By His Stripes we are Healed !

[GodspromisesRyes]

In the word of God, what is the difference we see Jesus make between those who recieved healing from him and those who did not?

 

[follower of Christ]

In the word of God, what is the difference we see Jesus make between those who recieved healing from him and those who did not?

hmmm.
Jesus came here with a mission, friend. Part of that mission including performing miracles so that the Jews could SEE them and STILL not believe.
I dont care what sematics games you play....I dont care what distractions you pull....what I care about is the FACT that there is no scriptures that TELL US to expect that ALL of us WILL BE healed physically, and like it or not Timothy being told to drink a little wine REFUTES your error entirely, even if C cant handle the fact that it IS literal wine being spoken of.

I figured there'd be some rejection of Pauls thorn...thats fine since scripture DOESNT define it precisely.
But with Timothy we KNOW he had a stomach ailment of some sort and we KNOW that Paul told him to use wine to handle it.
That simply cannot allow your error to be true, Im afraid.

.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

what did JESUS say the difference was between those He healed and those not healed?

 

[follower of Christ]

what did JESUS say the difference was between those He healed and those not healed?

hmmm.
Jesus came here with a mission, friend. Part of that mission including performing miracles so that the Jews could SEE them and STILL not believe.
I dont care what sematics games you play....I dont care what distractions you pull....what I care about is the FACT that there is no scriptures that TELL US to expect that ALL of us WILL BE healed physically, and like it or not Timothy being told to drink a little wine REFUTES your error entirely, even if C cant handle the fact that it IS literal wine being spoken of.

I figured there'd be some rejection of Pauls thorn...thats fine since scripture DOESNT define it precisely.
But with Timothy we KNOW he had a stomach ailment of some sort and we KNOW that Paul told him to use wine to handle it.
That simply cannot allow your error to be true, Im afraid.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

wine now does not indicate healing never, that is a guess on your part that entirely leaves out everything you do not know but assume into that one sentence, as compaired to the too many to mention numerous examples of healing by faith for Gods people and His promises.

Ok you do not wish to answer that question so let me ask you another.

The disciples were told to go preach to the nations- to HEAL the sick, CLEANSE the lepers, RAISE THE DEAD, cast out demons. Then we see examples of them doing this and never do they say "well it isnt Gods will for you" we also do not ever see them stopping to pray to God first before commanding it done to make sure it is Gods will for that certian person to be healed. Nor did Jesus ever command them to make sure it is Gods will before they command a person healed so my question is- where is the proof it may not be Gods will to heal a believer? I want SCRIPTURE proof, not assumptions not what your eyes see today, but the word of God.

 

[follower of Christ]

wine now does not indicate healing never,

Sorry friend but what it DOES do is PROVE that Paul did NOT tell Timothy this nonsense that you and others push that he was 'healed at the cross'.
Utter rubbish.

that is a guess on your part that entirely leaves out everything you do not know but assume into that one sentence, as compaired to the too many to mention numerous examples of healing by faith for Gods people and His promises.

Sorry, WHERE was that passage again that says ALL WILL BE HEALED ????

Ok you do not wish to answer that question so let me ask you another.

I did answer.
You simply didnt like the response you were given.

The disciples were told to go preach to the nations- to HEAL the sick, CLEANSE the lepers, RAISE THE DEAD, cast out demons.

Im sorry, were they told to heal EVERY one of them ?
Could so few men have healed EVERY sick person on earth ?
They were told to heal....so what ? That doesnt SAY that ALL WILL BE healed.

I want SCRIPTURE proof, not assumptions not what your eyes see today, but the word of God.

Sorry but YOU are the one claiming that ALL WILL BE HEALED.
YOU have the burden of proof, not me.
Dont put YOUR job on us... ;)
So far ALL you have shown is that some people were healed. Big deal...we ALL know that already !
Now SHOW US where it SAYS that ALL WILL BE HEALED !
Or just admit that youre ADDING to the intent.

 

[follower of Christ]

The disciples were told to go preach to the nations- to HEAL the sick, CLEANSE the lepers, RAISE THE DEAD, cast out demons.

hmmm.
And He ALSO told them that if they drank poison that it WOULDNT hurt them.
Care to put YOUR faith to the test here, poster ?
Or is it just everyone else that your claiming has to test their faith and youre exempt ? ;)

(Mark 16:18 KJV) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Tell us, G...do you talk the talk but dont have the faith for walking the walk ?
Why stop at healing and demons ?....

Let me guess, you simply DONT have faith enough to drink a deadly thing because you KNOW that it would be testing God...EVEN THO the TEXT SAYS if we drink a deadly thing it shall not hurt us.

And do you play with snakes too ?

Youre no better than anyone here and you have no more faith than ANY of us.

These miracles were SIGNS to show evidence of the church and its existence, poster..

(Mark 16:17 KJV) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

...they were NOT MEANT to be used in such a perverse way as to say that ALL WILL BE HEALED anymore than ALL WILL speak in tongues or ALL WILL drink poisons.
YOU simply apply ONE sign that YOU like most and try to ignore the rest that you dont have faith enough to carry out yourself.


We done here ?

/

 

[glorydaz]

The disciples were told to go preach to the nations- to HEAL the sick, CLEANSE the lepers, RAISE THE DEAD, cast out demons.

Im sorry, were they told to heal EVERY one of them ?
Could so few men have healed EVERY sick person on earth ?
They were told to heal....so what ? That doesnt SAY that ALL WILL BE healed.

Follower, I've noticed that there are several scriptures that speak specifically of the signs of the Apostles, and the reason seems to be calling attention to the Lord. They reveal the power of the Christ. It's just like the early miracles that revealed the power of God...parting of the Red Sea, etc.

And by the hands of the apostles were many signs and wonders wrought among the people; (and they were all with one accord in Solomon's porch. And of the rest durst no man join himself to them: but the people magnified them. And believers were the more added to the Lord, multitudes both of men and women.) Insomuch that they brought forth the sick into the streets, and laid them on beds and couches, that at the least the shadow of Peter passing by might overshadow some of them. There came also a multitude out of the cities round about unto Jerusalem, bringing sick folks, and them which were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed every one.

I believe God still performs miracles, but He always has a purpose, and that's to reveal His glory.
The early church was an age of miracles....to draw attention to Jesus and His coming. We usually see that type of miracle today when churches as being planted in some far-reaching country...for the same purpose...drawing attention to the Lord's power. He isn't our lap dog, and sometimes I feel like He's being treated like one.

 

[DarcyLu]

I believe God still performs miracles, but He always has a purpose, and that's to reveal His glory.
The early church was an age of miracles....to draw attention to Jesus and His coming. We usually see that type of miracle today when churches as being planted in some far-reaching country...for the same purpose...drawing attention to the Lord's power. He isn't our lap dog, and sometimes I feel like He's being treated like one.

I hope no one minds me jumping in on this thread and yes, I did read its entirety with great interest. I agree with your take glorydaz, as self centered as we humans can be, we will never, in all of God’s sovereignty control Him and it appears He is being treated like a “treat boxâ€. Depending on the meter o’ faith level we individually possess, then that will determine God’s actions (or not).
God very much performs miracles today and heals, there is not much argument in that sense, yet this thread has even went the way of the entire curse being taken from us in this life. According to some posters, we do not even have to work for our food anymore, a farmer or not, we still all do work unless the person is on welfare and then everyone else works for your food. It’s a poor argument as we can all see most people actually do work for their food.
This is a dangerous heresy and I pray no one stumbles from this faith healing teaching.
In His Service

 

[follower of Christ]

God very much performs miracles today and heals

A couple years ago the wife and I still lived upstate NY and I had done something to my back. The pain was....well it was constant, not throbbing, but just one consistent sword in my spine wont stop hurting I think Im going to kill myself sort of miserable pain that, well I dont want to ever have again. It felt like I had literally damaged something, but we dont have insurance so....

12 days or so into the pain I was begining to get a bit out of sorts. Sitting, standing, lying down, it didnt matter and no amount of pain medication even touched it.

I get up one night about 3 am (pretending like I might be able to sleep) and walk into the restroom. I think Im losing my flipping mind at this point...the pain is just so unbearable, why wont it go away.
So I finish up and head back to the bedroom, get ready to get in bed for another 5 hours of uninterrupted misery and I notice the pain is gone.
I mean gone. Not stifled some but entirely and utterly GONE.

I remember saying 'Huh...' and feeling around, twisting my back some to see what was up.

My sleeping wife says 'what' in a curious tone.
I said its gone...the pain is just gone, just like that. I cant feel a thing now.
All the time I thought my wife had been laying there asleep she had actually woke up and prayed for healing for me.

I wasnt bleeding from the ears, no hemorrhaging or anything, no heart attack or kidney failure, but I did have the most aweful pain Ive felt since the big AIP attack of 2001.
And after nearly 2 whole weeks of living in hell, one simple little plea from my wife to our God ended in a second. Just gone....just like that.

I was telling this story on another forum elsewhere and a dear sister whose husband had been in similar pain for 5 YEARS was in a thread there. She asked why God would deliver me from my pain, but would leaver her husband in his own. What do you say when thats the case ? kwim ?
So I told her that the wife and I would stand and pray for her husband that evening, which we did.
The next day she came back on and told us how her husbands pain had gone and he finally got a good nights sleep after YEARS of dealing with the pain he had.

My wife is a wonderfully amazing, innocent woman and I believe that God answered her prayer for healing in both our cases, not because He is required because of the work at the cross, but simply because my wife asked in sincerity and at THAT time it glorified Him to heal the two of husbands.

Healing should glorify our God...it should not be that we think He owes' us anything.

.

 

[DarcyLu]

What a wonderful testimony of how God does heal today! Praise God for His great mercies.

Agreed wholeheartedly Follower, it is for His glory people are healed. Besides healing, I know God fixes other broken things, there are testimonies of people having their cars miracously fixed, fuel lasting longer than usual when money was low, items given to people in their time of need - at the perfect time and so many other wonderful testimonies of our great Father (I a recipient many times)- and ALL for His glory!

We can glorify God - but not glorify ourselves in that how much faith we do have or don't have.

In His Service -

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

If God did a work, and said He did a work, then it is a matter of it being His will to have done that work and to give it. Not a matter of Him just " owing it". Now the word of God says that we were healed. and I did not say ALL will be healed- because healing is based on FAITH in HIS promises and work. However His healing was provided for all who will believe him.- What is provided for and freely given to those who believe is not the same as saying all will be( indeed ALL do not have faith).

Same with salvation. WHOSOEVER believes shall be saved, He has PROVIDED and PROMISED salvation to all who will believe and repent but will ALL meet His requirement to believe so they recieve what He provided and promised? Of course not.

Now as far as what paul told Timothy, to assume that because paul said one sentence to timothy about wine for his stomach means paul never talked to timothy about faith or healing is a far stretch. We do not know what paul and timothy spoke about, we do not know what paul knew timothy believed or didnt etc... To assume so much either way into ONE SENTENCE in all of scripture while discounting all the people who were healed by faith and the promises of healing and deliverance and provision given to us by God is unbalanced. The amount of information that we are lacking about timothy and paul in this situation is complete.

As far as poison is concerned I believe if a person was forced or brought to drink poison and they believed God that truly they would not be hurt. I have actually had to deal with poison and had to walk in faith that God would not let any harm come to me by it and He is faithful and I was unharmed.

So this is my next question: by your doctrine that it may or may not be Gods will to heal them(assuming they are a believer) should that person just sit around and say well maybe it is or maybe it isnt or should they run after God by faith and fill themselves with His word on His healing powers aso that their faith full be built up and should they stand in faith and grab His garment non stop unless He tells them " sorry not by will to heal ya"?

 

[follower of Christ]

If God did a work, and said He did a work,

And that work was for the salvation of man.
It was NO promise of healing of EVERY person.

Now the word of God says that we were healed.

Believers are healed spiritually by reconciliation to the Creator.
They ARENT all healed physically....clearly

and I did not say ALL will be healed- because healing is based on FAITH in HIS promises and work.

Have you drank any deadly thing yet, poster....or is it just OUR faith that you draw to question ?

 

[follower of Christ]

However His healing was provided for all who will believe him.-

Spiritual healing thru reconcilation, yes.
Physical healing for all, no.

What is provided for and freely given to those who believe is not the same as saying all will be( indeed ALL do not have faith).

Drank any poisons yet, friend ?
You should be able to without worry based on your views

Same with salvation. WHOSOEVER believes shall be saved, He has PROVIDED and PROMISED salvation to all who will believe and repent but will ALL meet His requirement to believe so they recieve what He provided and promised? Of course not.

The scripture SHOWS CLEARLY that anyone who believes will be saved.
It does NOT show that all who believe will be HEALED of all their illnesses.

 

[DarcyLu]

So this is my next question: by your doctrine that it may or may not be Gods will to heal them(assuming they are a believer) should that person just sit around and say well maybe it is or maybe it isnt or should they run after God by faith and fill themselves with His word on His healing powers aso that their faith full be built up and should they stand in faith and grab His garment non stop unless He tells them " sorry not by will to heal ya"?

By THE TRUE doctrine God tells us in James that if we ask, do not have doubts unless you will be found in double mindeness, so that is how we should approach God. I don't ask him - if your will be done as He and I both know His will WILL be done regardless, I don't say please - I say "heal" sometimes His answer is No, remember the Garden of Gethsamene, Jesus said, can this cup be taken from me - not MY will but YOUR will - and the answer was NO, God did not take the cup from Jesus, Jesus was to suffer.

In the same, we can take Stephen, which is not documented but do you think he would have asked God to take him out of that situation - I realize this is assuming some things - but yet again God did not take him out and he was killed. In history goes on and on. Now a person who is a faith healer can pray for his failing body, yet he still dies. Do you know of a faith healer who is of an incredible age - say 150 years old? Death is the curse - we overcome death in Christ.

You are taking "by his stripes you are healed" out of context, it does not mean that God HAS to heal anyone, even in faith. God is way more concerned about our spiritual well-being than our physical well being. He has promised that we all have what we need spiritually and because of His great grace, we are given things for our flesh. The passage is talking about salvation - NOT physical healing.

 

[follower of Christ]

Now as far as what paul told Timothy, to assume that because paul said one sentence to timothy about wine for his stomach means paul never talked to timothy about faith or healing is a far stretch.

What a DODGE ! ;)
Timothy was a BELIEVER who was BORN AGAIN...IF your fallacy were true then Paul should have told Tim that he was healed at the cross....but *IF* that nonsense WERE true, Tim would have NEVER been sick to begin with ;)

We do not know what paul and timothy spoke about, we do not know what paul knew timothy believed or didnt etc... To assume so much either way into ONE SENTENCE in all of scripture while discounting all the people who were healed by faith and the promises of healing and deliverance and provision given to us by God is unbalanced. The amount of information that we are lacking about timothy and paul in this situation is complete.

We KNOW that Paul told Timothy to use WINE for his ailment...NOT faith.
Stop deflecting with this distraction and nonsense and just accept the FACTs

As far as poison is concerned I believe if a person was forced or brought to drink poison and they believed God that truly they would not be hurt.

Ah....so its CONDITIONAL....thanks for admitting this FACT ! ;)
As ALL healing is conditional..it is contingent on Gods WILL TO heal.

I have actually had to deal with poison and had to walk in faith that God would not let any harm come to me by it and He is faithful and I was unharmed.

*IF* it suited His purpose.

 

[follower of Christ]

So this is my next question: by your doctrine that it may or may not be Gods will to heal them(assuming they are a believer) should that person just sit around and say well maybe it is or maybe it isnt or should they run after God by faith and fill themselves with His word on His healing powers aso that their faith full be built up and should they stand in faith and grab His garment non stop unless He tells them " sorry not by will to heal ya"?

what a person should do is pray for healing and ACCEPT it if they arent...not twist and pervert Gods word into something that it isnt and endanger OTHER believers faith with this godless fallacy that says THEY have fallen short of they arent healed.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

It is not true that if we were healed, we would not get sick. We all have trials of faith and while we can get sick, we do not need stay that way.

Now James says if any is sick let him go to the elders and they shall pray and annoint with oil and they SHALL recover. It does not say let him go ask God and he might recover, or he may recieve a " no"(there is no example in scripture of a no i will never heal you to a believer")

Ok so lets look at another verse and i have a ? with this one also.Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

So if we are to ask in Faith- Nothing doubting, and believe that we recieve it- THEN we shall have it, HOW can we walk in this form of faith with NO doubt and believe we have recieved it- IF we cannot know it is Gods will for US?


- As far as is 53 being only about spiritual healing and not physical, that is not what Jesus shows in matt 8 when he physically healed people and said it was because he fulfills is 53 that said he bore our sicknesses.

- Also if it is true that our spiritual healing is all that is really important to God, and not also our physical healing then why does God speak so many times all through the word about physical healing? Why did he always make it a part of His covenants, why did so many trust him for healing when they had no word spoken only to them saying it is Gods will for you?


As far as Jesus in the garden and stephen those are two cases of persecution which we are NOT released from but instead we are promised that we WILL have persecution for his name. Persecution was not paid for at the cross, but salvation, sins, sickness, the curse were.



as far as poison follower i answered that in my last post^

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

what a person should do is pray for healing and ACCEPT it if they arent...not twist and pervert Gods word into something that it isnt and endanger OTHER believers faith with this godless fallacy that says THEY have fallen short of they arent healed.

How can you walk in faith for something you have not yet seen and at the same time accept to not be healed if you havent seen it yet? Walking by faith for it means, you believe you have already recieved healing even though you have not yet seen or felt it. If you pray for healing and then accept you arent healed, then you did not pray in faith or wait on the Lord in faith, arent standing or walking in faith and waiting on him to manifest it. Faith is not sight. IF the Lord would use such a situation for a trial of faith like james and peter speaks about, and we ask and then walk by sight and say well it hasnt happened that i can see so he said no, then we cannot even have a trial of faith because he have left off faith at the first.

 

[follower of Christ]

It is not true that if we were healed, we would not get sick.

of course you have to say this because you KNOW people get sick.
It is not logical to be HEALED at the cross and GET sick, poster...but that would expose your fallacy for what it is, now wouldnt it ? ;)