By His Stripes we are Healed !

[follower of Christ]

How can you walk in faith for something you have not yet seen and at the same time accept to not be healed if you havent seen it yet?
Walking by faith for it means, you believe you have already recieved healing even though you have not yet seen or felt it. If you pray for healing and then accept you arent healed, then you did not pray in faith or wait on the Lord in faith, arent standing or walking in faith and waiting on him to manifest it. Faith is not sight. IF the Lord would use such a situation for a trial of faith like james and peter speaks about, and we ask and then walk by sight and say well it hasnt happened that i can see so he said no, then we cannot even have a trial of faith because he have left off faith at the first.

round and round and round....youre making me dizzy, friend.

SHOW US where it SAYS that all WILL be healed or just admit that it DOESNT

/

 

[follower of Christ]

Now James says if any is sick let him go to the elders and they shall pray and annoint with oil and they SHALL recover.

Thats really nice....did you spend a lot of time digging that ONE small verse up ?
Do you really want to play this game of focusing on ONE verse intently, because thats a game Ive gotten pretty good at....taking ONE verse and making it absolute to show you just how ridiculous your logic actually is.
ONE verse..ONE word...doesnt define the WHOLE...the WHOLE tells us how to interpret the ONE word or ONE verse.

This is ONE verse that tells us how to pray for the sick. What it DOESNT say is ALL WILL be HEALED !

 

[follower of Christ]

Ok so lets look at another verse and i have a ? with this one also.Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Cast any mountains into the sea, poster ?
This was actually one of the verses I would have used to bury your aburd logic with ;)
NO...you HAVENT cast any mountains into the sea and YOU WONT.
And its NOT because you dont have faith.

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

Really ?
Want to see something apparently missed or chose to ignore ?

You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend it in gratifying your lusts.
(James 4:3 EMTV)

That just destroys your entire fallacy....GOD determines if we get what we ask for... :yes

 

[follower of Christ]

So if we are to ask in Faith- Nothing doubting, and believe that we recieve it- THEN we shall have it,

Wrong.
Nothing but non-sequitur, out of context nonsense
NO scripture shows that ALL will be healed and again Timothy was NOT told to have faith, but was told to use a little wine....ie a medicinal remedy, NOT a healing.

- As far as is 53 being only about spiritual healing and not physical, that is not what Jesus shows in matt 8 when he physically healed people and said it was because he fulfills is 53 that said he bore our sicknesses.

HE was the Messiah. HIS healings were PART of prophecy and part of HIS ministry !
That does NOT MEAN that ALL WILL be healed physically, friend...that is YOUR addition !

 

[follower of Christ]

- Also if it is true that our spiritual healing is all that is really important to God, and not also our physical healing then why does God speak so many times all through the word about physical healing?
Why did he always make it a part of His covenants, why did so many trust him for healing when they had no word spoken only to them saying it is Gods will for you?

Im not going to try to answer questions for you that Gods word doesnt give a clear answer to.
I know how this goes. You ask a question to try to lead me down the trail to your predetermined conclusion...NOT interested. Stick to the FACTS please.
The FACTS are that scripture as a whole does NOT teach that ALL WILL be healed. Healing comes from God and HE decides who is healed and who isnt.

as far as poison follower i answered that in my last post^

No, you skirted the issue entirely.
YOUR faith is contingent on YOUR ability to drink poison and not be harmed. You dont get to pick and choose what parts are true or not, friend.
You have NO business putting OUR faith to question when you apparently arent brave enough to test YOUR OWN !

 

[DarcyLu]

It is not true that if we were healed, we would not get sick. We all have trials of faith and while we can get sick, we do not need stay that way.

"Dear friends, do not be surprised at the painful trial you are suffering, as though something strange were happening to you. But rejoice that you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed" (1 Peter 4:12-13).
The usage of this word is refering to a burning a refining, we are to be refined and only He knows what is best for our refinement - sometimes it is an illness or a diseases. He uses these trials to help us get to our goal, which would be to manifest Christ, only He knows the best way to get us there and it is ALL for His glory - not ours.

"The LORD said to him, 'Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD?'" (Exodus 4:11) This is God's will! He has used many people in their afflictions (diseases included) to glorify Himself, He uses it all!

"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:28). Now does this mean all things except disease, or does it really mean all things?

"My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness" (2 Corinthians 12:9). Who are we to say, "God heal me!" when He chooses not to? We do not know if our diseases will help us to manifest Christ and according to Romans 8:28, He will use ALL things.

Ok so lets look at another verse and i have a ? with this one also.Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Are using this scripture as literally or metaphorically? Sometimes it's hard to tell how a faith healing teacher uses this passage? Do you mean a real mountain? Or a "mountain" in your life because yes, God has moved mountains in my life - but I have never been able to move a real one - and it's not because I lack faith.
And you?

- Also if it is true that our spiritual healing is all that is really important to God, and not also our physical healing then why does God speak so many times all through the word about physical healing? Why did he always make it a part of His covenants, why did so many trust him for healing when they had no word spoken only to them saying it is Gods will for you?

Clearly, God is more concerned with our souls than our bodies. "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell" (Matthew 10:28). Scripture does not teach that God desires our happiness. What He desires from us is to manifest His Son! All suffering can bring us benefit.

In His Service

 

[JoJo]

What He desires from us is to manifest His Son! All suffering can bring us benefit.

:amen

 

[Cornelius]

What He desires from us is to manifest His Son! All suffering can bring us benefit.

:amen

So you want to manifest a sickly Son to the world.

 

[Cornelius]

What He desires from us is to manifest His Son! All suffering can bring us benefit.

:amen

So you want to manifest a sickly Son to the world.

I prefer to look at the sickness as something that prevent me from manifesting the Son. Once I tackle the sickness with the Word and overcome it, then Jesus's power indeed IS manifested in me.

Manifestation of Christ , is when we manifest the Word , which IS Christ. :yes

 

[Cornelius]

If God did a work, and said He did a work,

And that work was for the salvation of man.
It was NO promise of healing of EVERY person.

Amen, only those who believe the promise.

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 they shall take up serpents, and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.


Let look at the word Salvation again in the Greek:G4991
???????
s?t?ria
so-tay-ree'-ah
Feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally): - deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

So we see that health is indeed included in our salvation.

 

[follower of Christ]

Amen, only those who believe the promise.

Sorry gent....after another 8000 times of repeating ourselves, there is NO promise given by CHRIST that ALL will be healed physically

Mar 16:17 And these signs shall accompany them that believe: in my name shall they cast out demons;

Cast out any REAL demons lately, C ?

they shall speak with new tongues;

Lemme guess...youre one of THOSE...

Mar 16:18 they shall take up serpents,

Played with any poisonous snakes C ? If not, why not ? Isnt your faith what it should be ? Dont you....BELIEVE ? ;)

and if they drink any deadly thing,

Tell ya what...when you PROVE your faith to us by drinking a large bottle of Draino and suffer no ill effects...you come right on back and tell us about it. Till then dont bother questoining OUR faith because you demand a sign ;)

And even then this passage ONLY speaks about signs that would accompany his followers. It does NOT say that ALL WILL be healed, faith or no... ;)

it shall in no wise hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Yep...this sign would be present in those who believe...and it was and has been ;)
Doesnt say ALL WILL be healed, however...that is YOUR insertion

 

[follower of Christ]

Let look at the word Salvation again in the Greek:G4991
???????
s?t?ria
so-tay-ree'-ah
Feminine of a derivative of G4990 as (properly abstract) noun; rescue or safety (physically or morally): - deliver, health, salvation, save, saving.

So we see that health is indeed included in our salvation.

Boy you REALLY dont understand a thing about translation and rendering, do you ?

ANY given word in one language can have a NUMBER of possible words it can be RENDERED AS in another language. NOT ALL NECESSARILY APPLY in any given instance of the word !
And this word MEANS 'rescue or safety'...that is it primary intent. I CAN mean physically...it doesnt HAVE TO mean physically in EVERY instance the word is used.
That list of words is POSSIBLE renderings that CAN be used BASED ON CONTEXT....ie HOW the word is USED and what the specific INTENT is in THIS particular case.

In ONE passage the word may mean 'salvation' as that is the intent in THAT particular statement.
In ANOTHER it may take on health...

I think this particular shortcoming on your part, C, is probably where a lot of your misunderstanding of scripture is coming from.

.

 

[DarcyLu]

What He desires from us is to manifest His Son! All suffering can bring us benefit.

:amen

So you want to manifest a sickly Son to the world.

Oh, but I doubt anyone of us is manifesting Him 100% completely to perfection right now, are we?

The Fruit's attributes are.......

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 meekness, self-control

notice the longsuffering

These are spiritual attributes, they are not concerned with the physical, God uses physical ailments to help us manifest Christ - we're all getting there, we are not there yet.

 

[DarcyLu]

So you want to manifest a sickly Son to the world.

I prefer to look at the sickness as something that prevent me from manifesting the Son. Once I tackle the sickness with the Word and overcome it, then Jesus's power indeed IS manifested in me.

Manifestation of Christ , is when we manifest the Word , which IS Christ. :yes

Why would you believe becoming sick or having an ailment would prevent you from manifesting Christ? Do you believe a person in a wheel chair can not manifest Christ?

It seems a couple of posters here are more concerned about receiving His power, seeing signs and wonders than His other attributes - which are the Fruit of His Spirit - what about love? A person in a wheel chair can not perfectly love others? Love is the greatest.

It is only in the wheel chair person's healing that he can manifest Christ? If so, where does the Word say it?

 

[follower of Christ]

Why would you believe becoming sick or having an ailment would prevent you from manifesting Christ? Do you believe a person in a wheel chair can not manifest Christ?

Very good question.
The hilarious thing is that my disease created some very odd situations in 2001 that had a number of brethren praising God and helped to bring my step father closer to God.
Ive never been healed and I wont be. I'll gladly endure this disease every day for the rest of my life knowing that at one point in my life it was used to glorify God.
It would be pretty selfish of me to feel otherwise.

*IF* I had listened to these types of brethren, Id have been praying for the disease to be taken from me...what happened thru the disease wouldnt have happened.
Id not change a thing.
This disease was used directly to even bring me and my wife together. If Id never had it, we would not have met at all.
Sorry C.....Ill KEEP the illness, friend. You can have your signs and wonders...and all of your 'promises' that Jesus didnt make.

It seems a couple of posters here are more concerned about receiving His power, seeing signs and wonders than His other attributes - which are the Fruit of His Spirit - what about love? A person in a wheel chair can not perfectly love others? Love is the greatest.

Its the same with the tongues pushers. They dont say they need to see a sign, theyd never admit that is the real issue....but it is.

 

[jasoncran]

while do believe in modern miracles and toungues, but not all have the same gift and are healed from sickness. our flesh dies daily, and out inner man grows daily, the latter is far more important.

for what good is it to enter into hell healthy. i have learned much from those that have suffered from cancer and other ailments, even from the ones that have went on to be with the lord.

 

[DarcyLu]

Why would you believe becoming sick or having an ailment would prevent you from manifesting Christ? Do you believe a person in a wheel chair can not manifest Christ?

Very good question.
The hilarious thing is that my disease created some very odd situations in 2001 that had a number of brethren praising God and helped to bring my step father closer to God.
Ive never been healed and I wont be. I'll gladly endure this disease every day for the rest of my life knowing that at one point in my life it was used to glorify God.
It would be pretty selfish of me to feel otherwise.

I do know what you mean, Romans 8 - God does work ALL things out for good to those who love Him. I have similar testimonies with family members, how God used our ailments and illnesses to grow our faith, to become more Christ like.....it is what it's all about. He is coming in us!

When the perfect comes, we will all have glorified bodies. :yes
In His Service

 

[follower of Christ]

for what good is it to enter into hell healthy. i have learned much from those that have suffered from cancer and other ailments, even from the ones that have went on to be with the lord.

We had a woman who died from brain cancer a few years ago at my old job.
She was a wonderful person, but she was so caught up in this Benny Hinn healing nonsense that she devoted all her time and energy to 'faith' healing rather than to her husband and God and being ready for whatever GOD had in mind for her.

In the end she finally came to the truth and finally to peace in her heart, God bless her.
But the damage done to her husband was exactly opposite of what she had been wanting to do.
She wanted so badly for her husband to see God thru it all, but all he got to see was her blowing thousands of dollars they didnt have to spend on the Benny Hinn garbage....'having faith' in her healing...and every day was taking her closer to death.

For a couple years her husband got to see her 'faith' to be healed shattered bit by bit....the man had to have believed that God probably didnt even exist because of everything that was going on.
Had she simply asked for healing, but peacefully accepted what Gods plan might be, her husband may have been able to see that strength in her and wonder how she could have it even in the face of death....THAT may have sparked something inside him.

Im so glad that in the very end she did finally come to the truth...it helped some. But I dont know if the damage done to her husband will be undone anytime soon or not.

.

 

[jasoncran]

i have seen healings and been healed of something myself by a pentacostal pastor/evangalist. but even that chrurch preaches that not all will get healed and god may have other plans.

i have no love for mr.hinn

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

follower saying that if we were healed at the cross, we could not get sick at all now, is like saying if we were saved at the cross we could not be lost know and we know that is not so. The word of God is clear that people who had recieved from God their salvation and being freed from sin and the world can return like a dog to their own vomit and go back from their salvation.- why? because it is by faith!

We stand in our salvation BY FAITH and what do we trust for our salvation? The blood of Christ on the cross and His burial and resurrection!

Now we were saved at the cross, but were we saved the moment before we believed on Him or did we become saved at the cross the moment we believed?

Healing is no differnt, we were healed with His stripes- He did bare our sicknesses then, He was wounded for our transgressions then, the chastement of our peace was upon him then and when we believe those things by faith NOW we will recieve them .



darcy- i do believe that God can use these things and many sufferings in this area for our good- however just because something is used for a time for our good, does not mean it is Gods will that we remain in it when He has promised us release from it by faith. To say that God is not concerned with our physical state is not true. It is not one or the other spiritual or physical- it is both and many times throughout the word God connects the physical healings and provisions of the body with spiritual forgiveness and salvation. They are very much connected and both very much important to God.It does not glorify God to have His people sick and crippled.While it does glorify God when his people find him woth believing and he makes them whole.Even if they did have to endure a trial of faith before seeing the manifestation of the promise.Many people say things like " we ask God, sometimes he says no" but that is not an example we have in scripture on healing or salvation or forgiveness if we have met his requirements.
Mat 8:16 ¶ When the even was come, they brought unto him many that were possessed with devils: and he cast out the spirits with [his] word, and healed all that were sick:


Mat 8:17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, Himself took our infirmities, and bare [our] sicknesses.

As far as is 53, we are confirmed in matt that indeed it is also about physical healing.