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Believe in God, you will be saved

Stove, I think you’re looking at this theologically. I’m looking at it practically. I see an incongruence with a man becoming a christian and making a living by being a criminal. (I do take the description as is, he was a thief, and he even admitted that he deserved his punishment.) There is a difference between not being sinless (the general population if not all
of us) and making a living through criminal activity (not the general population.) That’s all I meant. It’s hard to imagine him being a part of a group of believers and when the men exchange their job titles he casually mentions that he’s a thief. (Of course thieves don’t admit publicly their professional pursuits but it means they add lying to their list of affronts to God and man.)
I understand, and I agree.
What I wish to highlight is this. Sometimes titles in our Bibles can be misleading. Nowhere in scripture itself is this man labeled a thief other than what has been added as a title which has been preached from the pulpit.

I know you’ve done some research on crucifixion, so I will assume your aware that it was used primarily for slaves and Enemies of the State. Many Jewish zealots were crucified and these crucifixions increased to 70 ad. Don’t forget that Jesus picked a zealot among his 12.

So this idea that the criminal was a thief who makes a living out of stealing comes from a larger distorted theological view which derives more from the shallow doctrines of men than it does historical evidence. These shallow doctrines want us to believe the man on the cross was a vile thief of the most wretched type who suddenly sees the light and has some sort of death bed confession. Balderdash I say. Balderdash.

Zealots knew the penalty for their destructive actions against Rome. They knew they “deserved” their punishment.

Quick question for you Dorthy. Are YOU willing to pick up your cross and follow Jesus? Or is that hyperbole?

Bottom line, I do not believe the criminal made a living stealing for a living. These types of criminals were punished in other ways such as flogging or jail time. Again, crucifixion was primarily used on slaves and enemies of the state, not a common thief.
 
I said two things:

1. Believing, in the Greek (I hate to "go to the Greek") means more than just believing mentally.
Most Christians know that it means to trust and to follow and to be a disciple. If someone things JUST BELIEVING is enough, then they're just fooling themselves, and we both know this type of believer. Until proven otherwise, I tend to give the benefit of the doubt to a new poster and go by what I just wrote.

2. I said that we must believe and that believing means obeying.
The word BELIEVE, as it was written in Greek and as it meant in NT times, means that we must not only believe (in the Greek sense as above) but also OBEY. In fact, the words disbelieve and disobey are almost synonymous in that language.

I think we agree. I just think maybe you hang on to the word believe to mean a mental belief.
Sorry if I'm wrong. You could clarify.
I mostly agree with you....but there is one part in your post I see a little tricky....
Believes, belief, believe.....I tend to now say is with intent to follow...

Why Because I believe man is justified based on their intent, the motive ...it is God who moves people to act and I believe it's by His continued faithfulness.

It is man that look at the outward appearance but God that looks at the heart....What do you think......my friend in Christ?

God is Spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth...don't quote me....
...............
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
 
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We are sanctified by FAITH in Jesus there is no other way and Johns baptism did NOT take away sin.

and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me
What is the difference between "by" what Jesus did and "through" what Jesus did?
 
What is the difference between "by" what Jesus did and "through" what Jesus did?
In Col 1:20 it would be the person of the Father was pleased to reconcile to Himself through Jesus by the blood shed on the cross. Not John's baptism. John wasn't sent to forgive sin. He was sent to prepare the people for Jesus.
 
I understand, and I agree.
What I wish to highlight is this. Sometimes titles in our Bibles can be misleading. Nowhere in scripture itself is this man labeled a thief other than what has been added as a title which has been preached from the pulpit.

I know you’ve done some research on crucifixion, so I will assume your aware that it was used primarily for slaves and Enemies of the State. Many Jewish zealots were crucified and these crucifixions increased to 70 ad. Don’t forget that Jesus picked a zealot among his 12.

So this idea that the criminal was a thief who makes a living out of stealing comes from a larger distorted theological view which derives more from the shallow doctrines of men than it does historical evidence. These shallow doctrines want us to believe the man on the cross was a vile thief of the most wretched type who suddenly sees the light and has some sort of death bed confession. Balderdash I say. Balderdash.

Zealots knew the penalty for their destructive actions against Rome. They knew they “deserved” their punishment.

Quick question for you Dorthy. Are YOU willing to pick up your cross and follow Jesus? Or is that hyperbole?

Bottom line, I do not believe the criminal made a living stealing for a living. These types of criminals were punished in other ways such as flogging or jail time. Again, crucifixion was primarily used on slaves and enemies of the state, not a common thief.
Dear Stove,

Thank you for your kind words and gentle response. I will let the matter of the thief go for now and address the personal question, which I’m glad to answer. Since it’s personal I will have to give personal details. Pardon me if it seems I am boasting. I do not see how I can be honest and do anything else.

I have personally sacrificed much in pursuit of following Him and knowing Him. So when I write of confidence of the truth of Jesus’ teaching, I speak from the position of believing so strong, I have sacrificed much but my physical life although my health I laid down when I went overseas and carry in my body the price of that choice. I count it all as less than what I have gained but that doesn’t mean it was nothing.

I left my language, my culture, my family, my friends, my community, my financial freedom and have known such loneliness it’s beyond words. But I KNOW what I believe on some matters is truth.

I don’t have all truth or exhaustive truth. That is the fruit of many lives. But the bits of what I do know is rock solid true. And I know the difference.

When doubts come of a certain kind, they are from the enemy and I rebuke them. They are not my thoughts. That accuser of the family of God is not silent. I’ll give an example.

One time, as a result of difficult obedience, I was given a gift of faith for a difficult challenge we faced. It was a specific promise. Then, during a service, doubts began to creep in. Jesus spoke to me said, “don’t let the Enemy steal what I’ve given you.” I rebuked the Enemy and the doubts fled. If a believe cannot recognize the Enemy’s lies, he will be tossed about. The promise He gave was fulfilled as promised and it was remarkable.

So yes, when He’s asked, I’ve laid down my life and embraced what I must endure. The result has been

knowing Him and the fellowship of his sufferings. The power of His resurrection is still before me.

In as much gentleness as I can muster

D
 
We are sanctified by FAITH in Jesus there is no other way and Johns baptism did NOT take away sin.
To continue that truth of the first part of your post, we are water baptized into Christ and into His death in order for that holy blood to sanctify us now in the NT.
John the Baptist didn't have that aspect of baptism but his baptism into repentance did take away past sins.
It is written..."John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins." (Mark 1:4)
Why don't you believe what is written?
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me
Amen.
"In me" is such a crucial portion of that scripture, and we get "in Him" by being baptized into Him.
It is written..."Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. (Rom 6:3-7)
We can't be immersed into somebody on a cross and not get their blood on us.
In this case, sanctifying blood.
Glory be to God.
 
The function of the High priest was outlined in Hebrews as one who made a sin offering year after year for his own and the peoples. Jesus was depicted as a High Priest whose offering doesn't cover sin but removes sin. John is not that person. What Jesus did is forever.
Thanks, but the OP'er already replied.
He thought John was wasting his time, just like you seem to think.
I can't agree.
 
I mostly agree with you....but there is one part in your post I see a little tricky....
Believes, belief, believe.....I tend to now say is with intent to follow...

Agreed.
If someone believes in someone, they will tend to follow that person.
Even more so if that person is God.
Believe definitely means to intend to follow.
Matthew 16:24
24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me.

Why Because I believe man is justified based on their intent, the motive ...it is God who moves people to act and I believe it's by His continued faithfulness.

This confuses me a little.
Man is justified when he comes to believe there is a God and that he wishes to serve that God.
Is this an intent, a motive?
I think it could be. Or maybe, it should be.

God is always faithful to us...we have a God that keeps His promises.
To say that God moves people to act is what I don't understand very well.
If by move, you mean inspires, then I agree.
If by move, you mean, that He CAUSES us to act, then I have a problem agreeing.
Why?
Because if we put on God the responsibility of CAUSING us to act...
then we have to also blame Him when we do not respond properly.
I do believe God inspires us and that it is on us to obey Him or not.


It is man that look at the outward appearance but God that looks at the heart....What do you think......my friend in Christ?

God is Spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in Spirit and in truth...don't quote me....
LOL
Yes. God sees the heart. This is why we can judge someone's behavior, but not their standing with God...
(some do like to judge others' souls).

...............
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Amen to that.
 
I wonder if that saying would have been used on the Lord, were He here now.
Too bad you couldn't reply to any of the post.
That says more than your emojis could ever say.
honestly i am down with your false scriptures . i have no time or no desire to even respond
 
Dear Stove,

Thank you for your kind words and gentle response. I will let the matter of the thief go for now and address the personal question, which I’m glad to answer. Since it’s personal I will have to give personal details. Pardon me if it seems I am boasting. I do not see how I can be honest and do anything else.

I have personally sacrificed much in pursuit of following Him and knowing Him. So when I write of confidence of the truth of Jesus’ teaching, I speak from the position of believing so strong, I have sacrificed much but my physical life although my health I laid down when I went overseas and carry in my body the price of that choice. I count it all as less than what I have gained but that doesn’t mean it was nothing.

I left my language, my culture, my family, my friends, my community, my financial freedom and have known such loneliness it’s beyond words. But I KNOW what I believe on some matters is truth.

I don’t have all truth or exhaustive truth. That is the fruit of many lives. But the bits of what I do know is rock solid true. And I know the difference.

When doubts come of a certain kind, they are from the enemy and I rebuke them. They are not my thoughts. That accuser of the family of God is not silent. I’ll give an example.

One time, as a result of difficult obedience, I was given a gift of faith for a difficult challenge we faced. It was a specific promise. Then, during a service, doubts began to creep in. Jesus spoke to me said, “don’t let the Enemy steal what I’ve given you.” I rebuked the Enemy and the doubts fled. If a believe cannot recognize the Enemy’s lies, he will be tossed about. The promise He gave was fulfilled as promised and it was remarkable.

So yes, when He’s asked, I’ve laid down my life and embraced what I must endure. The result has been

knowing Him and the fellowship of his sufferings. The power of His resurrection is still before me.

In as much gentleness as I can muster

D
Thank you for such an honest and moving testimony.
There is power in testimony… power to change lives because Gods workmanship within us is such a beautiful thing.
Let your light shine Sister, and thanks for sharing.
 
Haven't read all, but Randy is correct in saying that baptism, or confession, remove sin and do not cover it up.

I think you agree.
I do agree that (both) baptisms remove/remit sin.
The confession should precede the baptism however.
Confession doesn't "remove sin".
It is the step taken before baptism, before walking in the light.
 
It is the step taken before baptism, before walking in the light.

If a Christian confess his or her sin, will God forgive them and cleanse them of all unrighteousness?


If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:9-10



JLB
 
If a Christian confess his or her sin, will God forgive them and cleanse them of all unrighteousness?
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:9-10
JLB
Yes, if they will get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
From there on, they are able to walk in the light.
Of course further sins reveal they didn't repent of sin at all, so the whole confession was a sham.
 
Thank you for such an honest and moving testimony.
There is power in testimony… power to change lives because Gods workmanship within us is such a beautiful thing.
Let your light shine Sister, and thanks for sharing.
Thank you again for your generous response. The pearl of great price is also of great value. It’s a special privilege and delight to have someone take interest and ask.
 
I do agree that (both) baptisms remove/remit sin.
The confession should precede the baptism however.
Confession doesn't "remove sin".
It is the step taken before baptism, before walking in the light.
This post requires a question.
But, Hopeful, you know I'm not going there.
But you know I respect that you are able to keep God's teachings 100%.
 
Thank you again for your generous response. The pearl of great price is also of great value. It’s a special privilege and delight to have someone take interest and ask.
I think a good testimony is a great witness.

Who was it that said:
Always be a good witness for God,
And if absolutely necessary, use scripture.

Your life is the best witness.
 
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