What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation

Reopened,
Lables and inaccurate rendering of others postings and going off topic have caused a major cleaning of this thread with edits and deletions.
Please stay on topic and do not label each other. (Even if you mean no harm)
Also please read carefully and write clearly so that others can understand the point you wish to make reasoned from scriptures.
 
godsquadgeek said:
Acts 1:8 shows the power of the Holy Spirit not just within, but upon someone. A baptism of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Please differentiate between "within" and upon someone".

Since the core meaning of "baptizo" means "identification", why wouldn't the experience of being born again and being indwelt and sealed with the Holy Spirit at that point not be considered the baptism, or identification, of the Holy Spirit?

Esp considering Eph 1:13,14.
 
gr8grace3 said:
Back when Paul was penning these Scriptures, the scriptures were not complete. So the evangelist and the teachers had to have the gift of prophecy and knowledge to teach His complete word ........The missing parts had to be taught, so God gave some the gift of prophecy and knowledge.

God imparted the gift of knowledge and prophecy to some......so they could teach and evangelize the WHOLE of Gods word because it was not all down in written form yet. When the Scriptures were complete(96AD)........The gifts of prophecy and knowledge ceased.

And when Israel fell(70AD) and God turned to the church.....tongues were stilled.
Click to expand...


gr8grace3 said:
FreeGrace and I have said this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over........We had better confess our sin 1 John 1:9, walk in the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit and live in His plan for our lives. If we don't, the consequences are eternal and miserable.............it just isn't loss of salvation.

This is why NO ONE can prove loss of salvation from scripture.

And it is SIMPLE to prove eternal security............" They will NEVER perish." John 10:28.

If believers continually live in the flesh............you bet they can die physically before their time, lose eternal rewards,lose out on glorifying Christ, shrink away in shame at His coming, suffer divine discipline, have a pile of ashes at His evaluation of them, and enter the kingdom as if through fire........But many/most believers are working hard and believe brothers and sisters should FRY if they don't "measure up."
Click to expand...


"And when Israel fell(70AD) and God turned to the church.....tongues were stilled. "

Can this be proven from Scripture
 
Back to the interpretation of the verse
1 Corinthians 13:8-10
When the perfect has come these gifts will vanish as listed
1. Prophecies
2. Tongues
3. Knowledge
The perfect is Jesus return because paul says it is in vs.12
1 corinthians 13:12

When we see him face to face we wont need prophecies
Because the spirit of prophesy is the testimony of Jesus
Revelation 19:10
 
It struck me just now. It seems that we create discussions here in order to find reason to judge one another.

Maybe this will help. Romans 14.
4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
 
1Genesis said:
It struck me just now. It seems that we create discussions here in order to find reason to judge one another.

Maybe this will help. Romans 14.
4 Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall. And they will stand, for the Lord is able to make them stand.

5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. 7 For none of us lives for ourselves alone, and none of us dies for ourselves alone. 8 If we live, we live for the Lord; and if we die, we die for the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

10 You, then, why do you judge your brother or sister? Or why do you treat them with contempt? For we will all stand before God’s judgment seat. 11 It is written:

“‘As surely as I live,’ says the Lord,
‘every knee will bow before me;
every tongue will acknowledge God.’”
12 So then, each of us will give an account of ourselves to God.

13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister. 14 I am convinced, being fully persuaded in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for that person it is unclean. 15 If your brother or sister is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy someone for whom Christ died. 16 Therefore do not let what you know is good be spoken of as evil. 17 For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, 18 because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and receives human approval.

19 Let us therefore make every effort to do what leads to peace and to mutual edification. 20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All food is clean, but it is wrong for a person to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble. 21 It is better not to eat meat or drink wine or to do anything else that will cause your brother or sister to fall.

22 So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who does not condemn himself by what he approves. 23 But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin.
Click to expand...
actually my desire for this thread was to get some questions answered, not to judge one another, that may be your motive, not mine.
 
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line,
And righteousness to the plummet:
And the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
your covenant with death shall be disannulled,
And your agreement with hell shall not stand;
When the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
Then ye shall be trodden down by it.
morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night:
And it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
as in mount Perazim,
He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon,
That he may do his work, his strange work;
And bring to pass his act, his strange act.
be ye not mockers,
Lest your bands be made strong:
For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts
A consumption, even determined
Upon the whole earth.

"And when Israel fell(70AD) and God turned to the church.....tongues were stilled. "
Click to expand...
i dont see what you see
 
gr8grace3 said:
I know that.
Click to expand...
Perfect reply :) love it...
I dont understand the how we can ask or expect a clear verse one time and then accept vagueness another.. Seems all sides of an issue do this.. ...
Point has been made ... Your comeback is great.. :)
 
reba said:
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line,
And righteousness to the plummet:
And the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters shall overflow the hiding place.
your covenant with death shall be disannulled,
And your agreement with hell shall not stand;
When the overflowing scourge shall pass through,
Then ye shall be trodden down by it.
morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night:
And it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
as in mount Perazim,
He shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon,
That he may do his work, his strange work;
And bring to pass his act, his strange act.
be ye not mockers,
Lest your bands be made strong:
For I have heard from the Lord God of hosts
A consumption, even determined
Upon the whole earth.


i dont see what you see
Click to expand...
eisagesis is reading into the text, an external application or interpretation, exegesis is taking the text for what is there and for what it actually literally says, not for what we "think" it says, or interpret what is said into some other meaning. You are correct, his interpretation is not within that text.
 
godsquadgeek said:
many are confusing the initial filling of the holy spirit with the baptism of the holy spirit.
Acts 19 asks a question, "have you received the holy spirit since you believed" meaning that you can recieve power after salvation, a particular filling of the holy spirit.
Click to expand...
Stuff and nonsense.

Acts 19:1-7 NASB
1 It happened that while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul passed through the upper country and came to Ephesus, and found some disciples. 2 He said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “No, we have not even heard whether [fn]there is a Holy Spirit.” 3 And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5 When they heard this, they were baptized [fn]in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying. 7 There were in all about twelve men.

Verse 1: Paul arrives at Ephesus and finds 'disciples'.
Verse 2: These 'disciples' had NOT EVEN HEARD there is a Holy Spirit. (That hardly sounds like they were already saved once and baptized with the Holy Spirit at salvation like Peter promises in Acts 2.)
Verse 3: These 'disciples' received John's baptism of repentence. They were still waiting for a Messiah to come. That again hardly sounds like someone who "believes in Jesus and is saved". It sounds like VERY fertile soil for planting the seed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Verse 4: Paul tells them about Jesus. Surely you do not argue for salvation apart from Jesus, so they cannot have been "born from above" already.
Verse 5: Upon hearing the Gospel of Jesus, they chose to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ (for the FIRST time, not a second or later refilling).
Verse 6: When Paul blessed them (with the laying on of hands), they received the same gift of the Holy Spirit and the same manifestations that those Jews in Acts 2 received when they responded to Peter and the Gentiles received when they responded to Peter. This is about establishing 1) the certainty of their salvation during the Apostolic Age, and 2) the authority of Paul as a real apostle, just like Peter.

There is nothing here about a refilling or a second baptism or a continual anointing of the Holy Spirit.
You will simply have to look elsewhere to support your pet theory. These scriptures do not.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top