At the revelation of Jesus Christ...

[smaller]

If this doesn't say it all then what does..?

I'll tell Jesus you can have my ten cities if they are physical cites filled with unbelieving Jews over whom YOU will judge.

And good luck with those 20 cities! I'm sure however you'll need the Holy Spirit Himself to assist in that matter.

I'll be looking to relocate somewhere in the countryside.

too funny.

s

 

[smaller]

dup

 

[smaller]

This isn't about the church of God.. it didn't yet exist when this promise was made to His Apostles..

The context is concerning His twelve Apostles... but of course I'm sure you already knew that.. and must simply scoff at it as if it's something other than what it says in simplicity and truth...

But then of course we already know that there shall be scoffers in the last days who literally deny His coming in power and great glory.. with ten thousands of His saints..

For many.. this is all simply fairy tales..

Ah, no, you will notice in the prior citing from Matt. 19 that those disciples who 'follow Him' are also included in those measures. It is not just the 12 Apostles but ALL of His disciples, unless one wants to eliminate any Word of Jesus to the disciples as only applicable to the 12 originals.

And by that measure one may as well toss the text as inapplicable to themselves.

s

 

[Eventide]

Ah.. but it is.. as Luke 22 affirms... but then again you knew that too.. and no doubt there are going to literally be multitudes who shall live and reign with Christ in that Day.. the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ..

Regardless of what the scoffers say...

 

[Eventide]

Revelation 4-20 describes the DAY OF THE LORD in miraculous detail... but then again... these are all fairy tales to the many who scoff at the living and powerful word of God..

It's not like the Apostles didn't warn us of these things..

 

[smaller]

Ultimately all of those expressions are meant to convey this fact:

2 Corinthians 6:16
And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

You might even see these are 'future tense' matters as 'will' not 'now.' Now we have a deposit. A seed of promise.

The fullness of when that happens is when we get 'our own land,' here, Our NEW Body:

1 Cor. 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?


Did this happen in 70 a.d? Uh, no.


And let us not look at our factual current conditions either. Heaven forbid we should speak honestly about corruption, weakness and dishonor.


Let's just pretend we are somethings we are not, in the name of God of course.



s

 

[Eventide]

It is at least encouraging to see that some understand that the resurrection of the dead is a future reality... because that is our hope.. and that of course is undeniably connected to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power and great glory.. even with thousands upon thousands of His saints.. in that DAY, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.. which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..

At the revelation (or unveiling) of Jesus Christ..

And of course as mentioned already... that's WHEN the Son of man shall sit upon the THRONE of His GLORY and when His Apostles shall also sit upon twelve thrones.. judging the twelve tribes of Israel..

And of course when the Kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ..

 

[JLB]

It is at least encouraging to see that some understand that the resurrection of the dead is a future reality... because that is our hope.. and that of course is undeniably connected to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ in power and great glory.. even with thousands upon thousands of His saints.. in that DAY, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.. which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..

At the revelation (or unveiling) of Jesus Christ..

And of course as mentioned already... that's WHEN the Son of man shall sit upon the THRONE of His GLORY and when His Apostles shall also sit upon twelve thrones.. judging the twelve tribes of Israel..

And of course when the Kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and of His Christ..

Amen to that!

Furthermore -

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.


He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.


JLB

 

[Eventide]

Amen to that!

Furthermore -

27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.


He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.


JLB

I'll AMEN that !

It's always a pleasure reading your posts JLB.. you're a refreshing voice around here..

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Eventide,

It is at least encouraging to see that some understand that the resurrection of the dead is a future reality... because that is our hope.

This is true, and I agree with this statement. The resurrection is still yet future.

We are 'now' dead and raised up with Christ in "the earnest of our inheritance". However, even though we are dead and buried and resurrected with Christ "in earnest", we still have "the redemption of the purchased possession", to anticipate:

Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
Romans 6:2 "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"
Romans 6:3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection."


When are we to be "in the 'likeness' of His resurrection"?

Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."


It is spoken (above) of in spirit, as an accomplished fact. But this is only in the 'stage' of being "sealed with the holy spirit of promise" at this time, "UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession."

Ephesians 1:14 "Which is the earnest of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession [the ACTUAL resurrection], unto the praise of his glory."

 

[Eventide]

This is true, and I agree with this statement. The resurrection is still yet future.

We are 'now' dead and raised up with Christ in "the earnest of our inheritance". However, even though we are dead and buried and resurrected with Christ "in earnest", we still have "the redemption of the purchased possession", to anticipate:

Romans 6:1 "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?"
Romans 6:2 "God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"
Romans 6:3 "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?"
Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."
Romans 6:5 "For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection."


When are we to be "in the 'likeness' of His resurrection"?

Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."


It is spoken (above) of in spirit, as an accomplished fact. But this is only in the 'stage' of being "sealed with the holy spirit of promise" at this time, "UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession."

Ephesians 1:14 "Which is the earnest of our inheritance UNTIL the redemption of the purchased possession [the ACTUAL resurrection], unto the praise of his glory."

AMEN to this as well Os.. Couldn't agree more..

 

[Eventide]

The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

Perhaps one of the greatest reasons why the nation of Israel missed the LORD coming the first time... is because of all the OT prophecy concerning the LORD coming the second time..

In power and great glory.. in that day.. the Day of the LORD...

Should Israel have known that the LORD would be coming twice..?

It's easy for us to see.. although they were most likely looking for the coming of the LORD in the DAY of the LORD.. as it is described in miraculous detail through the Prophets of the ancient OT scriptures.. which were entrusted to that very nation..

The Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ make it abundantly clear that the DAY OF THE LORD is a future reality.. so the LORD coming the first time was clearly NOT the fulfillment of OT prophecy concerning the Day of the Lord, when He comes the second time, apart from sin.. unto salvation..

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

It's vital for the Christian to understand the distinction between the Israel of God and the church of God.. and more importantly to not be ignorant of the mystery pertaining to Israel with respect to their blindness in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in...

Eschatology (or the theology of end times) will be very confusing if the distinction is ignored between the earthly entity of Israel as compared to the church of God which is the LORD's future BRIDE and WIFE.. and which is also a heavenly entity.. with our citizenship not being on earth.. but rather in heaven.

The LORD continues building His church today while that nation remains judicially blinded and cut off from the root which is CHRIST.. and in that DAY they're going to be grafted back into CHRIST.. when the LORD does reveal Himself to the very nation which sold Him off to the Gentiles long ago.. and they'll also know in that Day that He is truly their LORD and their GOD.. just as Thomas openly confessed..

And of course we know that this is all foretold in miraculous ways throughout the ancient OT scriptures.. and in the NT as well.. for in the volume of the book it is written of HIM.

 

[Eventide]

No basis in scripture...

IMO.. the most destructive teachings with respect to eschatology are..

1. Replacement Theology which basically teaches that the church of God is now Israel..

2. Amillennialism.. Which teaches that this present evil world is NOW the kingdom of God

3. Preterism.. Which is simply nonsense.

I'm sure that there are more.. Although these seem to be the most obvious errors today..

 

[smaller]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

Perhaps one of the greatest reasons why the nation of Israel missed the LORD coming the first time... is because of all the OT prophecy concerning the LORD coming the second time..

In power and great glory.. in that day.. the Day of the LORD...

Should Israel have known that the LORD would be coming twice..?

God has always chosen to reveal Himself in certain ways after certain fashions, and also to NOT reveal Himself.

Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Revelation itself is about 'revealings.' Believers are saved by 'revelation,' that is, God in Christ revealing Himself to us.

And there are other revealings as well.

It's easy for us to see.. although they were most likely looking for the coming of the LORD in the DAY of the LORD.. as it is described in miraculous detail through the Prophets of the ancient OT scriptures.. which were entrusted to that very nation..

The Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ make it abundantly clear that the DAY OF THE LORD is a future reality.. so the LORD coming the first time was clearly NOT the fulfillment of OT prophecy concerning the Day of the Lord, when He comes the second time, apart from sin.. unto salvation..

If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Jesus often framed these matters is 'why's and how's.' Part of that delivery is request us to also ponder how and why these matters are 'so.'

"Why are you so dull" is one of my favorites. Problem is, when 'believers' read that they NEVER think of themselves that way, and go immediately into the 'auto-reject' zone. And that is part of the phenomena.

When Peter pledged his dying allegiance prior to the cross, Jesus basically advised him that he would in fact be doing the exact opposite.

It's vital for the Christian to understand the distinction between the Israel of God and the church of God.. and more importantly to not be ignorant of the mystery pertaining to Israel with respect to their blindness in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in...

There is a lot of 'fleshly' understanding about Israel. Spiritually speaking believers are both Hebrews (wanderers in this present wicked world looking for a heavenly city) and Jews internally, that is, divided in heart from the evil we also factually carry.

In "Israel" God showed us all the facts of our conditions, JUDGED those facts quite harshly, and made certain promises to ISRAEL, which means God Prevails.

It is quite pointless to understand Israel in flesh terms.

Eschatology (or the theology of end times) will be very confusing if the distinction is ignored between the earthly entity of Israel as compared to the church of God which is the LORD's future BRIDE and WIFE.. and which is also a heavenly entity.. with our citizenship not being on earth.. but rather in heaven.

The basis of eschatology is the division from and judgment of all evil, sin and death, and it's final ending as a reality.

Most just gloss the matters up in a rosy scenario for themselves. The facts will be just the opposite, there will be a ripping division. The 'church' itself is an example of what is actually going on, with nearly every person divided against each others, exactly as the O.T. foretells. Judgment after all does begin in the house of God.

The LORD continues building His church today while that nation remains judicially blinded and cut off from the root which is CHRIST.. and in that DAY they're going to be grafted back into CHRIST.. when the LORD does reveal Himself to the very nation which sold Him off to the Gentiles long ago.. and they'll also know in that Day that He is truly their LORD and their GOD.. just as Thomas openly confessed..

There is no sect today that is 'the church.' There are many 'individuals' that comprise His called out ones. Various forms of sectarian allegiance does not constitute His Church.

s

 

[Eventide]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

God has always chosen to reveal Himself in certain ways after certain fashions, and also to NOT reveal Himself.

Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

Revelation itself is about 'revealings.' Believers are saved by 'revelation,' that is, God in Christ revealing Himself to us.

And there are other revealings as well.

The point is about how easy it is for the church to see that there are two comings of Christ.. whereas Israel might have had a very difficult time seeing that, especially if they were looking at OT prophecy concerning the DAY OF THE LORD.. which remains a future prophecy even for us.. the church of God.

On a personal basis it all remains the same.. many Israelites gladly received Him of course and many rejected Him.. although the leaders ultimately rejected CHRIST and they were CUT OFF from the root.. then of course Paul was raised up to bring the gospel to the GENTILES.. and of course the gospel continues to go out to the Gentiles today while that nation remains blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in..

These things can't be ignored.. lest we become wise in our own conceits..

Jesus often framed these matters is 'why's and how's.' Part of that delivery is request us to also ponder how and why these matters are 'so.'

"Why are you so dull" is one of my favorites. Problem is, when 'believers' read that they NEVER think of themselves that way, and go immediately into the 'auto-reject' zone. And that is part of the phenomena.

When Peter pledged his dying allegiance prior to the cross, Jesus basically advised him that he would in fact be doing the exact opposite.

Not sure what this has to do with the fact that the Day of the Lord is a future reality with respect to the things which shall be hereafter.

There is a lot of 'fleshly' understanding about Israel. Spiritually speaking believers are both Hebrews (wanderers in this present wicked world looking for a heavenly city) and Jews internally, that is, divided in heart from the evil we also factually carry.

In "Israel" God showed us all the facts of our conditions, JUDGED those facts quite harshly, and made certain promises to ISRAEL, which means God Prevails.

It is quite pointless to understand Israel in flesh terms.

If you believe that the church of God is Israel, then that's not correct imo.. we're not Israelites.. we're CHRISTians and that's obviously because we are IN CHRIST.. members of HIS BODY.. and in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile..

The nation of Israel is presently NOT in Christ.. they're blinded in part UNTIL the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.. and once again, they're cut off from the root which is Christ.. The commonwealth of Israel IS Christ.. not Israel..

This is why end times or eschatology largely concerns the DELIVERANCE of the nation of ISRAEL... because in that Day the entire world is going to come against them.. led by the man of sin himself.. whom the LORD shall destroy with the brightness of HIS COMING..

The basis of eschatology is the division from and judgment of all evil, sin and death, and it's final ending as a reality.

Most just gloss the matters up in a rosy scenario for themselves. The facts will be just the opposite, there will be a ripping division. The 'church' itself is an example of what is actually going on, with nearly every person divided against each others, exactly as the O.T. foretells. Judgment after all does begin in the house of God.


There is no sect today that is 'the church.' There are many 'individuals' that comprise His called out ones. Various forms of sectarian allegiance does not constitute His Church.

s

Eschatology is simply the theology of end times.. which tends to get spiritualized away today.. although we should be able to see that DAY approaching.. and we know it shall come as a thief in the night.. and as travail upon a woman with child.

The church of God is the Lamb's wife.. and no doubt that shall be the most staggering event this universe could ever witness.. the marriage of God's Son to His Bride..

We can't even begin to understand the depth of that.. and there's infinitely more to come in that Day.. at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

 

[Eventide]

Thy Kingdom come...

Scripture will become amazingly clear with respect to end times... when the clear distinction is seen and understood between the EARTHLY entity which we know as the Israel of God.. and the HEAVENLY entity known in the scriptures as the church of God..

They're not the same thing..

Israel is an earthly entity with a seemingly gazillion 'earthly' ordinances.. all with respect to the twelve sons of JACOB... right here on EARTH... there's limitless OT scripture concerning ISRAEL.. and how they operated within the confines of the Law of Moses.. before the coming of the LORD..

That has nothing to do with the church of God.. and of course the church did not exist until that first Pentecost arrived.. following the life, death, burial, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ... and we're to set our affections on the things above, and not on the things on earth.. because our citizenship is in HEAVEN..

There are two important things we should know concerning the coming Day of the LORD.. that it shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child...

The end times concern the DELIVERANCE of the nation of ISRAEL.. and the Lord Jesus Christ is going to reveal Himself to them.. in their deepest time of need.. just as Joseph did many years ago.. and Jacob learned late in his life that the son of his old age was alive and ruler over all..

There's infinitely more to come in that Day.. at the revelation of Jesus Christ..

 

[smaller]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

The point is about how easy it is for the church to see that there are two comings of Christ.. whereas Israel might have had a very difficult time seeing that, especially if they were looking at OT prophecy concerning the DAY OF THE LORD.. which remains a future prophecy even for us.. the church of God.

The notion you put in play is that Jesus left us. I don't consider that to be a factual condition. It will remain quite pointless to expect to see a FLESH JESUS arrival as we know Him after the flesh no longer.

On a personal basis it all remains the same.. many Israelites gladly received Him of course and many rejected Him.. although the leaders ultimately rejected CHRIST and they were CUT OFF from the root.. then of course Paul was raised up to bring the gospel to the GENTILES.. and of course the gospel continues to go out to the Gentiles today while that nation remains blinded in part until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in..

These things can't be ignored.. lest we become wise in our own conceits..

God can take the wrapper off anytime, individually or corporately. I have taken great interest in the 'wrapper' as that is the basic cause of all divisions, and it is an internal matter as well, for each individual.

Not sure what this has to do with the fact that the Day of the Lord is a future reality with respect to the things which shall be hereafter.

That matter encompasses many matters. Rev. is no piece of cake to get through.

If you believe that the church of God is Israel, then that's not correct imo.. we're not Israelites.. we're CHRISTians and that's obviously because we are IN CHRIST.. members of HIS BODY.. and in Christ there is neither Jew or Gentile..

You don't see it because you only see Israel as a fleshly people matter. Nothing more than that.

The nation of Israel is presently NOT in Christ.. they're blinded in part UNTIL the fulness of the GENTILES be come in.. and once again, they're cut off from the root which is Christ.. The commonwealth of Israel IS Christ.. not Israel..

To me the fleshly nation of Israel is no different than any other nation or people.

Many try to pin matters of eschatology on fleshly physical nations. That isn't the case whatsoever.

I don't deny that they as a group of flesh folk were called out and the matters of God revealed therein, in their history and lineage. Abundant showings. What they may mean is obviously subject to various methods of dissections.

This is why end times or eschatology largely concerns the DELIVERANCE of the nation of ISRAEL... because in that Day the entire world is going to come against them.. led by the man of sin himself.. whom the LORD shall destroy with the brightness of HIS COMING..

Typical christian fairy tale brought on by too many novels.

Believers have been tossing around charges of this or that man being the anti-Christ for several centuries now, ALL entirely wrong entirely all the time. It's not even possible that there will be 'a man,' singular, as the anti-Christ, as the anti-Christ is in fact an unseen spirit.

Eschatology is simply the theology of end times.. which tends to get spiritualized away today.. although we should be able to see that DAY approaching.. and we know it shall come as a thief in the night.. and as travail upon a woman with child.

Simplistic dissection. Posted early here from Os the various diversities on that particular matter, but some like to pick out one or two pieces and hang their whole eschatology hat on some segmented notions.

It's much more difficult to find out how they are ALL fully true and applicable, and not just one or two statements and the expense and disregard of the others.

s

 

[Eventide]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

The notion you put in play is that Jesus left us. I don't consider that to be a factual condition. It will remain quite pointless to expect to see a FLESH JESUS arrival as we know Him after the flesh no longer.

Well clearly then.. that's your problem.

If you think that the believer having the Spirit of Christ within their earthen vessel constitutes Christ not literally ascending INTO HEAVEN and not being presently HERE on EARTH..

Then you simply do not believe the truth of scripture.

 

[Eventide]

This is what happens when people actually DO IGNORE the mystery pertaining to Israel..

I can't imagine why it's so difficult for God to DELIVER JACOB in the time of the end.. especially when this is clearly revealed in scripture.

 

[smaller]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

Well clearly then.. that's your problem.

If you think that the believer having the Spirit of Christ within their earthen vessel constitutes Christ not literally ascending INTO HEAVEN and not being presently HERE on EARTH..

Then you simply do not believe the truth of scripture.

That's probably the very easiest matter to understand.

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

You are merely engaged in the 'where is Jesus' game as if it's three card monty with the ball actually not even being in the mix of choices but somewhere else.

s