Believers questions

[donadams]

I know, That is why God sent Luther and Huss and others to clean it up ... but like the Pharisees, the apostate leaders murdered those God raised up to call His people to repent.

Show me that in scripture?

Where does scripture authorize men to correct God’s perfect work???

Truth and the church are from God and are immutable!

 

[atpollard]

“salvation by the shilling”

That’s a clever phrase.
I wish I had been clever enough to think of it … but I never even mentioned it. I said the Church sold indulgences (and I implied that it was contrary to Apostolic Teaching) … which they did (and it is).

 

[atpollard]

Show me that in scripture?

Galatians 2:11-16 [NKJV]
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before [them] all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 "We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

 

[donadams]

That’s a clever phrase.
I wish I had been clever enough to think of it … but I never even mentioned it. I said the Church sold indulgences (and I implied that it was contrary to Apostolic Teaching) … which they did (and it is).

But with no real historical evidence

 

[donadams]

That’s a clever phrase.
I wish I had been clever enough to think of it … but I never even mentioned it. I said the Church sold indulgences (and I implied that it was contrary to Apostolic Teaching) … which they did (and it is).

Indulgences have nothing to do with salvation (mercy) but justice

 

[donadams]

Galatians 2:11-16 [NKJV]
11 Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed; 12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. 13 And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.
14 But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter before [them] all, "If you, being a Jew, live in the manner of Gentiles and not as the Jews, why do you compel Gentiles to live as Jews? 15 "We [who are] Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

A matter of discipline not faith and morals
An apostle can oppose another apostle on this matter

That is why God sent Luther and Huss and others to clean it up ..
Show me this in scripture?
Or where God authorized a reformation?

 

[Highway54]

Believers questions

Is a believer a Christian?

Is a believer saved?

Is a believer a Christian?

Yes

Is a believer saved?

No

 

[donadams]

Yes

No

What are your requirements to be Christian?

 

[Highway54]

What are your requirements to be Christian?

First and foremost: (Matthew 22:37) . . .“‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ As did Jesus: (Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

 

[donadams]

First and foremost: (Matthew 22:37) . . .“‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ As did Jesus: (Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’”

Love of God
What happened to “faith alone”?

Alone, sola, sole, nothing added right?

 

[atpollard]

Love of God
What happened to “faith alone”?

Alone, sola, sole, nothing added right?

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Apostle Paul, Letter to the Ephesians [AD 60]

"In whom was it possible for us, the lawless and ungodly, to be justified, except in the Son of God alone? O sweet exchange, O the incomprehensible work of God, O the unexpected blessings, that the sinfulness of many should be hidden in one righteous man, while the righteousness of one should justify many sinners" - Epistle to Diognetus [AD 130]

"By faith alone one is freely forgiven of all sins and the believer is no longer burdened by the Law for meriting good works. Our works, however, are demonstrative of our faith and will determine whether we are ultimately justified" - Ambrosiaster [4th Century]

"all effort of human argument must be suspended where faith alone is sufficient". - Julian of Toledo [7th Century]

What happened to “faith alone”?

The Church walked away from Apostolic teaching until men rediscovered the actual Word of God for themselves.

 

[Highway54]

Love of God
What happened to “faith alone”?

Alone, sola, sole, nothing added right?

And how do you show love to God? 1 Jn 5:3

 

[donadams]

"For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast." - Apostle Paul, Letter to the Ephesians [AD 60]

"In whom was it possible for us, the lawless and ungodly, to be justified, except in the Son of God alone? O sweet exchange, O the incomprehensible work of God, O the unexpected blessings, that the sinfulness of many should be hidden in one righteous man, while the righteousness of one should justify many sinners" - Epistle to Diognetus [AD 130]

"By faith alone one is freely forgiven of all sins and the believer is no longer burdened by the Law for meriting good works. Our works, however, are demonstrative of our faith and will determine whether we are ultimately justified" - Ambrosiaster [4th Century]

"all effort of human argument must be suspended where faith alone is sufficient". - Julian of Toledo [7th Century]


The Church walked away from Apostolic teaching until men rediscovered the actual Word of God for themselves.

Matt 16:18-29 shall not prevail
Men rediscovered? These men are excommunicated heretics remember

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement

Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone. Mk 16:16 acts 2:38 acts 8:26 Titus 3:5 1 pet 3:20-21

And charity 1 cor 13:2 and 1 cor 13/13


Redemption:
The redemption was accomplished by Christ with no participation on our part!

Justification:
then when we believe in him and his redemption we are justified in that faith and baptism!

Sanctification:
then we are in Christ and his church by grace faith and baptism we practice good works (prayer, alms, fasting, virtues charity, other sacraments etc.

At the hour of death separation from the grace of God by apostasy / rejection of Christ or failing to repent of serious sin a man is lost in damnation! Or

Salvation:
Is for those who are faithful and die in the grace of God united to Christ and in his saints at death enter into eternal salvation!

Titus 2:14
Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, (redemption) and purify unto himself a peculiar people, (justification / baptism notice purify / wash) Jn 3:5 zealous of good works. (Sanctification) Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.
(Salvation)

 

[atpollard]

Men rediscovered? These men are excommunicated heretics remember

The Pharisees rejected the Word for their Traditions, too.
They also murdered those, like Stephen, that chose the living Word of God over their man-made traditions.

 

[atpollard]

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

eph 2:8 does not refer to you’re salvation it’s already past tense when Paul wrote it so it refers redemption accomplished by Christ apart from our involvement

Present active indicative plural VERB (ἐστε - "are ye") with perfect passive participle nominitive plural VERB (σεσῳσμένοι - "saved") ... check for yourself.

2:8 τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον

... so the finished work on the cross, makes us saved now: WE are in the state of "SAVED" by a once-for-all action that need not be repeated. That is Paul's message. He is not telling you "KEEP OBEYING THE LAW AND SOMEDAY JESUS' BLOOD AND YOUR GOOD WORKS MAY BE ENOUGH TO SAVE YOU!"

 

[atpollard]

Why do you not even acknowledge your own Church fathers in your reply?

• "In whom was it possible for us, the lawless and ungodly, to be justified, except in the Son of God alone? O sweet exchange, O the incomprehensible work of God, O the unexpected blessings, that the sinfulness of many should be hidden in one righteous man, while the righteousness of one should justify many sinners" - Epistle to Diognetus [AD 130]
• "By faith alone one is freely forgiven of all sins and the believer is no longer burdened by the Law for meriting good works. Our works, however, are demonstrative of our faith and will determine whether we are ultimately justified" - Ambrosiaster [4th Century]
• "all effort of human argument must be suspended where faith alone is sufficient". - Julian of Toledo [7th Century]

 

[atpollard]

Christian faith includes baptism Jn 3:5 by water and the spirit and not faith alone.

Even the RCC does not twist scripture to teach that God cannot saved without water baptism.
However let's test whether you really mean what you say:

So all babies that die before they can be Baptized are damned, right?​

John 3:5 ... they CANNOT see the Kingdom of God!​

 

[donadams]

And how do you show love to God? 1 Jn 5:3

Obedience
If you love me keep my commandments
Prayer, alms, fasting, suffering, sacraments
Practice of the virtues of Jesus Christ

Does scripture have a list of the “ten” commandments?
Thanks

 

[donadams]

The Pharisees rejected the Word for their Traditions, too.
They also murdered those, like Stephen, that chose the living Word of God over their man-made traditions.

Yes but Christ said they must be obey when in the seat (successors) of Moses (authority) and it was taken from them and given to Peter and the apostles so they having the same authority must be obeyed!

We have no man-made tradition
Only divine and apostolic tradition

Only Christ has authority to establish the church all the rest are the tradition of men

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 acts 1:8 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission as Christ! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema Maranatha.

This extends to the truth and to the church founded by Christ to teach all
men!

Cos Jesus Christ is the truth and cos His church is of divine origin, commissioned to teach the truth!

Christians must be taught and that requires humility! Lk 1:4 matt 28:19-20 matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 acts 2:42 acts 8:31

Teaching authority of the Apostles and their successors founded in the one true church by Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ is the head of the church, (eph 5:23) the body of Christ,
(col 1:18) the new and eternal covenant, (pre-figured Jer 31:31) (Heb 8:8) new covenant replaces the Mosaic covenant, (Heb 8:13) holy mother church replaced Israel Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Christ replaces David as king, (Lk 1:32-33) Jesus Christ is the only mediator between God and men, (1 Tim 2:5 & Heb 12:24) but a mediator remains on earth mediating between God and His people, but Christ ascended to heaven, (acts 1) before He did He founded His church, on Peter, and the apostles, and their successors!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 2:42 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 16:13
Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Apostolic succession: apostles must remain till Christ returns Matt 28:19-20

 

[donadams]

Present active indicative plural VERB (ἐστε - "are ye") with perfect passive participle nominitive plural VERB (σεσῳσμένοι - "saved") ... check for yourself.

2:8 τῇ γὰρ χάριτί ἐστε σεσῳσμένοι διὰ πίστεως καὶ τοῦτο οὐκ ἐξ ὑμῶν θεοῦ τὸ δῶρον

... so the finished work on the cross, makes us saved now: WE are in the state of "SAVED" by a once-for-all action that need not be repeated. That is Paul's message. He is not telling you "KEEP OBEYING THE LAW AND SOMEDAY JESUS' BLOOD AND YOUR GOOD WORKS MAY BE ENOUGH TO SAVE YOU!"

What finished work
Please explain?