Atheist in a Christian Den.

[Mike]

Just to be clear, this being a privately owned Christian site, believers in the one True faith are afforded certain rights that non-believers are not. CFnet has a Statement of Faith which is guided by scripture here: http://www.christianforums.net/announcement.php?f=64&a=7 . The ToS is guided by the SoF, and that is here: http://www.christianforums.net/announcement.php?f=64&a=6 .

In the ToS, it clearly says that:

1. Any attempts to put Christianity down (2.1)
2. Any promotion of other faiths including atheism (2.2)

are considered to be hostile acts and will be treated as such. It is NOT against the ToS for believers to attempt to persuade non-believers. It IS against the ToS for non-believers to do the same. It may seem pointless to debate, given these rules, with an atheist who is not seeking the Truth when the Truth is not consistent with his belief system, but they are the rules we've had in place for a long time. And they are the rules that every member has agreed to when joining CFnet.

There is a wide range of beliefs between true atheists and agnostics and then an abrupt line that separates believers, because everything changes when someone is Brought to faith. I picture it like this:

atheists <--------------------------------------> agnostics l believers

Along the continuum, you have agnostic atheists and atheistic agnostics with varying degrees of assurance in their stance. I believe there are very few true atheists. Some like to tag themselves as "atheists" when in fact they are somewhere along the line, simply because there does exist that seed of doubt in pure atheism.

But nevertheless, when someone comes in with that attitude that s/he is an atheist and will not be open to listening to a believer's perspective, it is unproductive and unfruitful to "throw pearls to the swine". Matthew 7:6

I just want to clear up who can "attempt to persuade" and who cannot.

 

[ColdBlooded]

I'm glad I and others like me are welcome here. I have come mostly seeking knowledge about your mythology and rituals among other practices.
It's interesting to how so many of you are diverse, even on the same subjects.
I've been here for twenty minutes and have already learned things about the Bible and scriptures as well as interpretations and even your own views on people like me. I appreciate this opportunity to learn.

 

[Mike]

I'm glad I and others like me are welcome here. I have come mostly seeking knowledge about your mythology and rituals among other practices.
It's interesting to how so many of you are diverse, even on the same subjects.
I've been here for twenty minutes and have already learned things about the Bible and scriptures as well as interpretations and even your own views on people like me. I appreciate this opportunity to learn.

I want to address this statement: " I have come mostly seeking knowledge about your mythology and rituals among other practices."

Do not join our Christian community and refer to our beliefs as myths rituals. This is right at the line of violating the ToS that you agreed to when registering. When non-believers come with such comments, I find it a little telling. The OP in this thread eventually came clean and admitted this was just a joke he put on with a few other atheists, and they had some sort of bet as to how long it would take himself to get banned. So, maybe you can see why our radar goes up when we see this. Tread lightly if your motives are sincere.

 

[Atothetheist]

I want to address this statement: " I have come mostly seeking knowledge about your mythology and rituals among other practices."

Do not join our Christian community and refer to our beliefs as myths rituals. This is right at the line of violating the ToS that you agreed to when registering. When non-believers come with such comments, I find it a little telling. The OP in this thread eventually came clean and admitted this was just a joke he put on with a few other atheists, and they had some sort of bet as to how long it would take himself to get banned. So, maybe you can see why our radar goes up when we see this. Tread lightly if your motives are sincere.

I did no such thing. I never once said that I came here just to see how long I could stay on.

What are you saying?

 

[Free]

On another note regarding this discussion, christianity is about faith not logic. Faith is believing in something you cannot prove. Sooo...debate about christianity is a waste of time.

First, welcome. Second, you're wrong here. Faith, as far as Christianity is concerned, is based on reason and is not the absence of it. It is a common belief among atheists that faith and reason are mutually exclusive but that is not at all the case.


And welcome to you as well, SnakeInTheGrass.

 

[Free]

I did no such thing. I never once said that I came here just to see how long I could stay on.

What are you saying?

He's not saying anything. I think he has you mixed up with another atheist who did say just such a thing and was banned.

 

[ColdBlooded]

I was unaware of such drama that appears to persist on this sight.

But I can understand the suspicion that is thrust upon me.
If what is apparent is true than people like me have come to antagonise and berate your religion and have before.

I'll say again. I mean no harm, nor am I hear to debate or challenge.
I am here to learn and provide insight and even answers.

Many will say "Well how can those gosh darn atheists do this?", and I answer with as much truth as I can.

To be perfectly honest, I just want to dissolve a few straw men that exist between us. Not all atheists are antagonistic and malicious. I hope I can learn and teach and resolve conflict, not start it.

 

[Atothetheist]

I was unaware of such drama that appears to persist on this sight.

But I can understand the suspicion that is thrust upon me.
If what is apparent is true than people like me have come to antagonise and berate your religion and have before.

I'll say again. I mean no harm, nor am I hear to debate or challenge.
I am here to learn and provide insight and even answers.

Many will say "Well how can those gosh darn atheists do this?", and I answer with as much truth as I can.

To be perfectly honest, I just want to dissolve a few straw men that exist between us. Not all atheists are antagonistic and malicious. I hope I can learn and teach and resolve conflict, not start it.

I tried an ask an atheist thread, even tried to be respectful.. But teaching them about your position was hard while trying to steer away from oposition. The thread got banned.... I honestly thought it was going ot be allowed... Ahh well.

Welcome fellow atheist, I also want to learn and defuse common misconceptions of atheism.

 

[ColdBlooded]

It's so hard to hold my tongue here.
Opinions and faith are one thing but the sheer ignorance is what eats at my patience.

I am a guest here, so I understand it's my position the concede and allow the theists to be correct.

It's so hard.
I get by though, but I can't help but wonder why they believe what they believe.
I suppose they think likewise though.

 

[Atothetheist]

It's so hard to hold my tongue here.
Opinions and faith are one thing but the sheer ignorance is what eats at my patience.

I am a guest here, so I understand it's my position the concede and allow the theists to be correct.

It's so hard.
I get by though, but I can't help but wonder why they believe what they believe.
I suppose they think likewise though.

Are on the thinking atheist forums, it might relieve some of the stress by joining them as well. They allow theists and are quite fun and hilerious.

 

[Mike]

I did no such thing. I never once said that I came here just to see how long I could stay on.

What are you saying?

I had another member in mind when I wrote that, and mistakenly put you on his demise. I won't edit out that part of my thread, because it helps to show that atheists can be an asset to our board when they remember where they are at and abide by the ToS. It also shows what happens when they come here with an agenda to argue down our faith.

We used to have a few honorable atheists who would kick some back-sides when they saw some arrogant atheist come busting in with guns blazing. They had a remarkable way of showing them the disservice they do to the image of non-believers. I'm sorry for the mistake, but I'm not sorry it's given me the opportunity to make this statement.

 

[Mike]

Are on the thinking atheist forums, it might relieve some of the stress by joining them as well. They allow theists and are quite fun and hilerious.

I and others have been to those sites. You might be blind to what really goes down there, or maybe I've just been to the wrong ones. I was only able to post my intro, when I was attacked from all sides. There were a few who urged them to back off, but no one did anything about it.

 

[Atothetheist]

I and others have been to those sites. You might be blind to what really goes down there, or maybe I've just been to the wrong ones. I was only able to post my intro, when I was attacked from all sides. There were a few who urged them to back off, but no one did anything about it.

Well, the thinking atheist forum site is quite tolerant, except for the few " intolerants" but there are the minority.

We welcome anybody, and being dissenting is not constituted as a ban. As long as you state your intentions and try to be civil, I and most of the others will recipricate that feeling.

You can even attack us for our beliefs, no banhammer.

I reccommend, if you do want to debate, you visit us sometime.

 

[stovebolts]

Well, the thinking atheist forum site is quite tolerant, except for the few " intolerants" but there are the minority.

We welcome anybody, and being dissenting is not constituted as a ban. As long as you state your intentions and try to be civil, I and most of the others will recipricate that feeling.

You can even attack us for our beliefs, no banhammer.

I reccommend, if you do want to debate, you visit us sometime.

That certainly was not my experience. A former atheist who used to frequent this site invited me to a "thinking" atheist forum and I was doing very well. Many people gave me a great ranking and my "reputation" shot up rather quickly.

Before I continue, I'd like to say that this particular atheist, in my opinion was attacked unfairly on this forum because she was an atheist, and not because of the content of her posts and after speaking with her about it she invited me to her "home" forum.

Like I said, everything was going well and she assured me that I would be welcome by her comrades, and that I was until I stated I was a Christian, and then everything changed rather quickly.

I myself started a thread, "Ask a theist" and my intent was pure. I was not there to argue, I was there to create a bridge, extend the proverbial olive branch per se. Honestly, the accusations etc piled up so quickly it was overwhelming. Suddenly, I had become their enemy.

They also had a forum that dealt with the OT and Christianity and I engaged in a thread that from the outside just looked silly. It turned sour very fast because they didn't want to actually address the scriptures, they simply wanted to berate it without merit and the creator of the OP even lied on several accounts, yet that was overlooked.

I understand what it feels like to come into anothers camp with good intentions, but it's foolish to pretend that your going to help us, or set us straight. Chances are, it will just affirm our division and you'll walk away hating us even more.

 

[Atothetheist]

That certainly was not my experience. A former atheist who used to frequent this site invited me to a "thinking" atheist forum and I was doing very well. Many people gave me a great ranking and my "reputation" shot up rather quickly.

Before I continue, I'd like to say that this particular atheist, in my opinion was attacked unfairly on this forum because she was an atheist, and not because of the content of her posts and after speaking with her about it she invited me to her "home" forum.

Like I said, everything was going well and she assured me that I would be welcome by her comrades, and that I was until I stated I was a Christian, and then everything changed rather quickly.

I myself started a thread, "Ask a theist" and my intent was pure. I was not there to argue, I was there to create a bridge, extend the proverbial olive branch per se. Honestly, the accusations etc piled up so quickly it was overwhelming. Suddenly, I had become their enemy.

They also had a forum that dealt with the OT and Christianity and I engaged in a thread that from the outside just looked silly. It turned sour very fast because they didn't want to actually address the scriptures, they simply wanted to berate it without merit and the creator of the OP even lied on several accounts, yet that was overlooked.

I understand what it feels like to come into anothers camp with good intentions, but it's foolish to pretend that your going to help us, or set us straight. Chances are, it will just affirm our division and you'll walk away hating us even more.

The forum I am talking about is actually called the thinking atheist forum. We have an "Ask a theist" thread. We have theists on the boards. The most positive rated member on our board is a christian.

You are making a generalization.

 

[stovebolts]

The forum I am talking about is actually called the thinking atheist forum. We have an "Ask a theist" thread. We have theists on the boards. The most rated member on our board is a christian.

You are making a generalization.

While it may be a different forum, I am only sharing my experience. That is not a generalization.

I've been on this forum since 2004. That's a long, long time and although my post count is low, I read a lot and reply where applicable. What I'm saying is that I've been around the block a few times, so what makes you the exception and not the rule?

Let me ask you this. What do you hope to gain by coming to this forum? Are you looking for acceptance? Are you looking for friendship? Are you looking for debate? What is the driving force that brought you to our home?

 

[Atothetheist]

While it may be a different forum, I am only sharing my experience. That is not a generalization.

I've been on this forum since 2004. That's a long, long time and although my post count is low, I read a lot and reply where applicable. What I'm saying is that I've been around the block a few times, so what makes you the exception and not the rule?

Let me ask you this. What do you hope to gain by coming to this forum? Are you looking for acceptance? Are you looking for friendship? Are you looking for debate? What is the driving force that brought you to our home?

What I am looking for, as if I hadn't stated enough, is objectivity. I don't just want to be on atheistic forums, I want to hear both sides. I want to see what you have in response to my lack of faith, and arguments FOR christianity without trying to base it off of logical fallacies.

I want to learn about faith, religion. This is why I am on muslim, Jew, Hindu and other religion boards as well. I want to know both sides.

Good enough answer for you?

 

[stovebolts]

What I am looking for, as if I hadn't stated enough, is objectivity. I don't just want to be on atheistic forums, I want to hear both sides. I want to see what you have in response to my lack of faith, and arguments FOR christianity without trying to base it off of logical fallacies.

I want to learn about faith, religion. This is why I am on muslim, Jew, Hindu and other religion boards as well. I want to know both sides.

Good enough answer for you?

If it's an honest answer, which I believe it is then yes.

At the core of Christianity is relationships. It's how we treat each other and how we act. We acknowledge that there is a higher being... a creator who made all things. A creator who is longsuffering and slow to anger. A creator who desires a relationship with us, and cares for us. He shows us this great love by instructing us how to live, how to act and comforts us through trials. Most importantly he shows us his great love by sending us his son Jesus who shows us the way to reconciliation with both God and man and gives us great hope that when we die, it's not the end, but only the beginning.

If there is one thing science shows us, is that we humans are predictably unpredictable. We defy logic through our thoughts and actions. In other words, we don't always make the right choices and we don't always have the best thoughts in mind. You see, love isn't logical, its deeper than that and so are relationships. Sometimes we do things that make no logical sense at all, but that no less makes it the best thing to do within the given circumstance. Real life is full of variables and unknowns, and for some of us, relationships based on compassion, understanding, patience and a few other emotional traits trump the dry, cold calculating inferences that pure logic has to offer.

We all have faith and we are all following somebody. Question is, who are you following and what results are you gaining? More importantly, what is really important in your life? Is it filled with self gratification, or is it reaching for others, putting their needs above your own. Christianity as a whole is about being a servant and putting others first more often than not. It's about denying particular emotional attributes such as pride and arrogance and putting on patience and kindness. Often we fail, but we know we are forgiven and we continue on our quest.

So there you have it in a nutshell, and it is a very small nutshell... perhaps only a faucet of the nutshell at that.

 

[abigail]

lol.. you now owe classik and me a football.. those are american soccerballs.. or in other countries the football.. besides that why on earth would you want to come to a strictly Christain discussion forum? unless maybe you want to convert but are not ready to admit it openly.. are you coming out of the atheist closet?:yes God Bless you...

 

[Atothetheist]

lol.. you now owe classik and me a football.. those are american soccerballs.. or in other countries the football.. besides that why on earth would you want to come to a strictly Christain discussion forum? unless maybe you want to convert but are not ready to admit it openly.. are you coming out of the atheist closet?:yes God Bless you...

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

This is hilerious, but nope. Not becoming a Christian until I am convinced of the truth in its doctrines.