By His Stripes we are Healed !

[toddm]

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Of course it is still in effect for you, LOL its only removed when you BELIEVE Jesus took it away.

[quote="follower of Christ":1j1o31gm]
Oh please, gent....youre arguments are becoming VERY ridiculous.
We ALL know here that YOU eat the 'herb of the field'....you arent eating from the Garden of Eden.

This is going beyond absurd here.

Let me then refraze it so you would feel more comfortable

Of course it is still in effect for you, LOL its only removed when you DO NOT BELIEVE Jesus took it away.

There, now you have both sides. You may choose one. [/quote:1j1o31gm]
I'm sorry, but this kind of reasoning is absurd, at best. This implies that we have enough faith to be saved from God's wrath, but not enough faith to be saved from a disease. I know of many very godly people who have suffered and died from sickness. Are you going to tell me that the only reason they suffered and died was because they did not have enough faith?? Think about the implications of your answer and choose your words carefully.

 

[Cornelius]

I'm sorry, but this kind of reasoning is absurd, at best. This implies that we have enough faith to be saved from God's wrath, but not enough faith to be saved from a disease. I know of many very godly people who have suffered and died from sickness. Are you going to tell me that the only reason they suffered and died was because they did not have enough faith?? Think about the implications of your answer and choose your words carefully.

Do you think that faith can fail ? If so: do you have faith that you are saved? Is that faith enough then? Think carefully about the implications of your answer and choose your words carefully.

 

[follower of Christ]

Do you think that faith can fail ? If so: do you have faith that you are saved?

Fallible, finite mans faith ?
Are you claiming otherwise ?
Shall we talk about falling away now, C ?
I can show you VERY clear scripture that shows that man CAN fall away....so what does this say about his faith ?

Think carefully about the implications of your answer and choose your words carefully.

Maybe you should take your own advice...

 

[Cornelius]

Do you think that faith can fail ? If so: do you have faith that you are saved?

Fallible, finite mans faith ?
Are you claiming otherwise ?
Shall we talk about falling away now, C ?
I can show you VERY clear scripture that shows that man CAN fall away....so what does this say about his faith ?

Think carefully about the implications of your answer and choose your words carefully.

Maybe you should take your own advice...

We obviously have a different view of faith. I view faith as .....well, faith To say you had faith and it did not work, is like saying electricity do not work because I could not find the switch. Faith works every time. ALL the time. Real faith never fails.

Who fails.......WE fail.

We are so use to making God guilty for our failures. We say : "I had faith, but it was not God's will" LOL that is so silly. Why would God ask faith from us, if faith is not the answer. Once His Word shows us a promise , we will either have faith in the truth of it, or we will fall short. We are so scared to admit that it is indeed possible for us to be double minded. But its human. In truth, I know very few people who are always in faith. I am talking about real faith (believing God ) I am not talking about believing IN God. That is not the faith that gets things done in the Kingdom.

 

[follower of Christ]

We obviously have a different view of faith.

Obviously our differences go far deeper than just what faith is.

I view faith as .....well, faith To say you had faith and it did not work, is like saying electricity do not work because I could not find the switch. Faith works every time. ALL the time. Real faith never fails.

Now add in a switch there that controls the whole thing and youre a bit closer ;)
The electricity is there, but GOD is the Master Switch that controls what it does
Conveniently you tried to remove that part ;)

Who fails.......WE fail.

No offense, but if this were my forum youd be out of here. Sorry but you are putting peoples faith at risk here with this tripe making them believe if they arent healed then its BECAUSE THEY FAILED God.
The forum owners here need to start taking this VERY seriously

 

[Cornelius]

Fallible, finite mans faith ?
Are you claiming otherwise ?

Correct,I am not claiming otherwise ! ..... so do not call doubt faith ! We can start out in faith and end up in failure. So please then do not blame God . Lets place the blame where it is due. At our OWN door. We fail at faith !

Too many times we hear "They were good Christian people who had faith and then this happened" We say it like we know their hearts, like we have the ability to look into people and know them, like God knows them.We do not. If they were double minded, the Bible says they will not receive anything.

 

[follower of Christ]

Correct,I am not claiming otherwise ! ..... so do not call doubt faith ! We can start out in faith and end up in failure. So please then do not blame God . Lets place the blame where it is due. At our OWN door. We fail at faith !

Of course WE fail....GOD, however does NOT.
And we do not get left to the wayside as you sadly believe, simply because WE did not measure up at some given moment.
What a sad religion one must exist in where God just tosses them to the wayside when they fall short.

If they were double minded, the Bible says they will not receive anything.

And IN CONTEXT that is about WISDOM and believing so that we receive it.
It ISNT saying that if we ARENT healed that we DONT have enough faith.
Must you pervert the intent of EVERY word of Gods that you read ???

.

 

[Cornelius]

No offense, but if this were my forum youd be out of here. Sorry but you are putting peoples faith at risk here with this tripe making them believe if they arent healed then its BECAUSE THEY FAILED God.
The forum owners here need to start taking this VERY seriously

Then they must kick me out. I am in good company. Jesus continuously told His disciples that they had a problem with faith. It worked, because they got their act together in the end.

Peter sank into the water . He did not swim to the shore and shout : "But I had faith, I had faith. Its unfair for you to tell me otherwise, You are destroying my faith" Jesus would have said " What faith? You sank ! If you had faith, you would have kept on walking on the water !"

You cannot destroy something that is not yet there. And please do not tell me that believing IN God is your faith, because that is not what I am talking about. I am talking about believing God. There is a difference.

Real faith grows. It gets tested. God puts us in trials so it can grow. Until it is proven to be real, then its not the real thing yet. We are suppose to learn about it. We are allowed to fail and get up. This nonsense that all Christians have this perfect faith is un-Biblical.


Jesus would really have irked you, because that was His famous line : Oh ye of little faith.

 

[Cornelius]

And IN CONTEXT that is about WISDOM and believing so that we receive it.


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Then I suggest you try being double minded regarding faith and see if you indeed will receive anything from God.

 

[follower of Christ]

Then they must kick me out.

The choice isnt mine to make.

I am in good company. Jesus continuously told His disciples that they had a problem with faith. It worked, because they got their act together in the end.

Dont even go there C...youre no martyr nor any prophet.
Youre simply a man caught up in a dangerous unscriptural doctrine that could easily damage someone elses faith in God.

Jesus would really have irked you, because that was His famous line : Oh ye of little faith.

No, because JESUS taught Gods truth...not heresies that could harm others walk with God.


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[follower of Christ]

Then I suggest you try being double minded regarding faith and see if you indeed will receive anything from God.

And I suggest that you actually let the scriptures SAY what they say without perverting the intent.
James says to BELIEVE in order to recieve wisdom....he does NOT say that if we arent healed then we didnt have faith.

.

 

[Cornelius]

Then they must kick me out.

The choice isnt mine to make.

I am in good company. Jesus continuously told His disciples that they had a problem with faith. It worked, because they got their act together in the end.

Dont even go there C...youre no martyr nor any prophet.
Youre simply a man caught up in a dangerous unscriptural doctrine that could easily damage someone elses faith in God.

[quote:14fclzvx]Jesus would really have irked you, because that was His famous line : Oh ye of little faith.

No, because JESUS taught Gods truth...not heresies that could harm others walk with God.


.[/quote:14fclzvx]

Its only unscriptural to those who do not believe it. For the rest of us, we walk in this, because it is real to us .

I refuse to add to the Word. If God says : By His stripes you were healed.......then by His stripes we were healed. If you or others do not like that approach, then stay the way you are. I have not been able to find ANY power in the gospel you preach and there is nothing in there for me. I have left that a long time ago. Now at least I get to see God work.

I believe like a child.

C

 

[follower of Christ]

Its only unscriptural to those who do not believe it.

So if I believe Im a duck then Im a duck and its scriptural

No, C, its 'scriptural' NOT because we believe it or not but ONLY because it lines up with and AGREES with the scriptures as a whole.

I refuse to add to the Word.

Then you might want to quit adding the idea that James says ANYTHING about not having faith if we arent healed

If God says : By His stripes you were healed.......then by His stripes we were healed.

Learn some context friend.

If you or others do not like that approach, then stay the way you are.

We will.
My hope is that none of the brethren here by into your nonsense fallacy and end up blaming themselves for failing God simply because they arent healed.
It may well be Gods WILL that they turn to medicine or simply are not healed physically in this lifetime.

Tell us, C...are you still eating the 'herb of the field' ?


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[Cornelius]

Tell us, C...are you still eating the 'herb of the field' ?


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Yes , it such a curse don't you think? All that pesto with the pasta !

I am going away for a day or two , so you can recover a bit.

 

[follower of Christ]

Tell us, C...are you still eating the 'herb of the field' ?


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Yes , it such a curse don't you think? All that pesto with the pasta !

What...not enough faith ? ;)

I am going away for a day or two , so you can recover a bit.

Have a safe trip

 

[toddm]

Do you think that faith can fail ? If so: do you have faith that you are saved?

Fallible, finite mans faith ?
Are you claiming otherwise ?
Shall we talk about falling away now, C ?
I can show you VERY clear scripture that shows that man CAN fall away....so what does this say about his faith ?

Think carefully about the implications of your answer and choose your words carefully.

Maybe you should take your own advice...

We obviously have a different view of faith. I view faith as .....well, faith To say you had faith and it did not work, is like saying electricity do not work because I could not find the switch. Faith works every time. ALL the time. Real faith never fails.

Who fails.......WE fail.

We are so use to making God guilty for our failures. We say : "I had faith, but it was not God's will" LOL that is so silly. Why would God ask faith from us, if faith is not the answer. Once His Word shows us a promise , we will either have faith in the truth of it, or we will fall short. We are so scared to admit that it is indeed possible for us to be double minded. But its human. In truth, I know very few people who are always in faith. I am talking about real faith (believing God ) I am not talking about believing IN God. That is not the faith that gets things done in the Kingdom.

And there it is...the "faith-o-meter" that says we have to have a certain level of faith or else God is helpless. Jesus says that if we have as much faith as a tiny mustard seed then that's all we need, but you and others tend to paint God as if His hands are tied until the "faith-o-meter" hits that certain point. As if God is obligated to act based on our faith or lack thereof. That's a pretty messed up picture of God when the godly woman who just died from a long painful bought w/ cancer gets to heaven and God says, "Man! You were almost there in your faith, but it just wasn't quite enough!" :bigfrown

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

You would like a scripture that says that all believers will be healed. I will give you one better, Here is the scripture that says we already WERE healed.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

As far as the " herb of the field" the curse was not that we would eat the herb of the field, God made it clear in gen 1 that we were given the herb of the field to eat- the curse was that we would eat the herb of the field by the sweat of our brow having to toil in the earth for our food.gen 3:18-19

But Jesus made it clear to His believers that we arent to live that way, because that is how the gentiles live. We are not to worry for our food matt 6.


This is my question: Why are some so concerned that people may loose their faith if they were to believe that they could believe God to heal them, but the same people are not concerned that all of their preaching against having faith in God to heal them may destroy the faith of people who live to walk in faith of God for all things?

Why is it that we in this day think ourselves so wonderful that no one dare question if we have a lack of faith ever? As if we all think we have perfect faith all the time? People are offended if we say that our healing depends on our faith in Gods promises, and they would be equally offended at Jesus who old His own apostles more than once " O ye of Little Faith". People want so badly to make a believer being under the curse the will of God inspite of the fact that Jesus said He bore the curse, that He healed us by His stripes, that he bore our sickness.

People want to divorce faith from healing or from recieving any of the promises of God even though that almost every testimony of Jesus healing people he said things like " your faith has made thee whole, "

It is true that with the faith of a mustard seed we can move a mountian, that does not mean the faith of a mustard seed is easy to have because what is not being considered is that we are also told if ye believe and DOUBT NOT YE SHALL HAVE IT. We are likewise told by James that we need to ask in faith NOTHING WAVERING HE WHO WAVERS IS A DOUBLE MINDED MAN LET NOT THAT MAN THINK HE SHALL RECIEVE ANYTHING OF GOD.

We all accept that our salvation is by faith but when it comes to healing people want to ignore faith.

 

[follower of Christ]

You would like a scripture that says that all believers will be healed. I will give you one better, Here is the scripture that says we already WERE healed.

1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Huh....so where is my healing G ?
I still have this genetic disease...so apparently YOU are missing something

As far as the " herb of the field" the curse was not that we would eat the herb of the field, God made it clear in gen 1 that we were given the herb of the field to eat- the curse was that we would eat the herb of the field by the sweat of our brow having to toil in the earth for our food.gen 3:18-19

Im sorry...what verse in Genesis 1 is that again ?
man was in the garden at that point....what bible are YOU reading, friend....

 

[follower of Christ]

This is my question: Why are some so concerned that people may loose their faith if they were to believe that they could believe God to heal them, but the same people are not concerned that all of their preaching against having faith in God to heal them may destroy the faith of people who live to walk in faith of God for all things?

IF you actuallly believed the TRUTH THEN you might understand the concern. Seeing that youre caught up in this unscriptural doctrine, of course you dont see the danger it presents.

Why is it that we in this day think ourselves so wonderful that no one dare question if we have a lack of faith ever?

When your false doctrine causes our brethren to blame THEMSELVES for failing God when HE CHOSE not to heal them that IS a PROBLEM !

 

[follower of Christ]

that He healed us by His stripes, that he bore our sickness.

Scripture DOES NOT TEACH that ALL will be healed...and history CONFIRMS that not all will.

People want to divorce faith from healing or from recieving any of the promises of God even though that almost every testimony of Jesus healing people he said things like " your faith has made thee whole, "

No one is divorcing anything here, poster...we are DEMANDING that YOU PROVE your doctrinal views rather than giving us all this hogwash.

It is true that with the faith of a mustard seed we can move a mountian,

Move any mountains lately ? ;)
Didnt think so

that does not mean the faith of a mustard seed is easy to have because what is not being considered is that we are also told if ye believe and DOUBT NOT YE SHALL HAVE IT. We are likewise told by James that we need to ask in faith NOTHING WAVERING HE WHO WAVERS IS A DOUBLE MINDED MAN LET NOT THAT MAN THINK HE SHALL RECIEVE ANYTHING OF GOD.

AGAIN that James passage IS ABOUT WISDOM ! Not about EVERYONE being healed !
Must you continue to ADD your error INTO every passage you present ?
NO SCRIPTURE EVER SHOWS THAT ALL believers WILL be healed !

If ONE did, then we'd be listening...but they DONT

We all accept that our salvation is by faith but when it comes to healing people want to ignore faith.

And scripture SAYS PLAINLY that salvation comes by faith and also that all who believe will be saved.

obtaining for yourselves the outcome your faith--the salvation of your souls.
(1 Peter 1:9 EMTV)

He that believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he that does not believe shall be condemned.
(Mark 16:16 EMTV)

But it DOESNT SAY that ALL will be healed physically....sorry