godsquadgeek
Member
Again acts 19 mentions partaking of the Holy spirit after the fact of.believing. as one preacher aaid... we leak. We need to be filled regularly. Communion is a good point to again ask for.a continued filling of His spirit.
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Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation
- Thread starter godsquadgeek
- Start date
I see no difference in the filling of the Holy Spirit, where at initial salvation, or now, when one is in fellowship via confession of sin, and actively seeking the Spirit's power and direction.
How do you explain the difference that you've noted between the filling at initial salvation or filling after salvation?
I see no reason to assume "partaking" equals "filling". Why not indwelling?
He is wrong. We sin. Which grieves/quenches the Spirit. What we never do is leak the Spirit out of us, and need to be filled up again.
Yes, we do. But not because we "leak". Because we sin.
Our church does that once a month. That's not nearly frequent enough if that's how we are filled. We need to be filled EVERY TIME we have sinned, which is the barometer of the fact that we've gone off track and are functioning from our sin nature, rather than from the Holy Spirit who indwells our new nature.
Only when we are functioning from our new nature will we not sin. But the moment we switch from the new to the sin nature, we have lost the filling of the Holy Spirit.
godsquadgeek
Member
again it's all in acts 19, one is a powerless life, albeit saved, the other is filled with dunamus power for ministry.
dirtfarmer
Member
dirtfarmer here
How is it possible to get church doctrine out of a book that is transitional, such as Acts?
Paul is the apostle to the "heathen" and it is from his writings that we obtain doctrine for the church.
Peter states in the book of Acts, "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins": Acts 2:38. Now I ask; Is our sin forgiven because we repent or has the penalty been paid for by Jesus Christ on the cross and belief in the death of Jesus Christ is where the payment is imputed to our account..
It is my belief that an unsaved person has no affects from sins. It is only after physical death that unbelief brings condemnation to the lake of fire. While a person is still alive there is hope that they will be saved, but after death there is no hope and no salvation.
How is it possible to get church doctrine out of a book that is transitional, such as Acts?
Paul is the apostle to the "heathen" and it is from his writings that we obtain doctrine for the church.
Peter states in the book of Acts, "repent and be baptized for the remission of sins": Acts 2:38. Now I ask; Is our sin forgiven because we repent or has the penalty been paid for by Jesus Christ on the cross and belief in the death of Jesus Christ is where the payment is imputed to our account..
It is my belief that an unsaved person has no affects from sins. It is only after physical death that unbelief brings condemnation to the lake of fire. While a person is still alive there is hope that they will be saved, but after death there is no hope and no salvation.
Sure. Either filled with the Holy Spirit, or not.
My question from post #22 was not answered:
"How do you explain the difference that you've noted between the filling at initial salvation or filling after salvation?"
Thanks.
chessman
Member
Umm, clearly not A.
They themselves stated they'd not even heard there was a Holy Spirit (Who Paul says must live in everyone who belongs to Jesus) nor had they even heard they were supposed to believe in Jesus.
And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “But we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit!” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into the baptism of John.” And Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people that they should believe in the one who was to come after him—that is, in Jesus.” And when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 19:2-5&version=LEB
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 19:2-5&version=LEB
Only after they heard that they should believe in Jesus, were they baptized in the Lord. You should base your beliefs off what the Texts actually say, not what you think typified their beliefs.
BTW, you didn't answer my other question
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Douglas Summers
Member
There is no such thing as a "general" Power, Nothing is general about the Spirit. The Spirit is a person. (Father, Son, Holy Ghost). And there is no such thing as a believer who does not have the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit that regenerates the believer when he first believes and makes him a literal part of Christ (a real living body in Spirit) bound to Christ, Except those who claim to be Christians and do not believe the Spirit, they are lairs! It is an instant gift to one who believes (as it was with me) (Eph. 1:13-14) And is sealed us until the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30).
It is that same Spirit that has free sovereign will to give gifts to whom He will. (1 Cor. 12:11), (1 Cor. 12:1-11). Because the Believer is Baptized with the Spirit at rebirth, the Epistles never ask the believer to seek the baptism of the Spirit again.
There is a distinction between the indwelling Spirit and the filling of the Spirit . Every believer has the indwelling Holy Spirit...not everyone is filled with the Spirit. The filling of The Holy Spirit has to do with the service of the believer. The full power and blessings depend on being filled with the Spirit. Any work that the Spirit draws you to should be accomplished by asking the Lord to fill you with the Spirit so as to walk in it's power. Compare these Scriptures (Eph. 1:13; 2:18; 5:18-21).
The importance of the filling of the Spirit may be seen in such Scriptures as (Acts 2:4; 4:8: 6:3; 7:55: 11:24).
For power and service in the Spirit the believer must consent and obey. And must consent to the putting away of all things in his life that grieve the Spirit as in (Eph. 4:31). The baptism of the Spirit is a once for all experience. The filling must be constantly renewed. (Eph. 5:18)
The very disciples who were "filled with the Holy Spirit" on the Day of Pentecost (Acts 2:4), were again "filled" in (Acts 4:31) But the baptism of the Holy Spirit is upon Salvation
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godsquadgeek
Member
How is it not possible to use acts as a theology textbook. True doctrine should be in gospels, acts and epistkes, so acts is a pivotal theology book seeing many churches were started here
godsquadgeek
Member
How to you explain the verse in acts 19, receiving the Holy spirit since they believed, what does that verse mean to you?
godsquadgeek
Member
You can be saved and partake of the Holy spirit prior to learning deep theology of triunity. Yes?Umm, clearly not A.
They themselves stated they'd not even heard there was a Holy Spirit (Who Paul says must live in everyone who belongs to Jesus) nor had they even heard they were supposed to believe in Jesus.
And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said to him, “But we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit!” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” And they said, “Into the baptism of John.” And Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance, telling the people that they should believe in the one who was to come after him—that is, in Jesus.” And when they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 19:2-5&version=LEB
Only after they heard that should believe in Jesus, were they baptized in the Lord. You should base your beliefs off what the Texts actually say, not what you think typified their beliefs.
BTW, you didn't answer my other question
ezra
Member
so if i pursue tongues and learn to speak in tongues great things will happen? i have the bread my Bible .. your trying to get others to agree with your interpretation of scriptures . i have the power i gave you scriptures .. so far all i have seen is your opinion . to say tongues gives you power. takes away the comforter Jesus sent after he ascended .
Acts 4:33King James Version (KJV)
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
this says nothing about tongues .. your placing more emphases on tongues instead of Jesus . i understand your more than likely apostolic . while i may not agree with Pentecostal teaching i respect my pentc bro-sister they treat me well ..
some time back my wife and i attended a singing at a Pentecostal church great service. one spoke in tongues then gave the interpretation a message of warning.. it was done decently and in order . i will be the first to say i do not understand tongues . why some do and some do not . i am not going to get into a doctrinal debate about who is right and who is wrong .
ezra
Member
:amenAccording to post #30, please post an actual verse number.
chessman
Member
Yes, evidently. But that doesn't answer my question nor support your OP's statement (Baptism of the Holy Spirit, is not at salvation).
Let's do some deep Theology of Rom 8:9b and answer a question about it:
Rom 8:9b But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, this person does not belong to him.
Before the Spirit lived in them, did they belong to Christ Jesus?
ezra
Member
i gave him that yesterday he said it was just the filling
godsquadgeek
Member
who said tongues gives power? I think maybe your confusing me with someone else. Tongues is a gift of the spirit, but this power to do ministry comes in many forms, yes I think it CAN be tongues, but it can come in many other forms.
godsquadgeek
Member
maybe this will help, again the whole study is in the OP [edited]
"
The question still must be asked today: Have you received the Spirit since you believed? I know the Spirit is in you, but have you allowed the Spirit to come upon you, to empower you? Or are you still in the Upper Room, hiding out, cloistered away, with a lack of boldness, a lack of living water flowing from you, and lots of dryness within you? Have you, or the ones you care about, received the Holy Ghost since you believed? That’s what Paul asked the men here in Acts 19.
“What Holy Ghost?” they said. “We never heard about this.”
“You’ve never heard about the Holy Spirit?” Paul asked. “Then how were you baptized?” You see, to Paul, baptism in water and baptism in the Spirit were intimately and intricately linked. In Acts 2:38, we read that Peter emerged from the Upper Room and declared to the crowd gathered outside, “Repent and be baptized. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Peter linked water baptism with baptism in the Spirit. In Matthew 3, we read it was when Jesus was baptized in water that the heavens opened and the Spirit descended upon Him in the form of a dove.
I find it extremely significant that throughout Scripture, the Holy Spirit is typified by a dove. The Spirit came in the form of a dove—not a hawk.
When my son Peter-John was about two years old, we were driving into town, and I said, “Peter, do you know what Daddy does every day?”
He said, “Yeah. You’re a creature.”
“No, Peter,” I answered, “I’m not a creature.”
“Oh. You’re a screecher.”
“No, Peter, I’m a preacher.”
Due to the misconception that those who really have the anointing of the Spirit will shout and screech, a lot of preachers are screechers. But the Spirit came not in the form of a screeching, shrieking hawk. Nor did He come in the form of a duck. He’s not a “quack.” Maybe you’ve followed the sad story of Ivan Popov, the evangelist who, claiming to have the power of the Holy Ghost, called people out of the crowd and “miraculously” told them where they were from. As it turned out, Popov was getting his information through the wireless microphones of his assistants planted in the audience.
"
Jon Courson life application commentary.
"
The question still must be asked today: Have you received the Spirit since you believed? I know the Spirit is in you, but have you allowed the Spirit to come upon you, to empower you? Or are you still in the Upper Room, hiding out, cloistered away, with a lack of boldness, a lack of living water flowing from you, and lots of dryness within you? Have you, or the ones you care about, received the Holy Ghost since you believed? That’s what Paul asked the men here in Acts 19.
“What Holy Ghost?” they said. “We never heard about this.”
“You’ve never heard about the Holy Spirit?” Paul asked. “Then how were you baptized?” You see, to Paul, baptism in water and baptism in the Spirit were intimately and intricately linked. In Acts 2:38, we read that Peter emerged from the Upper Room and declared to the crowd gathered outside, “Repent and be baptized. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Peter linked water baptism with baptism in the Spirit. In Matthew 3, we read it was when Jesus was baptized in water that the heavens opened and the Spirit descended upon Him in the form of a dove.
I find it extremely significant that throughout Scripture, the Holy Spirit is typified by a dove. The Spirit came in the form of a dove—not a hawk.
When my son Peter-John was about two years old, we were driving into town, and I said, “Peter, do you know what Daddy does every day?”
He said, “Yeah. You’re a creature.”
“No, Peter,” I answered, “I’m not a creature.”
“Oh. You’re a screecher.”
“No, Peter, I’m a preacher.”
Due to the misconception that those who really have the anointing of the Spirit will shout and screech, a lot of preachers are screechers. But the Spirit came not in the form of a screeching, shrieking hawk. Nor did He come in the form of a duck. He’s not a “quack.” Maybe you’ve followed the sad story of Ivan Popov, the evangelist who, claiming to have the power of the Holy Ghost, called people out of the crowd and “miraculously” told them where they were from. As it turned out, Popov was getting his information through the wireless microphones of his assistants planted in the audience.
"
Jon Courson life application commentary.
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godsquadgeek
Member
more verses on the baptism of the holy spirit: "have you received the holy spirit since you believed?"
Luk 3:16; Jhn 1:33; Act 1:4-5; Jhn 20:22; 1Cr 12:13; Jhn 14:17; Rom 8:9; Jhn 7:37-38; Eph 5:18; Luk 11:13; Mat 3:11; Act 1:4; Act 2:1-4; Jhn 20:22; Act 2:38-39; Act 8:16-17; Act 11:15; Act 19:2 Jhn 7:37; Hbr 4:12; Isa 44:3; Jhn 7:39 here are some audio commentaries on acts 19: https://www.blueletterbible.org/aud...pirit.cfm#The_Baptism_of_the_Holy_Spirit_Pt_2
Luk 3:16; Jhn 1:33; Act 1:4-5; Jhn 20:22; 1Cr 12:13; Jhn 14:17; Rom 8:9; Jhn 7:37-38; Eph 5:18; Luk 11:13; Mat 3:11; Act 1:4; Act 2:1-4; Jhn 20:22; Act 2:38-39; Act 8:16-17; Act 11:15; Act 19:2 Jhn 7:37; Hbr 4:12; Isa 44:3; Jhn 7:39 here are some audio commentaries on acts 19: https://www.blueletterbible.org/aud...pirit.cfm#The_Baptism_of_the_Holy_Spirit_Pt_2
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