Aren't these witchcraft practices?

[Orion]

We are not made up of mere neurons. We are spiritual beings in a flesh house. When I met Jesus, I met my Designer! My Maker! My Lover!

How do you discern what you believe? By the way, . . . the idea of "an intimate relationship with Jesus", or as you just put it, concerning Jesus as "My Lover", . . . has always been a bizarre concept for me, and a bit creapy. Same goes with a Christian being labeled as "the bride of Christ". I do not relish those concepts at all. :-?

He makes Himself so known that it is not possible to deny. Cognitive ability figures in, and also emotion--but we do not rely on feelings! Feelings are unreliable AT BEST. No--the Holy Spirit--the Spirit of Jesus, comes and lives within us and speaks to our spirits. Talking with Him and reading the Bible, He tells us what it means, and how to apply the truth we have just read. He develops us into mature spiritual people and recreates us into the image of the Son of God day by day.

It is a journey, and a joy.

How does he make himself known, . . . in what way? Cognitively, yes, there was a document written about Jesus. Emotions, however, are biased and unreliable, as you state.

How do you really know it is "the holy spirit speaking to your spirit", though? Again, it is a demonstration of "faith". As far as the holy spirit "telling you what what the meaning was (of the bible passage you just read), why is it that too many denominations are being told different things (presumably, by the holy spirit)? How do you know it isn't your own ability to subjectively take a text, and apply it to a situation in your own life? The Bible is, often, vague enough that one specific passage can be seen by two people, under completely different situations, and gain insight from the words. But if you were to read a secular "self help" book, you would probably gain similar insights from them, . . . so why would you insist that any insight, while reading the bible, is a supernatural spiritual thing?

 

[turnorburn]

Hold that thought I'm being called away

Well don't do anything I wouldn't do and don't let Satan make a monkey out of you.
If you miss Christ while he is near you'll miss heaven :smt018

How do I discern that "Christ is near"?

 

[Alabaster]

We are not made up of mere neurons. We are spiritual beings in a flesh house. When I met Jesus, I met my Designer! My Maker! My Lover!

How do you discern what you believe? By the way, . . . the idea of "an intimate relationship with Jesus", or as you just put it, concerning Jesus as "My Lover", . . . has always been a bizarre concept for me, and a bit creapy. Same goes with a Christian being labeled as "the bride of Christ". I do not relish those concepts at all. :-?

We relish them!

How does he make himself known, . . . in what way? Cognitively, yes, there was a document written about Jesus. Emotions, however, are biased and unreliable, as you state.

How do you really know it is "the holy spirit speaking to your spirit", though? Again, it is a demonstration of "faith". As far as the holy spirit "telling you what what the meaning was (of the bible passage you just read), why is it that too many denominations are being told different things (presumably, by the holy spirit)? How do you know it isn't your own ability to subjectively take a text, and apply it to a situation in your own life? The Bible is, often, vague enough that one specific passage can be seen by two people, under completely different situations, and gain insight from the words. But if you were to read a secular "self help" book, you would probably gain similar insights from them, . . . so why would you insist that any insight, while reading the bible, is a supernatural spiritual thing?

The Holy Spirit attests to Jesus Christ, HIMSELF. Our spirit is joined with Him---and knows Him.

Denominationalism is born out of the imperfect submission to truth He reveals. It is man's construct. God sees it, and He works with us in it and in spite of it.

The Bible is a LIVING document. It is SUPERNATURAL. That is why, when followed, it effects change in our lives....even for those who don't know Jesus Christ. God's principles are true and living and powerful. .

 

[Orion]

How does it change lives, really? If you had a secular book that extole the virtues of love, patience, kindness, self control, . . . helping the poor, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, etc., would it not be the same, except for the "eternal life" verses? You talk about it being "living", or "supernatural", but I don't see any evidence of it. Just because these morally advanced characteristics are in the bible, it doesn't mean that they have been exclusively given by it. These characteristics existed before the bible was a document.

Regardless, IF the holy spirit is placing doctrine in the hearts of men, then we should not have so many differing Christian denominations. There should BE no misunderstanding, if the bible WERE created and specifically written by a PERFECT being. Seems that too many concepts are either vague, or have another thought attached to them, that is contrary (sometimes) than another passage.

So, you can see why I don't see the bible as "living" or "supernatural". It is WAY too open for opinion/interpretation.

Therefore, this is why I cannot take IT as some sort of "avenue to reach/commune with God". This isn't a "rebellion" or even a "rejection". It is my take on this subject and I have no idea how or IF it will change.

 

[Alabaster]

How does it change lives, really? If you had a secular book that extole the virtues of love, patience, kindness, self control, . . . helping the poor, feeding the hungry, visiting the sick, etc., would it not be the same, except for the "eternal life" verses? You talk about it being "living", or "supernatural", but I don't see any evidence of it. Just because these morally advanced characteristics are in the bible, it doesn't mean that they have been exclusively given by it. These characteristics existed before the bible was a document.

Regardless, IF the holy spirit is placing doctrine in the hearts of men, then we should not have so many differing Christian denominations. There should BE no misunderstanding, if the bible WERE created and specifically written by a PERFECT being. Seems that too many concepts are either vague, or have another thought attached to them, that is contrary (sometimes) than another passage.

So, you can see why I don't see the bible as "living" or "supernatural". It is WAY too open for opinion/interpretation.

Therefore, this is why I cannot take IT as some sort of "avenue to reach/commune with God". This isn't a "rebellion" or even a "rejection". It is my take on this subject and I have no idea how or IF it will change.

The Bible is inspired by a perfect Being--God. Nothing is vague, or imperfectly conveyed. It is only the imperfection of man--his mind and sinfulness that clouds his understanding. The life-changing that occurs is NOT due to mind over matter changes WE effect. They are changes caused by God creating us anew--making us new creatures!

2 Corinthians 5:17 NLT
This means that anyone who belongs to Christ has become a new person. The old life is gone; a new life has begun!


You may not see the Word of God as alive and powerful, but it is! He says so!

Hebrews 4:12 NLT
For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

All you need to do is believe it, ask God for the faith to do so, and it will be given. You aren't a hard case, Orion. You are worthy of His love and salvation. He desires you to know Him. WILL you?

 

[Orion]

I disagree. A TRULY inspired work from a perfect deity would not leave room for "simple human interpretation of it". These various denominations believe that THEY are right and that the others have "missed the boat on that doctrine"! :-?

 

[Rick W]

How in the world is a perfect work going to be perfectly interpreted by imperfection???
And how can imperfection demand perfection then know it when that demand is fulfilled???

It's like writting the perfect program then expecting an imperfect computer to run it perfectly.

 

[Alabaster]

I disagree. A TRULY inspired work from a perfect deity would not leave room for "simple human interpretation of it". These various denominations believe that THEY are right and that the others have "missed the boat on that doctrine"! :-?

The perfect God knows what He's doing. The truth is plain to see to those who are being led to see it. The Holy spirit opens the eyes of understanding.

He knows that we will misunderstand things, but He is faithful by His Spirit to make it known to us weaklings!

Those who refuse to see, call it all foolishness.

1 Corinthians 2:14 NLT
But people who aren’t spiritual can’t receive these truths from God’s Spirit. It all sounds foolish to them and they can’t understand it, for only those who are spiritual can understand what the Spirit means.

1 Corinthians 1:18 NLT
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

 

[Orion]

Alabaster, I appreciate your perserverence here, but you haven't really answered my point.

It isn't that there are "misunderstandings" on simple issues, there are vaste debates on vitally important topics that should have never been "up for debate" due to their extreme importance.

 

[turnorburn]

Remember when I said hold that thought I had been called away? I did that so I might
be able to answer your question How do I discern that "Christ is near"? now if I wouldn't
have come back you night have started to wonder if I ever would. That's how it is with him.
he's there then he isn't and you've missed heaven. When you hear his still small voice
you had best seize the opportunity, now that I think about it I should have waited a
week.. :wink:

Orion wrote:

turnorburn wrote:Well don't do anything I wouldn't do and don't let Satan make a monkey out of you.
If you miss Christ while he is near you'll miss heaven :smt018



How do I discern that "Christ is near"?

 

[Alabaster]

Alabaster, I appreciate your perserverence here, but you haven't really answered my point.

It isn't that there are "misunderstandings" on simple issues, there are vaste debates on vitally important topics that should have never been "up for debate" due to their extreme importance.

All based on poor understanding. The Holy Spirit must contend with the filter of the human brain!

 

[Orion]

Well, not sure what to say to that. I haven't heard any "small voices in my head". Just my own thoughts.

 

[turnorburn]

Have a fire side chat with him and you won't be sorry.

Here is your answer Orian it was the best I could do, its from Gods word again now see the
great love he has for us. He is so sweet and gentle all he wants to do is touch you. Jeremiah 29:

11 For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.
12 Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you.
13 And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart.

 

[Orion]

It is still all a matter of faith, though. Nothing actually tangible is perceived. That's been my problem for many years now.

 

[Alabaster]

Well, not sure what to say to that. I haven't heard any "small voices in my head". Just my own thoughts.

Not all our thoughts are our own. some are planted and some grow (on our own power) out of impressions that have been planted. The devil does it a lot, creating negative thoughts that may be based on a basic truth, but we take it and develop it, and take it as our truth. I have suffered that.

The Holy Spirit also impresses our minds and causes us the think things which are good and wholesome, but because we have flesh and blood brains, we can easily and innocently distort what we have received and conclude something totally different than what was given. I have witnessed that.

 

[Orion]

Problem is, it is STILL a matter of faith as to which thoughts are mine, God's, or "Satan's". Even so, there are many self help books that give the reader the idea of "thinking positively".

 

[Alabaster]

Problem is, it is STILL a matter of faith as to which thoughts are mine, God's, or "Satan's". Even so, there are many self help books that give the reader the idea of "thinking positively".

Self-help books have their place, but the Book which God wrote for us has ALL the answers. God-help is so much more superior! Knowing the Author is the key.

Thinking positive thoughts is not the "whole enchilada"! We receive wisdom from God when we consult with Him in His Word daily.

 

[Orion]

But I don't see the Canon (Bible) as a book that God wrote, so . . . . . . :-?

 

[Alabaster]

But I don't see the Canon (Bible) as a book that God wrote, so . . . . . . :-?

While you have the right to deny it---you are wrong, and sadly so, and that is why you haven't the power of God in your life, and cannot see Him. One can only know God by a revelation of the Holy Spirit. I will pray for Him to awaken you to Jesus Christ and His truth.

 

[Orion]

While you have the right to deny it---you are wrong, and sadly so, and that is why you haven't the power of God in your life, and cannot see Him. One can only know God by a revelation of the Holy Spirit. I will pray for Him to awaken you to Jesus Christ and His truth.

That is solely your (and the Christian chruch's) opinion, though. You have no more proof that it was than any other religious text that claims to be divine. Revelation of the Holy Spirit is, again, based on YOUR faith that YOU believe it iS from a supernatural source and not your own head. So, you don't have a firm foot to stand on when you say that "I am wrong". Your stance is admirable, but it doesn't make it absolute.

Sure, pray. But if the revelation is nothing more than me having faith in it, it wasn't much of a revelation.