Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation

[atpollard]

God does not change...ever!

The New Testament reveals the Old Testament
But
The Old Testament explains the New Testament.
And if following God's desires was so easy (because of the Holy Spirit) why did Paul feel the need to write so much?
(Nevermind the rest of the letters)

Umm, color me confused.
1. I don't think I said that God does change. God changes us.

2. The Bible is the story of God progressively revealing more about himself with each new addition to the body of Scripture. Genesis reveals less about God than the full five Books of Moses. The Wisdom, History and Prophets of the OT add still more revelation about the unchanging God. The Gospels add yet more insight into the unchanging triune Godhead. The NT Letters add more insight.

3. Who said anything was "easy"? In my experience the Holy Spirit makes the impossible, suddenly possible ... not easy.

[Frankly, I don't even know what to do with the rest of your comments. So, God Bless. I need to check my daughter's math homework.]

 

[JohnDB]

. So, God Bless. I need to check my daughter's math homework.]

Daddy Daughter time ROCKS

 

[eddif]

I always thought it was the other way around ... The OT can only fully be understood when viewed through the lens of the New Testement. In any event, my best shot at answering this question comes from Ezekiel 36:22-32 NASB

22 “Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘Thus says the Lord GOD, “It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. 23 I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD,” declares the Lord GOD, “when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. 24 For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. 25 Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. 26 Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances. 28 You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. 29 Moreover, I will save you from all your uncleanness; and I will call for the grain and multiply it, and I will not [fn]bring a famine on you. 30 I will multiply the fruit of the tree and the produce of the field, so that you will not receive again the disgrace of famine among the nations. 31 Then you will remember your evil ways and your deeds that were not good, and you will loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and your abominations. 32 I am not doing this for your sake,” declares the Lord GOD, “let it be known to you. Be ashamed and confounded for your ways, O house of Israel!”​

While this is admittedly a scripture directed towards Israel, it offers an OT typology of what God is doing in the NT through the "born from above".

(v.22-24) It is not done for our sake (although we benefit), but rather for the glory of God's holy name.
(v.25) God does the cleansing, we are the objects covered in filth.
(v.26) God removes a dead heart ... incapable of life and of no value to God or us. God gifts (unmerited) a heart that is alive ... better for us and of value to God (as something other than firewood).
(v.27) God's Spirit (the seal which guarantees our inheritance) dwells in us and empowers us to walk in God's statutes. The dead heart can not and has no desire to walk in the statutes. The living heart desires to walk in God's statutes, but cannot. God's Spirit empowers the new heart to do what it now desires ... to please God!
(v.28) How much more intimate is our NT relationship. We are not merely God's "people", we are God's sons and daughters, the Bride of Jesus Christ.


I could go on, but the point has been made.
Anyway, that's my best guess in answer to your question.

Colossians 2:16 KJV
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 1:20 KJV
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

I thoroughly enjoyed your post.

A hydraulic engineer and an electronics engineer both talk about resistance and flow. Sometimes they just have language and communication problems. The Old Covenant has Christ hidden in it. It seems difficult for some to see this parallel. When I try and use the ox to explain preachers it just seems to most I am off. This whole thread is about the entrance of the Holy Spirit to help work on our understanding and actions.

Redneck
eddif

 

[Corn Pop]

Baptism has many doctrines. Everyone is all over the place. I have never been a fan of the letter as it causes too much division, like Paul said.

 

[eddif]

Baptism has many doctrines. Everyone is all over the place. I have never been a fan of the letter as it causes too much division, like Paul said.

II Corinthians 3:6 KJV
Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

The instructions for the new covenant
Matthew 28:18 KJV
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Fathers baptism
Sons baptism
Holy Spirit baptism

eddif

 

[FreeGrace]

During my morning devotions today, I found a text that refutes the title of this thread, that baptism of the Holy Spirit doesn't occur at salvation. In fact, the text will show that baptism of the Holy Spirit absolutely does occur at salvation.

Acts 10 is the chapter.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then we move to chaper 11, for further clarification and explanation.

15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

v.15 repeats what we read in chapter 10, that the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius's household.

But then, Peter remembered what Jesus had taught about John the baptizer, who said he baptized with water, but Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit. Then in v.17 Peter concludes that this "same gift", which is the indwelling Holy Spirit, is given to "who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ".

So, there it is. We know that salvation occurs the moment one believes in the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 11 teaches that the indwelling Holy Spirit is also given at salvation. And Acts 11:16 directly links baptism of the Holy Spirit to salvation.

 

[eddif]

During my morning devotions today, I found a text that refutes the title of this thread, that baptism of the Holy Spirit doesn't occur at salvation. In fact, the text will show that baptism of the Holy Spirit absolutely does occur at salvation.

Acts 10 is the chapter.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then we move to chaper 11, for further clarification and explanation.

15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

v.15 repeats what we read in chapter 10, that the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius's household.

But then, Peter remembered what Jesus had taught about John the baptizer, who said he baptized with water, but Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit. Then in v.17 Peter concludes that this "same gift", which is the indwelling Holy Spirit, is given to "who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ".

So, there it is. We know that salvation occurs the moment one believes in the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 11 teaches that the indwelling Holy Spirit is also given at salvation. And Acts 11:16 directly links baptism of the Holy Spirit to salvation.

Sounds good on the surface, but all aspects of of salvation can happen in a minute.
Acts 16:29 kjv
Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,
30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Repent
Believe in Christ Jesus
Receive in the Holy Spirit.

The time frame can be years or seconds.

eddif

 

[ezra]

In fact, the text will show that baptism of the Holy Spirit absolutely does occur at salvation.

exactly :amen

 

[Jim Parker]

Baptism has many doctrines. Everyone is all over the place. I have never been a fan of the letter as it causes too much division, like Paul said.

I'm a "fan" of what Jesus and Paul and Peter say about baptism.
Mar 16:16a He who believes and is baptized will be saved
Rom 6:3-4 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
1Pe 3:20-21... in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

The ability to present the Gospel is through the Holy Spirit.

 

[Jim Parker]

"Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation"
Salvation will not be an accomplished fact until we hear Jesus say to us, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mat 25:34)

The baptism in the Holy Spirit happens when God wants it to happen but it always happens AFTER belief.

Before baptism in water:
Act 10:44-48
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

After baptism in water:
Act 8:14-17
Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.



iakov the fool

 

[ezra]

"Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation"
Salvation will not be an accomplished fact until we hear Jesus say to us, "Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world" (Mat 25:34)

The baptism in the Holy Spirit happens when God wants it to happen but it always happens AFTER belief.

Before baptism in water:
Act 10:44-48
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.

After baptism in water:
Act 8:14-17
Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.



iakov the fool

For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. baptized the moment saved

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. the spirit indwells us when we get saved

 

[ezra]

another one bites the dust

 

[gr8grace3]

During my morning devotions today, I found a text that refutes the title of this thread, that baptism of the Holy Spirit doesn't occur at salvation. In fact, the text will show that baptism of the Holy Spirit absolutely does occur at salvation.

Acts 10 is the chapter.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.
45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on Gentiles.
46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then we move to chaper 11, for further clarification and explanation.

15 “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit came on them as he had come on us at the beginning.
16 Then I remembered what the Lord had said: ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’
17So if God gave them the same gift he gave us who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to think that I could stand in God’s way?”

v.15 repeats what we read in chapter 10, that the Holy Spirit came upon Cornelius's household.

But then, Peter remembered what Jesus had taught about John the baptizer, who said he baptized with water, but Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit. Then in v.17 Peter concludes that this "same gift", which is the indwelling Holy Spirit, is given to "who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ".

So, there it is. We know that salvation occurs the moment one believes in the Lord Jesus Christ. Acts 11 teaches that the indwelling Holy Spirit is also given at salvation. And Acts 11:16 directly links baptism of the Holy Spirit to salvation.

 

[gr8grace3]

For we were all baptized by one Spirit so as to form one body--whether Jews or Gentiles, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. baptized the moment saved

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. the spirit indwells us when we get saved

 

[gr8grace3]

Col 2~~ 8See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority; 11and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ; 12having been buried with Him in baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead. 13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, 14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

 

[ezra]

to say we get the Holy spirit after salvation goes completely against john 3 5 Jesus answered, I assure you: Unless someone is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 Whatever is born of the flesh is flesh, and whatever is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Do not be amazed that I told you that you[c] must be born again. 8 The wind[d] blows where it pleases, and you hear its sound, but you don't know where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit. its a spiritual birth . the spirit quickens brings life.. how can we have new life and not have the spirit. the infilling of the spirit is W I P . when filled we have no Room for anything else .... so just how filled are we. to say the baptism of the spirit is separate i will not agree with ..

 

[reba]

edited no scripture

 

[Paoli S.]

Well, I guess here's my take on this issue. When a person becomes a Christian/Born Again he/she is born of the Spirit. This is n o t the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told his followers, who were already Christians, to wait upon the power from upon high. This happened and they were baptized with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. The Bible is very clear about this issue and it really surprises me that people are confused about it. It's still for today because Jesus said He's the same yesterday, today and forever. I was baptized with the Holy Spirit before I was baptized in water.

 

[Eugene]

I was baptized with the Holy Spirit before I was baptized in water.

Hi and welcome Brother Paoli S. in Jesus' name. Your testimony follows the very pattern of:
Act 10:47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
Act 10:48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.
Blessings in Christ Jesus.