Aren't these witchcraft practices?

[Orion]

Muslims have a devotion, but it is in an idol, a demonic force. There is no "religion" on the
planet that has a Saviour that saves from sin and is alive!

They would say the same about you.

No they don't. They may produce a short-lived semblance of these things but they are imparted by mind control and by demonic interference. Authentic healing and wholeness come only by the touch of the Holy Healer, Jesus Christ!

Again, . . . you believe this because you were born where Christianity ruled. Someone born in Istanbul would have a different opinion.

You have unbelief. You allowed yourself to become unconvinced by not following.

I followed for roughly 30 sincere years. . . . never felt anything real.

NO, THERE ARE NOT. Once again, you are judging God from a position that you set yourself in which is ABOVE Him.

Sorry, but I will refuse to stone an unruly son to death, or kill a daughter who happens to NOT be a virgin on her wedding day.

How would you know any of that if you lack full comprehension? The truth of the Word of God is revealed by the Holy Spirit who lives within us. He opens our eyes and hearts to the truth. Without the Revealer, one is at a great disadvantage for judging truth.

Yet you STILL have to take "your revelation" on faith that it is from God and not just from your own self. . . . . . . . or some other outside influence.

We are told to guard our hearts. We must guard against unbelief. Unbelief is the result of disobedience to that command. When we come to Christ we thirst for righteousness and have a need for the Word, and we are given teachers and leaders to emulate and learn from. It blesses God.

I think that I would be better to guard my heart against "doctrines of men". You have only the words of a man, and faith IN that man, when he says that his words are "from God". I choose not to trust the words written down by men even if they claim divine inspiration.

Oh, and I actually DO "thirst for living right". I prefer it over incorrect living.

Isaiah 64:6a
But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;

Yeah, . . . yours too. Funny, Christianity is supposed to be a religion that is uplifting, . . .but it constantly tells you how horrible you really are, how you deserve to "burn for all eternity" (based upon a short meager existance), how you're never good enough, . . . and EVEN IN your Christianity, . . . even there your "righteousness is filthy".

I know I feel uplifted now. :-?


Edited to add: I'll be gone now until [probably] Monday.

 

[Alabaster]

Muslims have a devotion, but it is in an idol, a demonic force. There is no "religion" on the
planet that has a Saviour that saves from sin and is alive!

They would say the same about you.

They are deluded by Satan. They do not have the truth.

 

[Orion]

Muslims have a devotion, but it is in an idol, a demonic force. There is no "religion" on the
planet that has a Saviour that saves from sin and is alive!

They would say the same about you.

They are deluded by Satan. They do not have the truth.

Again, . . .they would say the same to you. They, too, are devout in their beliefs.

I happen to disagree with their assessment as well.

Have a good weekend!

 

[Alabaster]

Again, . . . you believe this because you were born where Christianity ruled. Someone born in Istanbul would have a different opinion.

I am ever grateful that God has ordained that I was born in a free country to people of God!

However, there are people in Istanbul and all of Turkey who agree with God in this. He works His will in the lives of those He calls--even those born in adversity. I love my brothers and sisters from countries that deny Jesus Christ as Saviour.

The people of God are the light of the world and the salt of the earth. That is why we obey God in telling the world the truth.

It saddens me that in this culture we have as many pagans and unbelievers as any other world nation--we have been spoiled having the availability of the truth. We will be held more accountable for living with truth, hearing it repeatedly, yet not embracing it.

What sorrow will be witnessed on Judgment Day!

 

[Alabaster]

Again, . . .they would say the same to you. They, too, are devout in their beliefs.

I happen to disagree with their assessment as well.

Have a good weekend!

And again--it matters not to me what they would say. They are wrong. Their devotion is to a dead man and a demonic being.

 

[Rick W]

Muslims don't want to accept God's judgment either so they deny the Christ as the Son of God as those who practice witchcraft.
But their denial convicts them as anyone else who denies the Son. For doing so the Father is denied as well as His judgment.

 

[Orion]

I'm actually able to be on a bit today.

I won't argue the case for Muslims. I doubt they have their religion right.

As for a nation, such as the United States, that has "pagans and unbelievers", what do you suppose is the reason for this? This nation, long ago, and even a lot of Europe, used to be mostly Christian.

What happened that changed this? Disobedience? Perhaps a fringe element, but a LOT of them became aloof to Christianity when science determined that they weren't finding a world/universe that would be expected based on Biblical accounts. I bet a lot of them struggled over these issues, maybe for years, only to conclude that perhaps they didn't have it right (their religion) afterall. Where they may have failed, though, is in their belief that "if the Bible is false, then there is no God".

I don't go this route. I'm pretty certain that we do not have the ability to scientifically test the supernatural, but even so, that doesn't place the supernatural in the relm of "santa claus and the easter bunny".

For ME, personally, . . . I DO want what is real. But the problem with the Christian religion [again, for me] is that it ISN'T a "real experience", but one of "FAITH that it is real". There's a big difference there. You can tell me all day long "how real your walk with God/Jesus is", and even tell me that I'm wrong for "not having the same relationship with God/Jesus", but for me to sit in my living room, read from a book, pray to an unseen and un-felt God, . . . I found it IMpersonal at best. There is no "best friend beside me who I actually have a meaningful conversation with".

Furthermore, I can't see the document regarded as "the inspired Word of God" AS literally inspired. It does leave a person with a conondrum. What is God's words, and what is man's. My evidence is seen within the numberous denominations and doctrines, for if the Bible WERE truly and completely inspired, . . . you would have ONE denomination. ONE "doctrine of the church". ONE focus/goal, and everyone on the same page. On the contrary, each denomination believes that THEY are right, and their "Christian brothers are wrong on that doctrine". Those same "Christian brothers" would say the same things in turn.

This will probably be the last thing I say on this topic. You all can make the same claims over and over again, but just because you think you got it all figured out, . . . it doesn't necessarily make it so. I say all this respectfully, and trust that I will discover truth at some point down the road.

 

[Alabaster]

You need a revelation of Jesus Christ. That's all. I will pray for you that Jesus will reveal Himself to you.

 

[turnorburn]

The reason Christianity did a 180* turn around is because Gods people started
to get greedy, forgetting that he has his needs as well. We pray to win the
lottery :crazyeyes: we ask for this and we ask for that, have you ever tried
having a one on one with our creator, his door is open 24/7. Just talking to him
like you would talk to your best friend if there is such a thing on this earth. Talk to him like
the servant you are, ask him if "He" would like something. He is God after all
and he understands we have needs, he supplies all of our needs through Christ
Jesus.

I'm actually able to be on a bit today.

I won't argue the case for Muslims. I doubt they have their religion right.

As for a nation, such as the United States, that has "pagans and unbelievers", what do you suppose is the reason for this? This nation, long ago, and even a lot of Europe, used to be mostly Christian.

What happened that changed this? Disobedience? Perhaps a fringe element, but a LOT of them became aloof to Christianity when science determined that they weren't finding a world/universe that would be expected based on Biblical accounts. I bet a lot of them struggled over these issues, maybe for years, only to conclude that perhaps they didn't have it right (their religion) afterall. Where they may have failed, though, is in their belief that "if the Bible is false, then there is no God".

I don't go this route. I'm pretty certain that we do not have the ability to scientifically test the supernatural, but even so, that doesn't place the supernatural in the relm of "santa claus and the easter bunny".

For ME, personally, . . . I DO want what is real. But the problem with the Christian religion [again, for me] is that it ISN'T a "real experience", but one of "FAITH that it is real". There's a big difference there. You can tell me all day long "how real your walk with God/Jesus is", and even tell me that I'm wrong for "not having the same relationship with God/Jesus", but for me to sit in my living room, read from a book, pray to an unseen and un-felt God, . . . I found it IMpersonal at best. There is no "best friend beside me who I actually have a meaningful conversation with".

Furthermore, I can't see the document regarded as "the inspired Word of God" AS literally inspired. It does leave a person with a conondrum. What is God's words, and what is man's. My evidence is seen within the numberous denominations and doctrines, for if the Bible WERE truly and completely inspired, . . . you would have ONE denomination. ONE "doctrine of the church". ONE focus/goal, and everyone on the same page. On the contrary, each denomination believes that THEY are right, and their "Christian brothers are wrong on that doctrine". Those same "Christian brothers" would say the same things in turn.

This will probably be the last thing I say on this topic. You all can make the same claims over and over again, but just because you think you got it all figured out, . . . it doesn't necessarily make it so. I say all this respectfully, and trust that I will discover truth at some point down the road.

 

[biblecatholic]

Orion,


I will say that many Christians live a life less Christlike(like a pagan) than many witches and different types of pagans.

God is a God of Love and Mercy. He has judgments that will take place but that is only after every chance for Mercy has been ignored by the person. If a person wont accept His mercy He can't force it on them.....

I do think some people will be surprised to see who is in heaven, many christians will be saying "Lord, Lord"

The reason Christianity has declined in western culture- there are alot of causes. The enlightenment, the break-up of Christianity into thousands of denominations, corruption, sin, not being loving, Christians not looking a whole lot like Our Lord. We Christians are to be blamed for the failure. My personal sin effects the body of Christ(since we are one) then you add everyones elses sins and-whew...

Love conquers all and when people meet Christians who lives Love they say" if your savior is anything like you I'd like to meet Him"

 

[Orion]

The reason Christianity did a 180* turn around is because Gods people started
to get greedy, forgetting that he has his needs as well. We pray to win the
lottery :crazyeyes: we ask for this and we ask for that, have you ever tried
having a one on one with our creator, his door is open 24/7. Just talking to him
like you would talk to your best friend if there is such a thing on this earth. Talk to him like
the servant you are, ask him if "He" would like something. He is God after all
and he understands we have needs, he supplies all of our needs through Christ
Jesus.

I am unable to "talk to him like I would talk to my best friend". My best friend actually communicates back to me in a coherant and meaningful way. Words in a book, or thoughts in my head don't constitute a "best friendship". Maybe you make it work, somehow, but I wouldn't call it a "friendship" on any level.

 

[Alabaster]

I am unable to "talk to him like I would talk to my best friend". My best friend actually communicates back to me in a coherant and meaningful way. Words in a book, or thoughts in my head don't constitute a "best friendship". Maybe you make it work, somehow, but I wouldn't call it a "friendship" on any level.

That's right: words in a book or thoughts in your head do not a relationship make.

Jesus calls His own His friends. You need to meet Him!

 

[turnorburn]

Proverbs 17:17 17 A friend loveth at all times, and a brother is born for adversity
Matthew 11:11 19 The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.
Proverbs 18:24 24 A man that hath friends must shew himself friendly: and there is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother.
James 2:23 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God
Hebrews 11:6 6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

But none of this matters of course unless you have faith. :wink:

 

[Orion]

That's right: words in a book or thoughts in your head do not a relationship make.

Jesus calls His own His friends. You need to meet Him!

If it involves "faith that I'm actually meetin him", then I'll be in the same position I am now. But, while we're on this, . . . . how do YOU have a relationship other than reading the Bible (which you're supposed to feel, in your spirit, that God is "speaking to you through the words"), or praying (and gaining some sort of insight, and believing that "God is the one that put it there, not your own cognitive ability")?

 

[turnorburn]

:smt045 This is a truth, Alabaster may have one way to answer to your question and I quite another, are you asking Alabaster or me?

 

[Rick W]

You know that you know that you know. It's there and won't be denied. I've known two who have tried to deny the calling. One lasted for a while or so before giving in, ending his struggle. He's now the pastor of a thriving church in Salt Lake City.
Another was one of my mentors several years before I met him. He lasted about 3 weeks before surrendering. He's now in training to sponsor in-house discipleship/mentoring (live-ins) for their appropriate ministries by a christian bishop doing the same. Me? Well, I suppose I was too weak to resist.
Others have asked with genuine desire and have come to know the peace in that form of relationship. I've seen that happen at what's called alter call. My step-son was one of these.
It can happen in various ways but the results are the same. And you really don't realize just how binding the yoke of the world really is until it comes off. It's like... being born again. :wink:

 

[Orion]

Well, I'm leaving the computer for the night.

I do appreciate you all's concern. I'm well versed in what you all have been saying. I'm just one who can't find it personal. Perhaps I'll gain some insight at some point in the future.

 

[turnorburn]

Well don't do anything I wouldn't do and don't let Satan make a monkey out of you.
If you miss Christ while he is near you'll miss heaven :smt018

Well, I'm leaving the computer for the night.

I do appreciate you all's concern. I'm well versed in what you all have been saying. I'm just one who can't find it personal. Perhaps I'll gain some insight at some point in the future.

 

[Alabaster]

We are not made up of mere neurons. We are spiritual beings in a flesh house. When I met Jesus, I met my Designer! My Maker! My Lover!

He makes Himself so known that it is not possible to deny. Cognitive ability figures in, and also emotion--but we do not rely on feelings! Feelings are unreliable AT BEST. No--the Holy Spirit--the Spirit of Jesus, comes and lives within us and speaks to our spirits. Talking with Him and reading the Bible, He tells us what it means, and how to apply the truth we have just read. He develops us into mature spiritual people and recreates us into the image of the Son of God day by day.

It is a journey, and a joy.

 

[Orion]

Well don't do anything I wouldn't do and don't let Satan make a monkey out of you.
If you miss Christ while he is near you'll miss heaven :smt018

How do I discern that "Christ is near"?