, "Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee." Psa.51:13

Do you understand that our conduct affects how our witness is perceived?

It's been called "Salvation" from the time of Jesus. Apparently one of the things we are saved from is ultimate annihilation.

Just on the side, I don't believe in never ending torment. I agree with annihilation after Christ exposes sin.

If God gives us Salvation from that and we choose to misuse our freedom and not follow Christ, apparently God feels we should be punished for that.

There's a whole lotta people in this thread who don't like God's Word at all.

I think we should try not to be two of them.

 

[Free]

Apparently it's not quite that simple.

If a believer's name is blotted out of the book, they don't magically become an unbeliever. You can't unbelieve in God.

The Bible even says this about those who do turn from the Faith, "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning."
2 Pet. 2:21

2 Peter 2:20. But, look at the entire context. You'll see it isn't really saying what you think it's saying:

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. (ESV)

The whole chapter is about false prophets. It stands to reason then, that "the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ" isn't referring to salvation. It can't be--it's speaking of false prophets "who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, ... and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (one of the components needed for resurrection) and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; ..."
Heb. 6:4-6

Two examples from Scripture of those who have been chosen, quickened, given ears to hear and then went another way. These people, who have done evil, will be resurrected, as John says in 5:29, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Such people are not saved and so, yes, will be among all the unsaved, all the unbelievers, who will be resurrected "unto the resurrection of damnation." Just as Rev 20:11-15 shows. There is absolutely no basis for believing that Rev 20:11-15 only refers to those who were once Christian.

 

[theWind]

Yes and according to scripture, people who believe are chosen,

The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon him, to all that call upon him in truth. Psa.145:2

I'm not trying to be sarcastic. Do you understand that our Father is near to people who are sincere about calling on him. He isn't near to people for no earthly reason.

I know you didn't. I was being sarcastic, because if there really is no damnation for certain sinners,

Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!" Isa.22:13

Ok? Do you understand? You are teaching that as long as a sinner has never been a believer, they can sin all they want and never face damnation.

Yes, I know you believe that. Please try your philosophy using Jesus as the Witness. Can't use our Lord for an example? Try any author God used to write scripture or any believer mentioned in scripture. People may listen to someone who actually believes what they're saying. Nobody will listen to someone who doesn't follow their own advice. And this why our Savior said,

By this shall all men know Jn.13:35

a servant of the Lord it behoveth not to strive, but to be gentle unto all, apt to teach, patient under evil, in meekness instructing those opposing, if perhaps God may give to them repentance to an acknowledging of the truth,
2Tim.2:24-25

Nobody will listen to someone who doesn't follow their own advice

because by this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme 2Sam.12:14

This is why the believer said, "Then will I teach transgressors thy ways; and sinners shall be converted unto thee." Psa.51:13

Do you understand that our conduct affects how our witness is perceived?

Just on the side, I don't believe in never ending torment. I agree with annihilation after Christ exposes sin.

I think we should try not to be two of them.

To be annihilated upon physical death, and never exist again for all eternity, is a pretty bad deal. I don't know anybody who would like the idea of that. It horrified the fallen angels.

What sense does it make for God to send people to torment in hell, even if it is temporary, if they've never had and knowledge/understanding of Him or His Ways?

Yet, those whom He has blessed and given Light and Life and Freedom, etc., owe everything to Him. If they choose to turn from all that He has given, and promised, them, unfortunate as it may be, they deserve a harsher punishment.

That is not what I am teaching, willy-nilly. It is what the Bible teaches and I, for one, can admit that it makes perfect sense to me. Too many people have too little reverence for God these days. He deserves all the glory and He deserves our full commitment to His Word and His Ways.