Believe in God, you will be saved

[Dorothy Mae]

do you have any idea what your posting?

John 14:1​

“Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.” i am not concerned about feeling im concerned over your post reading over this has me standing on my head. trying to figure you out.... john 10: 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. 29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. 30I and my Father are one. 31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

Thanks for trying to figure me out and not write me off. The title of the thread is misleading at best. Jesus didn’t say “Believe in God and you will be saved.” He didn’t promise them anything for believing in God.

I can gladly explain my motives. I care about other people, especially the unsaved, hearing the truth. That’s it. There are atheists on this site.

They, like all of us, peruse through the titles and here one promises Heaven if they only believe God exists. I know that’s not in the body and I know the poster doesn’t believe that as stated. I would encourage her not to entitle her pieces with promises God never made and if anything, just believing in God is an attribute of the demons and they are not saved.

So that’s it. I just care about any atheist or one who believes strongly on God but not Jesus and is assured by the title that they are saved. Many people believe in God, fewer believe in Jesus.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Atheists don't believe in God and for the most part are well versed in regard to Christianity. If they were interested in salvation reason would state their not atheists and would dig deeper than a title of a single thread on this board. My Muslim friends are aware of the need of Jesus in regard to Christianity beliefs and reason would state if they were interested in Christianity and leaving behind their faith and what they believe to be true it wouldn't be the title of a single thread on this board. Further you apparently set aside the feelings of another on this board and claim you motive is love. Frankly I don't believe you.

You put the responsibility for finding truth callously on the unbelievers and claim I set aside the feelings for others.

 

[stovebolts]

Thank you, and now I understand yours. I wouldn't call it 'easy believism' rather something like 'presumed grace' or as you say- a calloused heart.

Your welcome. I know we can all use different coined words to mean something slightly different, so it’s good you understand my perspective. Thank you for stepping back and doing so.

As far as the thief having been a follower of Jesus- that's pure speculation.

There will always be speculation.

39 One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: “Aren’t you the Messiah? Save yourself and us!”
I think it’s pretty safe to say this man knew of Jesus and did not believe Jesus was the Messiah. Jesus was no stranger to this man otherwise, why do you think he hurled insults?

40 But the other criminal rebuked him. “Don’t you fear God,” he said, “since you are under the same sentence?41 We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong.”

How does this second man come to the conclusion that “But this man has done nothing wrong”?

I believe it’s a safe bet to say this man was a follower of Jesus. He does not cast insult. Instead, he confesses his sin and affirms Jesus as Messiah.

And there's no need for it to have been the case as if that was some sort of condition for mercy. While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.

Poor exegesis will create poor theology. When we apply Paul’s words to the thief on the cross, we have to discuss faith and hope. Clearly the second thief showed great faith toward God and Jesus. And that faith produced hope.

We see this faith and hope very clearly.

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

It should be very clear that the second thief believed Jesus was the messiah and very likely a follower of Jesus.

 

[Randy]

You put the responsibility for finding truth callously on the unbelievers and claim I set aside the feelings for others.

Are you still trying to justify your nonsense reasoning.

 

[jerry63935]

42 Then he said, “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.

It should be very clear that the second thief believed Jesus was the messiah and very likely a follower of Jesus.

we really dont if he was before placed on the cross or after . fact of it is he got things squared away before he died

 

[jerry63935]

Jesus taught us how to pray...
Our Father who art in Heaven
Hallowed by Thy name

yes this is the model prayer not just the words each line explains his nature who he is far to many people use this as a prayer . the real Lords prayer is found in john 17 .where Christ prayed for us

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Are you still trying to justify your nonsense reasoning.

Randy, let’s move on.

 

[jerry63935]

So that’s it. I just care about any atheist or one who believes strongly on God but not Jesus and is assured by the title that they are saved. Many people believe in God, fewer believe in Jesus.

i can understand what your saying .but its the way you worded it that threw things off and raised red flags

just believing in God is an attribute of the demons and they are not saved.

this is true

 

[jerry63935]

Are you still trying to justify your nonsense reasoning.

read her reply to my post

 

[Mister E]

This may help. My mind was jogged by something I learned about the tense of Greek verbs in my very first year as a Christian newbie with Campus Crusade. This links to a discussion specifically about "believes" in John 3:16: http://www.jba.gr/The-present-tense-in-Greek-A-demonstration-using-John-3-16.htm.

The point is that the present tense in Greek is unusual. Unless there is some clue that a verb is being used in a different way, the present tense denotes an action that happens now and continues to happen. So "believes" would mean something closer to "believes and continues to believe" - which is the correct theology in my opinion. (The link translates it as "goes on believing," but the point is the same.)

For the thief that would mean what? 5 minutes? 15? An hour?

The promise of salvation is exactly that-- a promise, not something received at the moment, but a guarantee for the future. That's what and why you have to believe. You have to trust and accept that the promise has merit, that it will be honored. The fact that the thief was hanging on the cross has nothing to do with the promise Jesus made- it isn't location-based and it isn't a limited time offer.

 

[Runner]

For the thief that would mean what? 5 minutes? 15? An hour?

Right - something like that. That's the whole point of Jesus' parable about workers who are hired at various times throughout the day but all receive the same wage at the end. If the parable had included those who walked off the job at noon but still received the same wage at the end of the day, then we'd have something to talk about!

The promise of salvation is exactly that-- a promise, not something received at the moment, but a guarantee for the future. That's what and why you have to believe. You have to trust and accept that the promise has merit, that it will be honored. The fact that the thief was hanging on the cross has nothing to do with the promise Jesus made- it isn't location-based and it isn't a limited time offer.

I'm not quite following. I don't see it as any more complex than "salvation is for those who continue in the faith to the end of their journey on earth." Whether my life satisfies the requirement of "believing" is up to God.

As I've said elsewhere, I entered Christianity through Campus Crusade and the Southern Baptist Church. For quite some time, I thought all Christians believed salvation occurred at a moment in time - by "accepting Jesus." As I actually studied, however - both the NT and theology - I gradually began to wonder "Where does anyone get that idea?" You can construct such a faith from isolated verses, but "continuing to the end" is clearly the overall thrust of the NT.

With the Orthodox and many others, I now believe I'll find out if I'm saved when I die.

Is this a faith with less certainty (or at least pretend certainty)? Absolutely - and I think that's the way it's meant to be.

 

[Mister E]

Right - something like that. That's the whole point of Jesus' parable about workers who are hired at various times throughout the day but all receive the same wage at the end. If the parable had included those who walked off the job at noon but still received the same wage at the end of the day, then we'd have something to talk about!

I'm not quite following. I don't see it as any more complex than "salvation is for those who continue in the faith to the end of their journey on earth." Whether my life satisfies the requirement of "believing" is up to God.

As I've said elsewhere, I entered Christianity through Campus Crusade and the Southern Baptist Church. For quite some time, I thought all Christians believed salvation occurred at a moment in time - by "accepting Jesus." As I actually studied, however - both the NT and theology - I gradually began to wonder "Where does anyone get that idea?" You can construct such a faith from isolated verses, but "continuing to the end" is clearly the overall thrust of the NT.

With the Orthodox and many others, I now believe I'll find out if I'm saved when I die.

Is this a faith with less certainty (or at least pretend certainty)? Absolutely - and I think that's the way it's meant to be.

I agree--- If there was such a thing as certainty, faith would no longer be needed. That's where believe enters the equation. It's a promise you accept not knowing-- but believe (in faith) that the Promiser is faithful.

 

[Randy]

read her reply to my post

Rather
It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God.’ "Everyone" who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

The title of a thread on a Christian forum shouldn't keep one from Jesus. Especially when the post below had much more to state. Those who seek find.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

i can understand what your saying .but its the way you worded it that threw things off and raised red flags


this is true

Could be. I don’t doubt you.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

The title of a thread on a Christian forum shouldn't keep one from Jesus. Especially when the post below had much more to state. Those who seek find.

If it does, the writer will answer to Jesus for promising something He never promised. The truth is always better.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

I agree--- If there was such a thing as certainty, faith would no longer be needed. That's where believe enters the equation. It's a promise you accept not knowing-- but believe (in faith) that the Promiser is faithful.

The three friends of Daniel were certain and yet had faith. They are not mutually exclusive.

 

[stovebolts]

we really dont if he was before placed on the cross or after . fact of it is he got things squared away before he died

Sorry Jerry, that doesn’t make since to me.

If he didn’t believe Jesus was the Messiah, why would he say,
“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

 

[Randy]

If it does, the writer will answer to Jesus for promising something He never promised. The truth is always better.

I thought we moved on?
It's each persons responsibility to come to Christ. Again you reference the title and not the post.
If you think the poster will receive judgment because of the title of this thread you don't know my Lord.
Nothing is hidden from Him. He knows ALL that we know and if someone is looking at Christian forums and goes through their entire life its highly unreasonable that the title of this thread caused them not to go to Christ.

 

[Randy]

Sorry Jerry, that doesn’t make since to me.

If he didn’t believe Jesus was the Messiah, why would he say,
“Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.”

I think it's very clear Jesus saw His faith. Two asked something of Him and only one received a reply. The one who believed in Him.

That said repentance is always a good start.

 

[jerry63935]

Sorry Jerry, that doesn’t make since to me.

i didnt ask for it to make sense i could say the same thing about your post.. when the fact is we dont know anything about the thief on the cross . there cam ne many speculations .bottom line is the only thing that matter is he got his house in order.. me personally i think and do believe HE had a Jesus encounter on the cross . could he have been saved ahead of time? anything is possible but until there is more scripture to show one way or the other. its just pure speculation