At the revelation of Jesus Christ...

[Eventide]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

That's probably the very easiest matter to understand.

Hebrews 13:5
Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.

You are merely engaged in the 'where is Jesus' game as if it's three card monty with the ball actually not even being in the mix of choices but somewhere else.

s

Once again.. if you don't actually believe the simple truth of the scriptures.. that the Lord Jesus Christ literally ascended into heaven where He is now seated at the right hand of His Father.. then imo you don't actually believe the truth, but rather some distorted personal view that you've come up with..

I'll simply say believe what you want.. and obviously you don't believe anything that I'm sharing here.. and rather just seem to be posting against it in general etc.. so.. since you seem to have some vastly different ideas here.. just say what they are..

There's no literal coming of Christ in the future.. ?

No resurrection of the dead..?

No marriage of the Lamb to His wife ?

No God revealing Himself to Israel in that Day..?

No Day of the Lord.. ?

 

[smaller]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

Once again.. if you don't actually believe the simple truth of the scriptures.. that the Lord Jesus Christ literally ascended into heaven where He is now seated at the right hand of His Father.. then imo you don't actually believe the truth, but rather some distorted personal view that you've come up with..

Far be it from me to convince you that you are (supposedly) His Body Part already seated in the heavenlies.

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Nah, let's play the 'where is Jesus' game.

s

 

[Eventide]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

Far be it from me to convince you that you are (supposedly) His Body Part already seated in the heavenlies.

Ephesians 2:6
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Nah, let's play the 'where is Jesus' game.

s

Ohhh.. you got me there..

Obviously you're the only one playin..

 

[smaller]

Or even more obviously you have an entirely different picture

 

[Eventide]

knowing this FIRST..

And let's not forget what we have learned.. because the Apostle to the circumcision wants us to know this first..

That in the last days there shall be scoffers who deny the promise of HIS COMING.. and they're going to say that things continue as they were since the fathers fell asleep..

We know better.. than to listen to what these scoffers say..

 

[smaller]

Well, let's just scratch Paul's fact from your acceptance list of facts.

 

[Eventide]

Once again.. imo the root of the problem here is ignoring the mystery concerning Israel.. this leads to nowhere but becoming wise in our own conceits..

Huge problem in Christendom today to say the least..

 

[reba]

Re: No basis in scripture...

This has been a pleasant thread please keep it that way...


We can have different views of scripture

Truth does not equal you agree with me... no matter who the me isshare your thoughts

 

[jasoncran]

huge problem? really? im a partial preterist. and well outside of this forum i know of none in my church and the churches that i have visited and attended and thats is about 7. all are futurists and believe that way about isreal.

i know if i asked my gentile friends in my church what the blindness is they wouldnt really know it. i see it because i read jewish litature and talk to my family and also have a commentary next to my bed. oracles indeed.i have even posted some of that here and most of members here dont care to read it. few do.vic and stovebolts got me into jewish sites and commentaries. that and the holy spirit.

 

[Osgiliath]

Originally posted by Sinthesis,

There is of course a future fulfillment aspect to eschatology that will culminate in the end of the universe, but that is not our concern. What will not happen is the coming of a carnal Christian caliphate.

You're right, it certainly will not be a CARNAL Christian caliphate. But what do the scriptures teach us about what happens to those who do not believe while 'in the flesh' in every generation?


Romans 11:30 "For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy THROUGH THEIR UNBELIEF:
Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy."


That is the very reason for two resurrections. Your faith is GIVEN to you by God as a gift (Ephesians 2:8), at the expense of the masses, to whom it is not given to believe at this time. But you and I are not being saved just for the sake of being saved. We are being saved to become the rulers (rulers = saviors actually) of 'these also who now believe not', that 'through your mercy they also may obtain mercy'.


So that is why those to whom Christ was speaking in John 10:26 "believe not". It is for the purpose of giving His faith to you and to me, so that you and I can show mercy upon all those who do not at this time believe.


John 10:26 "But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."

Romans 11:31 "Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy."



There will not be, as you say, a carnal Christian caliphate. But those who are called and chosen; the FIRSTFRUITS; will be the instruments in which "the rest of the harvest" will be gathered. How will this be done?


Look at what God told Jeremiah about having His word in Jeremiah's mouth:

Jeremiah 5:14 "Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make my words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them."


So it is those who are being judged now (while still in the flesh) who will judge the "rest of the harvest" for the purpose of "gathering them in". Who is comfortable in these symbolic flames of God's Word? Here is what the scriptures actually teach:

Isaiah 33:14 "The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?"

Is it the wicked who shall dwell with "everlasting [Hebrew - olawm, age lasting,] burnings?" Hardly:

Isaiah 33:15 "He that walketh righteously, and speaketh uprightly; he that despiseth the gain of oppressions, that shaketh his hands from holding of bribes, that stoppeth his ears from hearing of blood, and shutteth his eyes from seeing evil."

Also,

Revelation 2:11 "He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death."

Does it say - "they will NOT GO THROUGH the second death?" No - they will NOT BE HURT by the second death.


It is in this symbolic "devouring fire" of God's Word, in these symbolic "everlasting [Hebrew - olawm, age lasting,] burnings", that those who are enduring this same fire now in this life (the firstfruits) will be granted to show mercy to the rest of the harvest.


Romans 11:30 "For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy THROUGH THEIR UNBELIEF:
Romans 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy."


The firstfruits - "the house of God" are right now being judged ('now' meaning - while still in the flesh - in every generation since Christ). In other words, there is a small group of firstfruits chosen from each and every generation since Christ, and all of these together make up "the house of God" - the "firstfruits of the harvest."

1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"


Why is the "house of God" being judged now:

1 Corinthians 6:2 "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world? And if the world will be judged by you, are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1 Corinthians 6:3 Do you not know that we shall judge angels (Greek = messengers)? How much more, things that pertain to this life?"


This is all for the purpose of:

Romans 11:31 "Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy."

 

[Stormcrow]

The resurrection is still yet future.

Then why does Christ - citing Daniel - place it immediately after the "tribulation of those days" (which are the days leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD?)

"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Matthew 24:21 (NASB)

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matthew 24:29 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NASB)

The resurrection is clearly juxtaposed with the great tribulation that befell Jerusalem and it was all prophesied to happen before that generation had passed. Not my words: Christ's.

 

[Eventide]

The resurrection is clearly juxtaposed with the great tribulation that befell Jerusalem and it was all prophesied to happen before that generation had passed. Not my words: Christ's.

So here's another one who preaches that the resurrection is past already.. and so his words eat like a cancer and he overthrows the faith of some..

What a disgrace to the gospel of God's Son..

 

[Stormcrow]

I can only lead some people to the Word. I can't make them believe it.

 

[Eventide]

I can only lead some people to the Word. I can't make them believe it.

Same here..

It's simple to show through the scriptures that those who say that the resurrection is past, that they overthrow the faith of some.. and that their words eat like a cancer..

And yet they could care less.. once again, an absolute disgrace to the gospel of God's Son.. not to mention sheer blindness to the things which are, and to the things which shall be hereafter.

 

[smaller]

Then why does Christ - citing Daniel - place it immediately after the "tribulation of those days" (which are the days leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD?)

"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Matthew 24:21 (NASB)

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matthew 24:29 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NASB)

The resurrection is clearly juxtaposed with the great tribulation that befell Jerusalem and it was all prophesied to happen before that generation had passed. Not my words: Christ's.

It has been repeatedly shown to 'full preterists' that this is a matter to come:

1 Cor. 15:
42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality,

then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

Did this happen in 70 a.d? Only if one has a vivid imagination. We who believe have a token of this promise presently, and not the fulfillment of same.

The above WILL be fulfilled, but has not yet 'fully' transpired.

s

 

[JLB]

Then why does Christ - citing Daniel - place it immediately after the "tribulation of those days" (which are the days leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD?)

"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Matthew 24:21 (NASB)

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matthew 24:29 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NASB)

The resurrection is clearly juxtaposed with the great tribulation that befell Jerusalem and it was all prophesied to happen before that generation had passed. Not my words: Christ's.

Jesus words in Matthew are clear. His discourse reveals His teaching is about His coming and the end of the age.

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: "Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, 'I am the Christ,' and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.


So far, nothing is mentioned about the destruction of the "city and sanctuary"!



15 "Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. 23 Then if anyone says to you, 'Look, here is the Christ!' or 'There!' do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand. 26 Therefore if they say to you, 'Look, He is in the desert!' do not go out; or 'Look, He is in the inner rooms!' do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.


Still no reference to the destruction of Jerusalem or the sanctuary!


29 "Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.


WOW! How could Jesus be referring to the events of 70 AD when He doesn't mention a word about it in His Discourse to His disciples!


Basically, you would have to rewrite what Jesus said hear and come up with a whole new bible translation for it to mean what you are insisting it to mean.

How can "this generation" be the generation of 70 AD, when Jesus doesn't mention the events of that time. unno


One would have to have a different bible to "explain away" the clear meaning of what Jesus is teaching us in these passages of Matthew!

Preterism is HERESY! :verysick


JLB

 

[Eventide]

The night is far spent... the DAY is at hand...

And what should be obvious to any serious student of the word is that the context of Matthew 24 is completely centered upon ISRAEL.. the church of God is not even in the picture here.. and it didn't exist when all of these things (which shall be hereafter) were explained to the twelve Apostles of the Lamb.

End times are staggering to say the least...

Remember this.. all end time theology is centered upon the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in power and great glory.. and that Jacob (Israel) shall be delivered in that Day..

So many today are bent on their destruction in 70AD.. which was certainly a significant event foretold in miraculous detail by the LORD Himself.. although the story is far from over folks..

There's infinitely more to come when HE COMES in His glory with thousands upon thousands of HIS Saints.. at the revelation of Jesus Christ...

 

[reba]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

Remember this.. all end time theology is centered upon the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ in power and great glory.. and that Jacob (Israel) shall be delivered in that Day..

So many today are bent on their destruction in 70AD.. which was certainly a significant event foretold in miraculous detail by the LORD Himself.. although the story is far from over folks..

There's infinitely more to come when HE COMES in His glory with thousands upon thousands of HIS Saints.. at the revelation of Jesus Christ...

on this we can agree

 

[Eventide]

Re: The Day of the LORD.. the Day of JESUS CHRIST...

on this we can agree

And it should not be that difficult.. for these are basic fundamental truths of the holy scriptures.. and yet at the same time we can't even begin to fathom the limitless depths of what's to come.. concerning the things which shall be hereafter..

Things like the LORD coming in power and great glory with thousands upon thousands of His Saints..

Things like the resurrection of the dead.. when our vile bodies shall be fashioned like unto His glorious body..

Things like the church of God meeting the Lord in the air..

Things like the marriage of the Lamb (of God) to His wife.. the church of God, which He shall present to Himself a glorious church without spot or wrinkle or any such thing..

We can't even begin to understand the depths of these things which shall be hereafter.. in that Day, the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.. which shall come as a thief in the night and as travail upon a woman with child..

At the revelation of Jesus Christ..

 

[Osgiliath]

Then why does Christ - citing Daniel - place it immediately after the "tribulation of those days" (which are the days leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD?)

"For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will. Matthew 24:21 (NASB)

"Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued. "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

"But immediately after the tribulation of those days THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Matthew 24:29 (NASB)

"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NASB)

The resurrection is clearly juxtaposed with the great tribulation that befell Jerusalem and it was all prophesied to happen before that generation had passed. Not my words: Christ's.

Unfortunately, Preterists, like Dispensationalists, only see external, outward, signs (the natural man - as well as the unfortunate nature of eschatology), rather than understanding that every word that proceedeth from the mouth of our Lord is, was, and always will be "Spiritual":

John 6:63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. THE WORDS that I SPEAK to you ARE SPIRIT, and they are life."

Was physical Jerusalem attacked and destroyed in 70 A.D.? Yes, of course. Was is prophesied to occur. Yes!

But Spiritual Jerusalem has been under attack ever since.


When is this "day of judgment ........ the day of the Lord which comes as a thief in the night"? Does this "Great Tribulation" and this "Day of Judgment" only concern "the outward, external" events of 70 AD?

Acts 2:14 "But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come."


Peter is relating all the events surrounding the death and resurrection of Christ, and he is claiming that all of "this is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel... it shall come to pass in the last days... the sun shall be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come."


Christ had already told the apostles the same thing. Notice what Christ's answer was to the question by His disciples, "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?":


Matthew 24:21 "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.
Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here [is] Christ, or there; believe [it] not.
Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24:25 Behold, I have told you before.
Matthew 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, [he is] in the secret chambers; believe [it] not.
Matthew 24:27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Matthew 24:28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
Matthew 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Matthew 24:32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer [is] nigh:
Matthew 24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away."


So here is Christ saying the same thing Peter says a several weeks later at the day of Pentecost. "After the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken", only Peter is telling us that when Christ says "This generation will not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."


What he meant was "It is near even at the door" meaning beginning at the day of Pentecost and "never passing away" but being fulfilled in the lives of all of God's elect from that time to this day.


The point being made by both Christ and Peter is that the day of judgment is now on the house of God, and the day of the Lord is now come to those who are being judged ("now" - meaning - 'now' to everyone who heareth the words of the Lord, in EVERY generation).


Peter says,

2 Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
2 Peter 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and THE WORKS that are therein shall be burned up."


These words about "the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men... the day of the Lord" were used by Peter on the day of Pentecost, just as he had just used them in his epistle, which, in both cases are understood as referring to events in the lives of believers of EVERY GENERATION.

When Peter said, "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." he knew that "the day of judgment was already here" and being executed upon and bringing about the perdition of such ungodly men. So he tells us all clearly that "the fiery... day of judgment at the time of the end" is right now on the house of God:

1 Peter 4:12 "Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

1 Peter 4:17 For the time IS COME that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"


The day of Pentecost was the beginning of "the end of the world," [Greek = age] for all who comprise "the house of God". All of this spoken from the mouths of Peter and Christ were not about 70 AD, they 'are' far more significant and profound. The events of 70 AD were incidental.

1 Corinthians 10:11 "Now all these things happened unto them [Israel] for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come."

"The ends of the world ARE come" upon us, and THAT HAS BEEN THE CASE SINCE THE DAY OF PENTECOST!


The time 'IS'' [ALWAYS] at hand. To the preterist or dispensationalist, the time 'IS' never "at hand." To a preterist; the time 'WAS' at hand. To a futurist; the time 'WILL BE' at hand. Both do not see that the time 'IS' always at hand.

To a preterist, 'physical' Jerusalem was surrounded in 70 AD, but they fail to see SPIRITUAL JERUSALEM surrounded by the armies of the 'man of sin' within the temple (which YOU ARE) right now at this time. In fact, Spiritual Jerusalem has been surrounded by the armies of the 'man of sin' within the temple (which YOU ARE) ever since Pentecost.






As far as the resurrection, it is both present in "the earnest of the spirit" and it is future in "the redemption of the purchased possession."


Ephesians 1:13 "In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, [of resurrection]
Ephesians 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession [the actual resurrection], unto the praise of his glory."


Paul tells us we are already dead and raised up with Christ in "the earnest of our inheritance":


Romans 6:4 "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection."



When are we to be "in the likeness of His resurrection"?

Ephesians 2:6 "And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus."


It is spoken of in spirit, as an accomplished fact. But this is only in the "sealed with the holy spirit of promise" form at this time, "until the redemption of the purchased possession."

Ephesians 1:14 "Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession [the actual resurrection], unto the praise of his glory."

"The earnest" is the "down payment", and the "redemption of the purchased possession" is the resurrection from the dead.


We should be careful never to claim that "the resurrection is past", even though "we are resurrected with Him in newness of life".


2 Timothy 2:18 "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some."






PS - Forgive me for the long post, but to explain this AND provide Scriptural documentation in only a few words is difficult :type


Now I have to give a guitar lesson :guitar


Peace, and God bless.