Belief and Faith

[WIP]

Your post reminds me of Cold Case Christianity.
About an investigator that set out to prove Christianity wrong and instead became a Christian. An attorney also wrote a similar book, can't remember the title right now.

About the hay: You do what your conscience tells you but the hay is a gift to your mother in law. If we had to pay taxes on gifts, gift-giving would seriously slow down!

I agree with your wife.
(woman always have some comment to make - sorry)

Here's my take on it. My haybine, baler, hay racks, tractors, etc. have all been depreciated against my farm revenue. Twine, seed, fertilizer, fuel, etc. are also declared costs against my farm revenue. These things are all part of the cost of doing business. If I grow hay and give it to my relatives while claiming the expenses, I am guilty of income tax evasion which is a crime in the US.

 

[GodsGrace]

Here's my take on it. My haybine, baler, hay racks, tractors, etc. have all been depreciated against my farm revenue. Twine, seed, fertilizer, fuel, etc. are also declared costs against my farm revenue. These things are all part of the cost of doing business. If I grow hay and give it to my relatives while claiming the expenses, I am guilty of income tax evasion which is a crime in the US.

It's a crime everywhere!

Yes. We DO have to follow our conscience. I don't understand paying taxes on a gift, but you're sure of what you're doing, and I'm not in your situation...so DO IT!

Did you know that many years ago the Italian govt wanted to IMPRISON Sofia Loren for tax evasion? Of course she claims it was a mistake, but she did have to leave Italy not to be imprisoned. I believe she went to live in France. It just came to mind -

BTW, it's so wonderful that you've become a Christian. What a testimony!

 

[Chopper]

Are Belief and Faith the same?

If I believe in someone, I also have faith in them.
Faith, as in trust.

If I have faith in someone, I also believe in them.
Believe in, as trust in.

Right?

Good subject Wondering. Actuary I wish the word "faith" would disappear. New believers really have a hard time using what that word is intended for. There is a supernatural energy released from Christ Jesus when this word faith is used correctly. To remedy this, instead of using faith, use BELIEF.

Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

Now, if we replace the word "faith" with "believe" The verse is better understood IMO and becomes more powerful. See how it works.... "And the life I now live in the flesh I live by belief in the Son of God," Makes better sense, do you agree?

 

[GodsGrace]

Good subject Wondering. Actuary I wish the word "faith" would disappear. New believers really have a hard time using what that word is intended for. There is a supernatural energy released from Christ Jesus when this word faith is used correctly. To remedy this, instead of using faith, use BELIEF.

Galatians 2:20 "I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

Now, if we replace the word "faith" with "believe" The verse is better understood IMO and becomes more powerful. See how it works.... "And the life I now live in the flesh I live by belief in the Son of God," Makes better sense, do you agree?

Hi Chopper
I thought about this a little...here's what came to mind.

Those that are of our epoch understand what faith is,,,having faith in someone is trusting that person and believing in them. These days I'm not so sure the word faith is understood, but you would know more about this. Whereas believing in something or someone could sound more concrete to a younger person.

Also, some words were not translated very well in our Bible's.
For instance the word believe was used in some places where the word obey should have been used. I could get you the verses if you want, but you probably already know this.

So, yes, I'm good with your idea.

Are you still studying the Jewish or Hebrew culture?

 

[MarkT]

Well J,
Here's my comprehension level.
You're calvinist in beliefs and do not say so.
Why is it that calvinist's are so hesitant to say that they are of this belief system?

John 3:16 tells me that we have free will to choose to believe in God's only begotten (unique) son.

Deuteronomy 30:19 tells me that I have a choice to choose life or to choose death.

Galatians 5:13 tells me that I am a free person.

John 7:17 tells me I can choose to do God's will.

Where in the entire bible does it say I DO NOT have free will?
WHEN was it taken away from me?

What do you mean by freewill? Do you mean God free in the sense that we are not subject to God? How can those who possess his Spirit say they are God free?

 

[GodsGrace]

What do you mean by freewill? Do you mean God free in the sense that we are not subject to God? How can those who possess his Spirit say they are God free?

No!
When we speak about free will in the biblical sense, we mean free to make a moral choice.

Our will is free to either follow God or not. (atheism).
Our will is free to obey God or not.

Some understand free will to mean that we are free to do what we WANT to do...for instance - fly. This is not what free will mean.

I've never heard it said that it means we are "God free".
No one is God free -- not even atheists, since it's God that maintains the universe and everything in it (us).

P.S. This is called libertarian free will, in case you want to look it up.

 

[Chopper]

Hi Chopper
I thought about this a little...here's what came to mind.

Those that are of our epoch understand what faith is,,,having faith in someone is trusting that person and believing in them. These days I'm not so sure the word faith is understood, but you would know more about this. Whereas believing in something or someone could sound more concrete to a younger person.

Also, some words were not translated very well in our Bible's.
For instance the word believe was used in some places where the word obey should have been used. I could get you the verses if you want, but you probably already know this.

So, yes, I'm good with your idea.

Are you still studying the Jewish or Hebrew culture?

Yes, I'm still studying and pleasure reading from my Paleo Hebrew Bible, the "HalleluYah Scriptures". That ancient Hebrew text does not use the word "faith", it uses "belief". That's where I arrived at my understanding of the two words.

Love You my Sister.
Chopper

 

[MarkT]

No!
When we speak about free will in the biblical sense, we mean free to make a moral choice.

Our will is free to either follow God or not. (atheism).
Our will is free to obey God or not.

Some understand free will to mean that we are free to do what we WANT to do...for instance - fly. This is not what free will mean.

I've never heard it said that it means we are "God free".
No one is God free -- not even atheists, since it's God that maintains the universe and everything in it (us).

P.S. This is called libertarian free will, in case you want to look it up.

Free from what?

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, I'm still studying and pleasure reading from my Paleo Hebrew Bible, the "HalleluYah Scriptures". That ancient Hebrew text does not use the word "faith", it uses "belief". That's where I arrived at my understanding of the two words.

Love You my Sister.
Chopper

Chopper, I know someone who taught both Koine Greek and Hebrew.
He reads the O.T. in Hebrew and the N.T. in Greek.
I'm sooooo jealous!
(is that a sin???!!!)
LOL

 

[GodsGrace]

Free from what?

If you're asking the above question, it means you have not understood what I posted.

We are free from the sting of death and the power satan had over us before we became born again. This is what Jesus freed us from when He went to the cross.

But this has nothing to do with having free will.
Do you think you CHOOSE to obey God or not, or do you think HE MAKES you obey or not?

 

[MarkT]

If you're asking the above question, it means you have not understood what I posted.

We are free from the sting of death and the power satan had over us before we became born again. This is what Jesus freed us from when He went to the cross.

But this has nothing to do with having free will.
Do you think you CHOOSE to obey God or not, or do you think HE MAKES you obey or not?

I'm talking about freewill. What is your will free of? God? You can't be free of God and have his Spirit too.

I do what I do out of love, to please my Father. I didn't choose to love my Father. And yes, His Spirit does drive me.

 

[GodsGrace]

I'm talking about freewill. What is your will free of? God? You can't be free of God and have his Spirit too.

I do what I do out of love, to please my Father. I didn't choose to love my Father. And yes, His Spirit does drive me.

I'm really sorry that I'm not understanding you.
What do YOU believe free will is?
I did say I'm speaking about biblical libertarian free will.

When did I ever say I want to be free of God??

We all do what we do out of Love for our Father.

You say you didn't choose to love God.
WHY do you love Him then?

 

[JLB]

What is your will free of?

She is not saying our will is “free of” something.

By saying “free will” she is saying we can choose to obey God or not.

We can choose to obey our laws, or parents or police, or employer rules or a million other things that require us to make choices everyday.


I think some try to marginalize or down play mans God given ability to choose right from wrong because it makes us responsible for our own actions, rather than having someone else to blame for our actions (choices).


Go told Cain he had a choice to make concerning sin.


If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Genesis 4:7


God told Cain that he himself should rule over sin.


JLB

 

[MarkT]

She is not saying our will is “free of” something.

By saying “free will” she is saying we can choose to obey God or not.

We can choose to obey our laws, or parents or police, or employer rules or a million other things that require us to make choices everyday.


I think some try to marginalize or down play mans God given ability to choose right from wrong because it makes us responsible for our own actions, rather than having someone else to blame for our actions (choices).


Go told Cain he had a choice to make concerning sin.


If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” Genesis 4:7


God told Cain that he himself should rule over sin.


JLB

free will noun [mass noun] the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion.

I hear you say you have the power to choose to obey God or not to obey God. So what are you free of in terms of constraint. God? How can you be free of God and have his Spirit too?

 

[JLB]

So what are you free of in terms of constraint. God? How can you be free of God and have his Spirit too?

I’m is not saying our will is “free of” something.

By saying “free will” I am saying we can choose to obey God or not.

We can choose to obey our laws, or parents or police, or employer rules or a million other things that require us to make choices everyday.


I think some try to marginalize or down play mans God given ability to choose right from wrong because it makes us responsible for our own actions, rather than having someone else to blame for our actions (choices).


Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage.
Galatians 5:1


and again


For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. Galatians 5:13




JLB

 

[MarkT]

She is not saying our will is “free of” something.

By saying “free will” she is saying we can choose to obey God or not.

We can choose to obey our laws, or parents or police, or employer rules or a million other things that require us to make choices everyday.

Knowing the fear of the Lord, there is no other option. Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

Without the fear of the Lord there isn't even the beginning of wisdom.

 

[JLB]

Knowing the fear of the Lord, there is no other option. Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

Without the fear of the Lord there isn't even the beginning of wisdom.

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life,
To turn one away from the snares of death.
Proverbs 14:27


Can there be eternal life without the fear of the Lord?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Knowing the fear of the Lord, there is no other option. Proverbs 9:10
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.

Without the fear of the Lord there isn't even the beginning of wisdom.

29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the Lord,
Proverbs 1:29


It’s still a choice.


JLB

 

[MarkT]

29 Because they hated knowledge
And did not choose the fear of the Lord,
Proverbs 1:29


It’s still a choice.


JLB

That's right. Chose the fear of the Lord.

The fear of the Lord prolongs life Pr. 10:23, is a fountain of life Pr. 14:27, is instruction in wisdom Pr. 15:33, leads to life Pr. 19:23

If you fear God, then there's no not obeying. No option. No choice.

 

[JLB]

That's right. Chose the fear of the Lord.

The fear of the Lord prolongs life Pr. 10:23, is a fountain of life Pr. 14:27, is instruction in wisdom Pr. 15:33, leads to life Pr. 19:23

If you fear God, then there's no not obeying. No option. No choice.

There’s always the choice or the option to obey the Spirit of Christ within us, or to obey the sinful desires of the flesh.


Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16



JLB