Born Again Of The Holy Spirit

[jasonc]

https://faithalone.org/blog/born-from-above/

Not that hard.born afresh,from above .

Nature of us changed, silly argument .

 

[for_his_glory]

I have given you the basic info.
I believe that you are more than capable and able to research what "Born From Above" meant as a classification of the Patriarchs to the Jews of Jesus' day.

Might even be able to Google it...who knows? Stranger things have happened.

All things come from above as God created all things as man is created in His image as He knew us before the foundation of the world. That image is God's love, but many have lost fellowship with that love even from the womb as they grew to deny His very existence. This is why Jesus told Nicodemus that in order to see and even understand the kingdom of God, I might add, we can only see it through His Holy Spirit that opens our Spiritual eyes to see it and our Spiritual ears to hear what God has already spoken about His kingdom and our relationship with Christ.

It's like that of 2 Chronicles 7:13, 14 that if we would humble ourselves before God we would have a renewed beginning of fellowship with Him. It's like that of being created by God from above in His image in our natural birth from the womb. Once we were born many walked away from fellowship with Him even denying His existence which brings natural and Spiritual death. We are only made Spiritually renewed (born again) from above as it is the renewing or rebirth of our spirit as we are joined or indwelled with God's Holy Spirit. The words "born again" are just an analogy of the natural and the Spiritual. Flesh is flesh and spirit is Spirit.

 

[for_his_glory]

Not that hard.born afresh,from above .

Nature of us changed, silly argument .

I believe it is arguments like this that discourages many from seeking God when they come into Christian forums and read this stuff. I can't read Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin or Greek so all I have is my preference being the English KJV of the Bible and the Holy Spirit that teaches me what God wants me to know and understand.

 

[jasonc]

I believe it is arguments like this that discourages many from seeking God when they come into Christian forums and read this stuff. I can't read Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin or Greek so all I have is my preference being the English KJV of the Bible and the Holy Spirit that teaches me what God wants me to know and understand.

I just used google and simply read what John said and also have read sof of the Anglican, and other non evangical churches. they specifically say we don't teach the idea of'being born again " but rather repentance by believing on the Name of Jesus and baptism as command.. when you read the words and listen to what they say or state they say the same thing. they just say being born again as taught today is too simplistic and implies no need of an indepth understanding of what you do and the need to be disciplied. while don't see that but I can see that with they way some post here.

 

[JohnDB]

I believe it is arguments like this that discourages many from seeking God when they come into Christian forums and read this stuff. I can't read Aramaic, Hebrew, Latin or Greek so all I have is my preference being the English KJV of the Bible and the Holy Spirit that teaches me what God wants me to know and understand.

I'm not arguing with anyone. But many are trying to argue.
There's a footnote in every modern Bible over this phrase...I was trying to explain it and got blasted for explaining it. It actually refers to some pretty cool theological truths. But it's not information necessary for someone to have Salvation.

But for those who enjoy exploring these sorts of things...I was giving them something to look at.
There are many people who are interested in something beyond the basics...and it's not going to be something spoon fed from pulpits. But there are very few people helping them find things to study. If you are not interested in this position or understanding it then why do you keep repeating the most common teaching about it?

 

[jasonc]

I'm not arguing with anyone. But many are trying to argue.
There's a footnote in every modern Bible over this phrase...I was trying to explain it and got blasted for explaining it. It actually refers to some pretty cool theological truths. But it's not information necessary for someone to have Salvation.

But for those who enjoy exploring these sorts of things...I was giving them something to look at.
There are many people who are interested in something beyond the basics...and it's not going to be something spoon fed from pulpits. But there are very few people helping them find things to study. If you are not interested in this position or understanding it then why do you keep repeating the most common teaching about it?

my pastor has lamented that the seminaries dont teach the basic stuff he and I discussed about Judaism and its early views that were known commingly by the jews then and the things that Jesus said. in short we make Jesus a gentile these days when he never was.

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not arguing with anyone. But many are trying to argue.
There's a footnote in every modern Bible over this phrase...I was trying to explain it and got blasted for explaining it. It actually refers to some pretty cool theological truths. But it's not information necessary for someone to have Salvation.

But for those who enjoy exploring these sorts of things...I was giving them something to look at.
There are many people who are interested in something beyond the basics...and it's not going to be something spoon fed from pulpits. But there are very few people helping them find things to study. If you are not interested in this position or understanding it then why do you keep repeating the most common teaching about it?

I'm sure we could find many mistakes within all the different translations, but are they intentional mistakes or actually how Old English is compared to modern English or even the difference between all language barriers within all the translations that are out there.

 

[ezra]

imo when we start discrediting the translators we discredit the Bible . when talking about the 2 translators these men put their life on the line .burned at the stake

 

[jasonc]

imo when we start discrediting the translators we discredit the Bible . when talking about the 2 translators these men put their life on the line .burned at the stake

I didn't know that a martry outside of Jesus was perfect in their translation abilities?

the kjv was the first bible in English to use the word baptism as it does. it didn't exist in the English as that. they had no word for it, so they used the word from greek , immerse is what that means. nothing to do with water originally, transliterated. Tyndale didn't preach nor teach eternal damnation but soul sleep and believed in annihilation upon the judgement for the lost.

 

[jasonc]

nor does the use of born again as its a minor error, really change what the message was. to be born with a new Spirit, one from Above. its really petty. and yes JohnDB I had a few bible that had footnotes that explained it, the niv did and the kjv ones with a reference. shown in italics.

 

[JohnDB]

imo when we start discrediting the translators we discredit the Bible . when talking about the 2 translators these men put their life on the line .burned at the stake

I tend to believe that some are honest mistakes and some were done to help the reader understand better.
The one we are discussing in this thread was an honest mistake...they didn't intend to get it wrong...it just happened and continues to be.

 

[ezra]

I didn't know that a martry outside of Jesus was perfect in their translation abilities?

the kjv was the first bible in English to use the word baptism as it does. it didn't exist in the English as that. they had no word for it, so they used the word from greek , immerse is what that means. nothing to do with water originally, transliterated. Tyndale didn't preach nor teach eternal damnation but soul sleep and believed in annihilation upon the judgement for the lost.

i dont think i said they was perfect .did i? i said they put their lives on the line to do this... there was lots of wild beliefs back in them days. there are many men out there good men .see i dont follow the man ..i try to follow Christ i read commentaries on line but they aint the Gospel are they ? i do lots research online i type in phrase like walk as he walked 1 john 2: 6 The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked. see tonight as i deliver the message i focus on our walk i made the statement in sunday school talking about the antichrist technically speaking the jewish nation Israel does not believe in Christ Jesus . they like many have a form of Godliness thus they fall under the class of a antichrist
18 Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they went out from us to demonstrate that all of them do not belong to us.

20 Nevertheless you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.21 I have not written to you that you do not know the truth, but that you do know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist: the person who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. The person who confesses the Son has the Father also. the Bible says they have been blinded but there is coming a time they will come to Christ ..but until then the Bible speaks clearly much like the Muslim nations

 

[for_his_glory]

Mistakes are made as the Holy Spirit will always correct them if we are truly hearing what He teaches us.

 

[JLB]

So logic dictates that your physical birth was your second birth...and your glorified body was your first.

Totally backwards according to scripture brother.

In order to be “born again” (spiritual birth) a person must first be born of natural birth.


Born - Natural birth.
Born again - Spiritual birth.


IOW a person must first be born, in order to be born again.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6




JLB

 

[jasonc]

i dont think i said they was perfect .did i? i said they put their lives on the line to do this... there was lots of wild beliefs back in them days. there are many men out there good men .see i dont follow the man ..i try to follow Christ i read commentaries on line but they aint the Gospel are they ? i do lots research online i type in phrase like walk as he walked 1 john 2: 6 The one who says he resides in God ought himself to walk just as Jesus walked. see tonight as i deliver the message i focus on our walk i made the statement in sunday school talking about the antichrist technically speaking the jewish nation Israel does not believe in Christ Jesus . they like many have a form of Godliness thus they fall under the class of a antichrist
18 Children, it is the last hour, and just as you heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. We know from this that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us, because if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But they went out from us to demonstrate that all of them do not belong to us.

20 Nevertheless you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know.21 I have not written to you that you do not know the truth, but that you do know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar but the person who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This one is the antichrist: the person who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Everyone who denies the Son does not have the Father either. The person who confesses the Son has the Father also. the Bible says they have been blinded but there is coming a time they will come to Christ ..but until then the Bible speaks clearly much like the Muslim nations

Tyndale and luther are contemporaries, the kjv king james and the Anglican church in their time was quite hostile by arms to the catholics.

looks like I need to delve in the the macro church history instead of the local histories of branaching here that I know for photography and oral history recollection. that is bad enough, I cant imagine the centuries of this breaking into myriads. I have a hyper Calvinist church here that in the south county is the oldest, 1905.

 

[ezra]

Tyndale and luther are contemporaries, the kjv king james and the Anglican church in their time was quite hostile by arms to the catholics.

looks like I need to delve in the the macro church history instead of the local histories of branaching here that I know for photography and oral history recollection. that is bad enough, I cant imagine the centuries of this breaking into myriads. I have a hyper Calvinist church here that in the south county is the oldest, 1905.

a scripture in proverbs comes to mind there is a way that seems right to man

 

[jasonc]

a scripture in proverbs comes to mind there is a way that seems right to man

we we are talking about the times when this particular translation was happening.

off topic local church planting history of the time when It was dangerous in my state to plant them is interesting. as one had to travel to homesteads to minister and that could get you killed due to wild life.

 

[Walpole]

Totally backwards according to scripture brother.

In order to be “born again” (spiritual birth) a person must first be born of natural birth.


Born - Natural birth.
Born again - Spiritual birth.


IOW a person must first be born, in order to be born again.


That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:6




JLB

Isn't it illogical to presume someone hasn't already been born ("natural birth")?

That's like saying if you want eternal life, you must first have a temporal life. (The former presupposes the latter.)

Help me understand your logic.

 

[chessman]

Isn't it illogical to presume someone hasn't already been born ("natural birth")?

Angels (spirit beings) haven’t been born.

 

[Walpole]

Angels (spirit beings) haven’t been born.

There is no instruction in Scripture which says angels (spirit beings) must be born again (the topic to which I was posting).

Thus your post is a non-sequitur.