Bible Study ARE we still sinners?

[ezra]

In any case, "Just as if I had never sinned" is cute but no where near the meaning of the scriptures.
It's just easy to remember and impresses the wuffos.

so justified is not declared righteous ? when i was justified i was forgiven my sins cast into the sea of forgetfulness. my slate was wiped clean i was fully pardoned no record of my offenses ==so yes it was just as i had never sinned
2 Corinthians 5:21 (ESV)
21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
i preached on this scripture last sunday i was reading in Adam Clarke commentary .he said better worded would be sin offering .he paid the price i am redeemed .. so i respectfully disagree with you i mean Grace divine favor is a wonderful thing

 

[Jim Parker]

so justified is not declared righteous ? when i was justified i was forgiven my sins cast into the sea of forgetfulness. my slate was wiped clean i was fully pardoned no record of my offenses ==so yes it was just as i had never sinned

Yeah, that's one part.

 

[ezra]

Yeah, that's one part.

i didnt know there was two part to justification

 

[Jim Parker]

i didnt know there was two part to justification

No. There's not.
But there is another aspect to it.
The Hebraic word (TSEDKA) <<have to check if I spelled that tight>> for Justified" in NT Greek is "DIKAIOSUNE" (justify, righteous)
The Hebraic word refers to the power by which God saves.
So, From God's view, He justifies. (Heb: TSEDAKA) He does the action.
From our view, we are justified. (GR: DIKAIOSUNE) We receive the result of GOd's action.

 

[ezra]

We receive the result of GOd's action.

no dis respect for your greek but it being solely God action is the only way 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Romans 1:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. takes man out of the picture

 

[dirtfarmer]

We are all sinners whether saved or not the only time we "don't sin at all" is when we do right for God/Jesus by way of the Holy spirit.
Now there are "difference" between a believer who has accepted Jesus Christ and his works and a non believer who is still lost/still a slave to sin...
A believer who has accepted Jesus and his works otherwise known as a "saved" individual is one who does not sin willfully "in good conscience" having "remorse" when and if they perceive they have sinned.
A non believer or otherwise known as lost or "unsaved" who has not accepted Jesus Christ and his works for whatever reason is one who can be known to willfully sin "without remorse" and "delight in sin" or basically their will is the "opposite" of God's", and aren't open to "change".
Both are classified as sinners,one being a sinner saved by grace, the other being a sinner who rejects Jesus or hasn't come to accept Jesus and his works.
The biggest difference between the two is perhaps in that a believer is more prone to serve God/Jesus, help others in need without thought of self gain and strive to not sin so abundantly,a non believer is more prone to do things for selfish reasons such as help others for self gain, promote one's self as some great thing, rely on one's own strength and knowledge and not be "trusting".

hello that fuzzy guy, dirtfarmer here

Can you give scripture that states that God sees the believer as a saved sinner rather that a saint. As I stated in my post, "God see the believer as a saved sinner". There is no scripture where a believer is described as "a saved sinner". There are scriptures that state the believer is a saint but I have yet to find any that states the believer is "a saved sinner".

If the "old man" is crucified with Christ, and it is, then how can "the old man(sinner)" live? In Ephesians 2:19 it is stated: " Now therefore ye are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God." Is there sin in the household of God?

Ephesians 2:22, " In whom ye also are builded together "for a habitation of God" through the Spirit."

If we are fellowcitizens with the saints, of the household of God, and a habitation of God through the Spirit, how can we still be sinners? We are a new creation: 2 Corinthians 5:17, " Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

 

[that fizzy guy]

hello that fuzzy guy, dirtfarmer here

Can you give scripture that states that God sees the believer as a saved sinner rather that a saint. As I stated in my post, "God see the believer as a saved sinner". There is no scripture where a believer is described as "a saved sinner". There are scriptures that state the believer is a saint but I have yet to find any that states the believer is "a saved sinner".

If the "old man" is crucified with Christ, and it is, then how can "the old man(sinner)" live? In Ephesians 2:19 it is stated: " Now therefore ye are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God." Is there sin in the household of God?

Ephesians 2:22, " In whom ye also are builded together "for a habitation of God" through the Spirit."

If we are fellowcitizens with the saints, of the household of God, and a habitation of God through the Spirit, how can we still be sinners? We are a new creation: 2 Corinthians 5:17, " Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature; old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Very well admittedly I have been slack with scriptures lately here are some scriptures...
Romans 3:7(KJV)
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
------------------------------------------------------------
Romans 3:23(KJV)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

 

[ezrider]

Isaiah 43:23-26
But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob;
but thou hast been weary of me, O Israel.
Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings;
neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices.
I have not caused thee to serve with an offering,
nor wearied thee with incense.
Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money,
neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices:
but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins,
thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities.
I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake,
and will not remember thy sins.
Put me in remembrance: let us plead together:
declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.


Isaiah 44:21-22
Remember these, O Jacob
and Israel; for thou art my servant:
I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.
I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions,
and, as a cloud, thy sins:
return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

 

[ezra]

Very well admittedly I have been slack with scriptures lately here are some scriptures...
Romans 3:7(KJV)
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
------------------------------------------------------------
Romans 3:23(KJV)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

this is past not present God does not see our sin after salvation that is past sins commuted

 

[Papa Zoom]

Our identity in Christ is not that of a sinner but of a Saint. And yet we still struggle with sin. Oh who will save me from this body of death! Walk with Christ in obedience to His commands. Not as a means of salvation but because of it. We profess to be followers, so then, follow. Do that which He said to do. Sanctification is work. And each day I need a reminder of these things. But I don't dwell on my sin(s) but on His Holiness.

 

[that fizzy guy]

Our identity in Christ is not that of a sinner but of a Saint. And yet we still struggle with sin. Oh who will save me from this body of death! Walk with Christ in obedience to His commands. Not as a means of salvation but because of it. We profess to be followers, so then, follow. Do that which He said to do. Sanctification is work. And each day I need a reminder of these things. But I don't dwell on my sin(s) but on His Holiness.

I suppose there is some question as to what people mean by sinner and sinning because I understand that despite being saved we still sin, even paul said that to say otherwise is to have "no truth in one" or on his words "the truth is not in him".
I also discern the difference between "righteousness" and "unrighteousness" and "self righteousness" in "righteousness" we do as the Holy spirit leads us to do,in "unrighteousness" those that live in it go after things opposite of God's will and in "self righteousness" these are they that boast of all they have done only to "say nothing" for this is as "filthy rags" I'm curious as to which one people here feel they are for Iy am merely standing against the ludicrousness of perfection and sinlessness here on earth, before we receive our new bodies yet I find people clinging so desperately to that being born again makes you a new creation as if one never sins again while true we are "new creations" spiritually it is preposterous to think we can achieve what Jesus was "perfect" and "sinless" before our time for I'm not willing to be "a liar".
There have been many "names" and "titles" for all who came and still come to Jesus "disciples", "apostles", "saints" but it doth not add to our stature nor did it for them we are all "humble servants" or at least we should be thinking not on vain things that we might add to ourselves here for greater is our reward past this life than in it.

 

[that fizzy guy]

Very well admittedly I have been slack with scriptures lately here are some scriptures...
Romans 3:7(KJV)
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?
------------------------------------------------------------
Romans 3:23(KJV)
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

That's interesting I typed the scriptures myself but now they are links that's pretty cool!

 

[LovethroughDove]

When you are born again, you have been born of the Holy Spirit now.
John 3:5

First, you wouldn't have received the Spirit if you didn't want the truth.
John 3:21

Second, If you have been given the Spirit you are being changed into the likeness of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness, with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

You are not perfect, but you are turning towards holiness now and not going backwards into sin
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

So, to answer your question. We are born again by the Holy Spirit. Our old nature is gone and we are being transformed into the likeness of Christ. I wouldn't call myself a sinner now, but a work in progress.

 

[that fizzy guy]

When you are born again, you have been born of the Holy Spirit now.
John 3:5

First, you wouldn't have received the Spirit if you didn't want the truth.
John 3:21

Second, If you have been given the Spirit you are being changed into the likeness of the Lord.
1 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness, with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

You are not perfect, but you are turning towards holiness now and not going backwards into sin
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

So, to answer your question. We are born again by the Holy Spirit. Our old nature is gone and we are being transformed into the likeness of Christ. I wouldn't call myself a sinner now, but a work in progress.

Now this^^^^ makes sense!
Yes exactly the word "sinner" is thrown about a lot, I like your phrase "A work in progress" because unlike God and Jesus we are not quite perfect but not quite out from sin entirely,free from it through Jesus at times as it is written "when he makes you free you shall be free indeed" but, always needing to be "weary" of not getting into sin again and the way to do that is focus on God/Jesus just like with one of his disciples that actually went out to Jesus on water after Jesus told him that he "could" but, he noticed the waters and started sinking instead of focusing on Jesus, we mustn't "lose sight of" who is "in control" .

 

[ezra]

because I understand that despite being saved we still sin

and we do john 1:9 1 john 1:7 this is instructions we have a advocate if we do sin God does not see our past sins its not so much your post is completely wrong .its how it is worded . papa smurf made a excellent post in reply :
Papa Zoom
Staff member
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JoinedJul 18, 2014Messages8,892GenderMale
Today at 8:22 AM
New #30
Our identity in Christ is not that of a sinner but of a Saint. And yet we still struggle with sin. Oh who will save me from this body of death! Walk with Christ in obedience to His commands. Not as a means of salvation but because of it. We profess to be followers, so then, follow. Do that which He said to do. Sanctification is work. And each day I need a reminder of these things. But I don't dwell on my sin(s) but on His Holiness.


if we focused more on his holiness than sin things would be a lot better ..but instead we focus on the sin what sin is are we a sinner do we sin. i drive about 50 miles round trip each day to work.there is a possibility i could wreck... but i focus on my driving so i dont wreck or get in a wreck . the story about 2 dogs getting into a fight . which one will win the one that is fed the best. feed the spirit man so we can have victory

 

[Tessa]

and we do john 1:9 1 john 1:7 this is instructions we have a advocate if we do sin God does not see our past sins its not so much your post is completely wrong .its how it is worded . papa smurf made a excellent post in reply :
Papa Zoom
Staff member
Moderator
JoinedJul 18, 2014Messages8,892GenderMale
Today at 8:22 AM
New #30
Our identity in Christ is not that of a sinner but of a Saint. And yet we still struggle with sin. Oh who will save me from this body of death! Walk with Christ in obedience to His commands. Not as a means of salvation but because of it. We profess to be followers, so then, follow. Do that which He said to do. Sanctification is work. And each day I need a reminder of these things. But I don't dwell on my sin(s) but on His Holiness.


if we focused more on his holiness than sin things would be a lot better ..but instead we focus on the sin what sin is are we a sinner do we sin. i drive about 50 miles round trip each day to work.there is a possibility i could wreck... but i focus on my driving so i dont wreck or get in a wreck . the story about 2 dogs getting into a fight . which one will win the one that is fed the best. feed the spirit man so we can have victory

Ezra that is very uplifting, a wake up call, and very well explained.

 

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

The question that has to be answered, how can a person be saved and still be a sinner. The question that needs an answer is, can God look upon a sinner without judging sin in their lives? The answer no. When God sees sin he has to judge it because he is holy. God's mercy is extended to every life because of Christ's crucifixion. It is at the point of physical death that God's mercy is no longer extended. When a person believes he is taken out of the kingdom of darkness(sin) and translated into the kingdom of His dear Son. It is God's mercy that he extends to all that keeps him from judging us when we are physically born.

God's grace is offered to all that are still alive physically. It is His grace that gives to us what we don't deserve, eternal life( soul salvation). Removed from impending judgment and eternal separation from Him, never ever subject to his wrath after salvation. Does every one accept his grace? the answer is no.

When we are overtaken in a fault, it is fellowship that is broken, but the relationship, as His child, is secure. When God looks on believers He sees Christ tasting death for all. The sin of unbelief is the reason anyone suffers eternal death, even the children of Israel were overthrown in the "wilderness" because of unbelief. There were those of Israel that offered the sacrifices that didn't make it into the land of promise; why, because of unbelief. You can say all the right things and keep the all the laws and still have condemnation. Why? because of unbelief

 

[ezra]

1 John 2:1

“My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:”
advocate
to speak or write in favor of; support or urge by argument; recommend publicly:He advocated higher salaries for teachers.
What does it mean to have an advocate in Jesus Christ?

• Adrian Rogers

Advocate is just a fancy term for a lawyer, someone who pleads your case before the bar or justice. John writes, “If any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous” (I John 2:1). Jesus goes before God on our behalf and says, “Father, I know they are sinners, but they have repented and My blood has cleansed them. They belong to Me.”

Actually, we have two divine advocates. The Holy Spirit is the advocate within the Christian to represent Jesus to us. Jesus is our advocate in heaven to represent us before the Father.

 

[Natha]

1 John 5:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

1 John 3:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

here is some scriptures that can create confusion any one care to explain a sin not unto death ?
this should be interesting might i say i agree with wip on still being s WIP .i am still on the potters wheel

Thank you for your thoughts
i am strongly believing saint never sins,..
the blood of "Christ is did 100% work to purge heart to leave the dead works and to save the living God''
i don't believe saint is not still sinner
saint word is not with relation with sinner..
sinner is transformed as saint..if i still a sinner.. what is the use with the blood of Christ for me?

 

[Natha]

dirtfarmer here

Once a person has received salvation God sees them as saints, no longer as sinners. There is no scripture that states that a believer is a sinner, but you do find that they were once sinners(past tense) but are seen by God as if they had never sinned.

In the old testament a sacrifice of atonement was required once a year, every year, but now that Christ has been made sin for us and we have been made the righteousness of God in Christ, salvation is completed by faith in Christ's blood as our payment for our sin makes us in the eyes of God as if we had never sinned.

I am strongly believing
John wrote the epistle to unbelievers
pl check 1st chapter 1st verse,
1Jn 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jn 1:2 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
John is witnessing to people who are not hear on Jesus..
those unbelievers are thinking as they are not sinners ,.,.
so they need to know on themselves as sinners
this is why John said..
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
he is trying to bring them to understand .. and also he is wanted to bring them to forgiveness
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
if John is sinner,.., there is no meaning for new testament and new covenant from Jesus
i am truly trusting...
a saint can to the mistakes but he can't do the sin..
sin can not govern on a saint... it is written by Paul
1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
Paul saying i am sinner .. ''Before'' means long time back.. or some time back..
in 12th verse he is saying...................... He counted me faithful, ..... he is saying on present time

i request you all
do not deceive yourselves..
THE BLOOD OF CHRIST ACTION IS 100%
IF the blood of Jesus is still allowing me to sin more ... i don't need that blood..
No way for me.. i need blood of Christ.. because it is powerful to do all things for me..
Thank you Jesus...