Aren't these witchcraft practices?

[Havoc]

You indicated that you believe in God, from where did you recieve this belief, and, are you a monotheist?

I'd like to follow through with "are you a monotheist"?
Another participant had posted an email from a witch also professing to be Wiccan that stated "I work with Angels and other gods and goddesses"
Unfortunately I see the email has since been deleted and only my quoted statement above remains.

anyway,
Do you agree with this?

I would say that the word "Angel" is a bit of a holdover from Christianity. A more appropriate term might be Fae, or Elfheim.

Some Witches relate to the Divine more closely by way of God's many faces. Some relate more closely to the Divine by way of God as The One. Neither is incorrect from our point of view.

 

[Rick W]

Some Witches relate to the Divine more closely by way of God's many faces. Some relate more closely to the Divine by way of God as The One. Neither is incorrect from our point of view.

Yes, I think I've heard that before.

But in many instances Wiccans talk of deities when asking for something or making an offering. God is one deity, not many. The attributes of God are not deities or Gods. God IS deity. Not a summation of gods.
Some pagan gods I've found Wiccans may also hold as diety.

Artemis - Goddess of the Hunt
Brighid - Hearth Goddess of Ireland
Cerridwen: Keeper of the Cauldron
Freyja - Goddess of Abundance and Fertility
Herne, God of the Wild Hunt
Isis: Mother Goddess of Ancient Egypt
Lugh, Master of Skills
Odin - Ruler of the Norse Gods
Osiris - King of Egyptian Gods

There are:
Hearth and Home Gods
Gods of Love and Passion
Garden/Nature Deities
Gods of Prosperity and Abundance
Ancestor Spirits
Childbirth or Fertility Godesses

All of which may require certain offerings.
These are not just attributes of a single god but dieties within their own right. Notice the word "Gods" is plural.

I've seen the same type of reasoning (one God but many) offered to change the reading of the bible...
This is actual "scripture" from another religion.

3 And they (the Gods) said: Let there be light; and there was light.
4 And they (the Gods) comprehended the light, for it was bright; and they divided the light, or caused it to be divided, from the darkness.
5 And the Gods called the light Day, and the darkness they called Night. And it came to pass that from the evening until morning they called night; and from the morning until the evening they called day; and this was the first, or the beginning, of that which they called day and night.
6 And the Gods also said: Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and it shall divide the waters from the waters.
7 And the Gods ordered the expanse, so that it divided the waters which were under the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so, even as they ordered.
8 And the Gods called the expanse, Heaven. And it came to pass that it was from evening until morning that they called night; and it came to pass that it was from morning until evening that they called day; and this was the second time that they called night and day.

And yet another religion changes scripture and claims that as their bible.
One example:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Was changed to read:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God.

All of these are based on changing/editing/deleting certain passages to fit the religion's belief from that of Christian scripture. Each is a deviant form of the bible. And each wants to claim a Christian basis when confronted with the Christianity of the Holy Bible. Wiccan is no different. It too wants the bible to support it's practice by changing the original or claiming the Christian bible is wrong. And each wants to be just like Christianity but better.

 

[Orion]

You indicated that you believe in God, from where did you recieve this belief, and, are you a monotheist?

I'd like to follow through with "are you a monotheist"?
Another participant had posted an email from a witch also professing to be Wiccan that stated "I work with Angels and other gods and goddesses"
Unfortunately I see the email has since been deleted and only my quoted statement above remains.

anyway,
Do you agree with this?

I would say that the word "Angel" is a bit of a holdover from Christianity. A more appropriate term might be Fae, or Elfheim.

Some Witches relate to the Divine more closely by way of God's many faces. Some relate more closely to the Divine by way of God as The One. Neither is incorrect from our point of view.

I posted that email, though I'm not sure why it was deleted. I didn't do it.

Yes, "Angels" is a holdover from Christianity (my brother who heard God telling him to follow the path he is on). Sounds a bit like you, Havoc. My brother knows, without a doubt, that it was the same voice that spoke to him as a teenager in church.

Havoc, I would like to talk to you more about Celtic Reconstructionist Wiccanism, though obviously not here. :wink:

Oh, and the vandalism in that church wasn't anything other than a couple of freaks thinking it would be funny to do what they did. Not anything having to do with any specific religion

 

[Alabaster]

Satan is a great deceiver and has even got you to believe he doesn't exist! Typical! He has done his job well in many.

Or Satan doesn't exist at all, and you are the one who has been decieved. In the absence of objective evidence, one is just as likely as the other.

Do you want objective evidence of Satan? Just ask him...he'll be only too willing to oblige you!

 

[Havoc]

Do you want objective evidence of Satan? Just ask him...he'll be only too willing to oblige you!

I'm sorry, how would you expect me to ask something of someone I don't believe exists?

The act of asking something with any degree of sincerity at all would require me to believe that the being I'm asking exists.

What you've suggested makes for good religious slogan casting, but as a solution to our impasse, it's very weak.

 

[Alabaster]

Do you want objective evidence of Satan? Just ask him...he'll be only too willing to oblige you!

I'm sorry, how would you expect me to ask something of someone I don't believe exists?

The act of asking something with any degree of sincerity at all would require me to believe that the being I'm asking exists.

What you've suggested makes for good religious slogan casting, but as a solution to our impasse, it's very weak.

I matters not to me.

You have been given truth numerous times. You will be held accountable for what you did with it. It is your choice to either accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour or reject Him. Either way, you will in the end, bend your knee and declare Jesus Christ as King of all kings and Lord of all lords. Either in worship or in horror---it will be done.

 

[Havoc]

I matters not to me.

Really? Then why do you keep up with your spurious insistence that you are right and I am wrong, even though you cannot begin to show that is the case? It seems like you've wasted an awful lot of keystrokes on something that doesn't matter to you... or perhaps the grapes are sour anyways?

You have been given truth numerous times.

Yes I have, thank God, and followed it faithfully.

You will be held accountable for what you did with it. It is your choice to either accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour or reject Him.

It's my choice to do as God tells me, not what you tell me. I do hope you'll forgive me for that.

Either way, you will in the end, bend your knee and declare Jesus Christ as King of all kings and Lord of all lords.

No I won't.

Either in worship or in horror---it will be done.

Horror?
Do you really think threatening people with eternal torture is an effective way to witness in this day and age? Accept this version of God or suffer hellfire sounds more like extortion than salvation.

Fortunately, God doesn't have any intention of torturing any of His children, so I'm quite safe in His arms. But thank you for your kind concern.

 

[Alabaster]

That's right. God will never throw His children into the fire, but He will cast those who are NOT His children there...those who have not known the Saviour, Jesus Christ.

 

[Rick W]

In addition:
Acknowledging the wrath of God is very much a part of repentance. It may not be a popular concept these days in this "Feel good" society but social opinion has little to do with it.

 

[Orion]

I know what Havoc is saying, as I have thought along those very same lines before, and still do. The "my way or the highway (to hell)" DOES sound like an extortion. This issue has always concerned me because ultimatums are rarely a helpful way to handle situations. And it all has to do with believing one set of words over another, . . .as Havoc points out correctly, . . .without any evidence.

 

[Rick W]

There can be no true repentance without acknowledgment of punishment, reflection on one's sins and a humble heart toward God. I'll not falsify those truths just to get approval from a world against God. Christ is the ONLY way out of death row Orion. This isn't a game of who can make who feel the best. This is a struggle for eternal life and not a competition to see who can woo the most followers. I'll not sugarcoat the truth to make it look good. You either join Christ in His love for you or you don't. He died on the cross for you and me. He took it all. He was quite serious about the seriousness of sin. He wasn't playing games.

 

[Alabaster]

I know what Havoc is saying, as I have thought along those very same lines before, and still do. The "my way or the highway (to hell)" DOES sound like an extortion. This issue has always concerned me because ultimatums are rarely a helpful way to handle situations. And it all has to do with believing one set of words over another, . . .as Havoc points out correctly, . . .without any evidence.

Hebrews 11:1
NOW FAITH is the assurance (the confirmation, the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

 

[Havoc]

Which is why I make my appeal to faith, as opposed to facts I cannot substantiate. You should try discussing from faith Alabaster. It's very freeing.

 

[Alabaster]

Which is why I make my appeal to faith, as opposed to facts I cannot substantiate. You should try discussing from faith Alabaster. It's very freeing.

It is all about faith, sir. faith on the solid Rock. Jesus Christ.

Romans 9:33
God warned them of this in the Scriptures when he said,

“I am placing a stone in Jerusalem that makes people stumble,
a rock that makes them fall.
But anyone who trusts in him
will never be disgraced.â€Â

 

[turnorburn]

Havoc wrote:Which is why I make my appeal to faith, as opposed to facts I cannot substantiate. You should try discussing from faith Alabaster. It's very freeing.

Havoc I would like you to do something and no its not flying a kite. Do you have a bible
at home or do you have access to one? If you do look in Hebrews :-D

Chapter 11

1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
2 For by it the elders obtained a good report.
3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

[Orion]

There can be no true repentance without acknowledgment of punishment, reflection on one's sins and a humble heart toward God. I'll not falsify those truths just to get approval from a world against God. Christ is the ONLY way out of death row Orion. This isn't a game of who can make who feel the best. This is a struggle for eternal life and not a competition to see who can woo the most followers. I'll not sugarcoat the truth to make it look good. You either join Christ in His love for you or you don't. He died on the cross for you and me. He took it all. He was quite serious about the seriousness of sin. He wasn't playing games.

There is reason for punishment of crimes, yes, . . . . but not the way most Christians seem to push it, . . .the "everlasting punishment". And, by the way, it's not like I am constantly out there inventing new ways to commit sins. I can have self control all on my own. I don't believe in an "eternal Hell", but do believe that there is a God who actually does love everyone, even "while they were still sinners". But it isn't about "sin" anyway, for Christianity. You can be a person who sins all the time, repents of it, and still makes heaven. You can be a superior person, who shuns acts of "sin", yet because of a personal decision, is "damned". So, "repenting" has nothing to do with being "good before God", according to Christianity. Right?

By the way, Jesus's love for me is affected by decisions I happen to make?

And, what does it mean to "join Christ", in your opinion?

 

[Alabaster]

There can be no true repentance without acknowledgment of punishment, reflection on one's sins and a humble heart toward God. I'll not falsify those truths just to get approval from a world against God. Christ is the ONLY way out of death row Orion. This isn't a game of who can make who feel the best. This is a struggle for eternal life and not a competition to see who can woo the most followers. I'll not sugarcoat the truth to make it look good. You either join Christ in His love for you or you don't. He died on the cross for you and me. He took it all. He was quite serious about the seriousness of sin. He wasn't playing games.

There is reason for punishment of crimes, yes, . . . . but not the way most Christians seem to push it, . . .the "everlasting punishment". And, by the way, it's not like I am constantly out there inventing new ways to commit sins. I can have self control all on my own. I don't believe in an "eternal Hell", but do believe that there is a God who actually does love everyone, even "while they were still sinners". But it isn't about "sin" anyway, for Christianity. You can be a person who sins all the time, repents of it, and still makes heaven. You can be a superior person, who shuns acts of "sin", yet because of a personal decision, is "damned". So, "repenting" has nothing to do with being "good before God", according to Christianity. Right?

By the way, Jesus's love for me is affected by decisions I happen to make?

And, what does it mean to "join Christ", in your opinion?

You have just denied the gospel message of salvation.

 

[turnorburn]

You make us out to be evil people that preach a gospel of doom and gloom Orion.
I'd like you to remember something here, we Christians didn't write the
rules for salvation, Jesus suffered the most horrible death, back in that day crucifixion was considered to be the worst form of execution devised by mankind. And to sit here
reading your post thinking he did it all for you, aren't you just a little bit ashamed? :

How could you say this Orion??

(There is reason for punishment of crimes, yes, . . . . but not the way most Christians seem to push it, . . .the "everlasting punishment". And, by the way, it's not like I am constantly out there inventing new ways to commit sins. I can have self control all on my own. I don't believe in an "eternal Hell", but do believe that there is a God who actually does love everyone, even "while they were still sinners". But it isn't about "sin" anyway, for Christianity. You can be a person who sins all the time, repents of it, and still makes heaven. You can be a superior person, who shuns acts of "sin", yet because of a personal decision, is "damned". So, "repenting" has nothing to do with being "good before God", according to Christianity. Right?)

 

[turnorburn]

Listen to Handel its wonderful..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnHksDFHTQI

There can be no true repentance without acknowledgment of punishment, reflection on one's sins and a humble heart toward God. I'll not falsify those truths just to get approval from a world against God. Christ is the ONLY way out of death row Orion. This isn't a game of who can make who feel the best. This is a struggle for eternal life and not a competition to see who can woo the most followers. I'll not sugarcoat the truth to make it look good. You either join Christ in His love for you or you don't. He died on the cross for you and me. He took it all. He was quite serious about the seriousness of sin. He wasn't playing games.

There is reason for punishment of crimes, yes, . . . . but not the way most Christians seem to push it, . . .the "everlasting punishment". And, by the way, it's not like I am constantly out there inventing new ways to commit sins. I can have self control all on my own. I don't believe in an "eternal Hell", but do believe that there is a God who actually does love everyone, even "while they were still sinners". But it isn't about "sin" anyway, for Christianity. You can be a person who sins all the time, repents of it, and still makes heaven. You can be a superior person, who shuns acts of "sin", yet because of a personal decision, is "damned". So, "repenting" has nothing to do with being "good before God", according to Christianity. Right?

By the way, Jesus's love for me is affected by decisions I happen to make?

And, what does it mean to "join Christ", in your opinion?

 

[Alabaster]

And, what does it mean to "join Christ", in your opinion?

Ephesians 2:18-21
Now all of us can come to the Father through the same Holy Spirit because of what Christ has done for us.
A Temple for the Lord
So now you Gentiles are no longer strangers and foreigners. You are citizens along with all of God’s holy people. You are members of God’s family. Together, we are his house, built on the foundation of the apostles and the prophets. And the cornerstone is Christ Jesus himself. We are carefully joined together in him, becoming a holy temple for the Lord.