By His Stripes we are Healed !

[jasoncran]

before the apostle john died he was carried on a bed to wherever he would preach according to tradition, i guess his faith was weak since he died.

 

[follower of Christ]

before the apostle john died he was carried on a bed to wherever he would preach according to tradition, i guess his faith was weak since he died.

This healing doctrine nonsense is pretty humorous seeing that death is caused by a breakdown of our body/organs...just as illness or injury causes.
If my liver is damaged because of my disease or a car wreck, well I guess 'faith' should cure it.
But if Im 95 years old and my liver stops functioning...I guess my faith must have failed


.

 

[jasoncran]

before the apostle john died he was carried on a bed to wherever he would preach according to tradition, i guess his faith was weak since he died.

This healing doctrine nonsense is pretty humorous seeing that death is caused by a breakdown of our body/organs...just as illness or injury causes.
If my liver is damaged because of my disease or a car wreck, well I guess 'faith' should cure it.
But if Im 95 years old and my liver stops functioning...I guess my faith must have failed


.

i thought you would like that.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Gen 1:29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.


as far as your healing it is In Christ Jesus promised to you because you believe in Him. I pray that the Lord will fill you with all understanding and that the scriptures on Gods faithfulness to heal His people will renew your mind and heart to the mind of Christ so that you may have all faith by hearing the word of God on this matter and recieve the healing promised to all those who will believe and not doubt.

 

[follower of Christ]

Gen 1:29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Im sorry, that says we can EAT it...that doesnt say we will have to work the ground for it !
Not even a good try, friend...

(Edited to add)

IN the garden Adam ate the food OF the garden.
It wasnt just the 'herb of the FIELD' that came with the curse where Adam had to work the ground to produce it.When cast from the garden Adam NOW had to WORK for providing his food...which WE STILL do TODAY !

And thou shall eat the herb of the field;
not the fruits of the garden of Eden, but only the common herbs of the field, such as even the beasts of the earth fed upon: to such a low condition was man, the lord of the whole earth, reduced unto by sin; and this was according to the law of retaliation, that man, who could not be content with all the fruits of Eden, save one, by eating the forbidden fruit should be deprived of them all.
-Gill

Something CHANGED with the curse, friend, and anyone who says it didnt is lying or deceived/deluded. :yes
And we STILL REMAIN under that curse and eat the 'herb of the field' and work the ground to produce that food TODAY.
Again, anyone who says otherwise is either lying or deceived.
The curse is STILL in effect and we ALL face the consequences of it in THIS lifetime...that is FACT ! :yes
.

 

[follower of Christ]

as far as your healing it is In Christ Jesus promised to you because you believe in Him.

WRONG !
YOU say He promised it. ;)
Ive read the NT HUNDREDS of times, friend...been studying it since 1985 and there is NO blanket promise therein that says ALL believers WILL BE healed....NONE...ZERO. :yes

I pray that the Lord will fill you with all understanding and that the scriptures on Gods faithfulness to heal His people will renew your mind and heart to the mind of Christ so that you may have all faith by hearing the word of God on this matter and recieve the healing promised to all those who will believe and not doubt.

and I pray that He will silence damnable heresies that damage the TRUE gospel
.

 

[Cornelius]

And there it is...the "faith-o-meter" that says we have to have a certain level of faith or else God is helpless. Jesus says that if we have as much faith as a tiny mustard seed then that's all we need,

Good point and true. God indeed expects a certain amount of faith from us. AT LEAST the size of a mustard seed. Without is, we indeed bind His hands. He chose to move through our faith.

Here we can clearly see that Jesus could not do much for these people, because they did not have faith.


Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed [them].

Mar 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief

Our unbelief (lack of faith) brings an inability for God to move on our behalf. Jesus COULD NOT do mighty works there, even if He wanted to.

So yes you are right. We tie God's hands, because of our lack of faith in what He says. God keeps us out of the reality of His promises, UNTIL we believe. God made Peter walk on the water only until he doubted. Then God could not keep him on the water any more. Surely that is clear !

Why was Peter the only one that walked ? Because Peter was the only who had faith to do so, until he got scared and doubted. We are the same.That is why we have to endure the trial of faith.

1Pe 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

Why would God put our faith in a trial if it was already perfect ?

 

[Cornelius]

Yes, yes, yes, I am packing by bags and getting ready for a small two day holiday in the mountains. I am out of here , but God willing will see you all again soooooooon

 

[follower of Christ]

And there it is...the "faith-o-meter" that says we have to have a certain level of faith or else God is helpless. Jesus says that if we have as much faith as a tiny mustard seed then that's all we need,

Good point and true. God indeed expects a certain amount of faith from us. AT LEAST the size of a mustard seed. Without is, we indeed bind His hands. He chose to move through our faith.

Here we can clearly see that Jesus could not do much for these people, because they did not have faith.


Mar 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed [them].

Mar 6:6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief

Our unbelief (lack of faith) brings an inability for God to move on our behalf. Jesus COULD NOT do mighty works there, even if He wanted to.

Doesnt that last part betray your beliefs, C ?
I thought He DID want to by default supposedly ???

So yes you are right. We tie God's hands, because of our lack of faith in what He says. God keeps us out of the reality of His promises, UNTIL we believe. God made Peter walk on the water only until he doubted. Then God could not keep him on the water any more. Surely that is clear !

Why was Peter the only one that walked ? Because Peter was the only who had faith to do so, until he got scared and doubted. We are the same.That is why we have to endure the trial of faith.

You have YET to give us a BELIEVABLE reason why Paul told Timothy to use a little wine for his stomach, C....I havent forgotten that point. ;)

 

[follower of Christ]

Yes, yes, yes, I am packing by bags and getting ready for a small two day holiday in the mountains. I am out of here , but God willing will see you all again soooooooon

Have a safe trip

 

[Cornelius]

Yes, yes, yes, I am packing by bags and getting ready for a small two day holiday in the mountains. I am out of here , but God willing will see you all again soooooooon

Have a safe trip

Thank you

and I have already given you a Biblical explanation for the wine WITH scriptures. You not believing them is something that I cannot do anything about.

and no, Jesus not being able to do miracles because of the peoples lack of faith is not against what I believe, it is in fact directly in line with what I am saying all the time. No default situation from God, if there is no faith involved. That is what I have been saying all the time.

A, the other people have just arrived....we ready to go

 

[follower of Christ]

and I have already given you a Biblical explanation for the wine WITH scriptures. You not believing them is something that I cannot do anything about.

What you have done is made it so Jesus turned Paul over to a literal demon while making a parable of something that is meant VERY literally.
Youre right...you cannot do anything about my not buying into your error ;)

and no, Jesus not being able to do miracles because of the peoples lack of faith is not against what I believe, it is in fact directly in line with what I am saying all the time. No default situation from God, if there is no faith involved. That is what I have been saying all the time.

No one here is questioning what the scriptures DO say, C.
What we're rejecting is what youre ADDING to them...which is the simple concept that ALL believers WILL be healed if they simply have faith...ie GOD has no say in the matter.

 

[toddm]

People just seem to have a low view of God's sovereignty around here...ie, God isn't sovereign because our faith and free will trumps His sovereignty. :bigfrown

 

[savedbygrace57]

People just seem to have a low view of God's sovereignty around here...ie, God isn't sovereign because our faith and free will trumps His sovereignty. :bigfrown

Thats not only here, but all over the world..

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

Todd, i would have to say on your last post it may be just the opposite. some of us believe God is soverign. And while God may desire for His people to have certian things such as healing, and while He has provided it through the stripes of Jesus for those who believe- God wants things done on HIS TERMS. He has put a requrement upon all of His promises and that is FAITH. Yes God wants to bless His people in many ways however He does not want to do it without our faith. It is by Faith that we please Him, It is by faith that we must be saved, that we must enter into His promises. We see promises made all through the word of God where God promised, then the person had to walk by faith to recieve their promise. God chose this plan in His soverignty to work with His people. It is by trials of faith that we produce godly patience etc... God does not want to just hand everything to His people and allow them to never mature and walk in real abiding faith in Him. He is going to have us judge the world, and the angels, He does not want us to be worldly unbelievers who walk by sight, He wants us to be JUST and the just live by faith.- Faith walks in the word and promises of God without seeing until it recieves what it is hoping for. It does not walk by sight, or hearing, or feeling, or worldly thinking, or reasoning.

God for instance told abraham he would have a son and sarah and abraham both laughed because everything in the natural world said that was impossible. Both their bodies were dead beyond the age of baring children. Still even though the physical said to them- well i am an old women who is past the ability to have a child, and i have never seen anyone have a child after they are too old, when does that ever happen? have we ever seen that kinda thing?- Even though this is the daily PHYSICAL reality of things, they had to walk in faith without seeing for over 25 years to inherit that promise and bring forth the promised seed! Hebrews says abraham by faith considered NOT his own body being dead.( now God could have just promised it and did it in His soverignty but this is not how he chose to work, He chose to work salvation of all kinds by faith.


It is the bible that makes mention after mention of Jesus telling people who believed for healing " by your faith you are made whole" " your faith has healed you" etc...It was also Jesus who told his apostles " o ye of little faith" when they could not proform a work and it is the testimony of Jesus in the bible that Jesus could not do many mighty works in his home town because of their unbelief.

There is another thing about Jesus that we do not see an example of. many here want to claim that if you are a believer you cannot just believe God to heal you because it may not be His will, however that is not what we see in the edxamples of people Jesus healed. They ran after him, thronged him, grabbed the hem of his garment in faith that if they could just touch it they would be healed(and they were).They let people down through roofs, and traveled far, they asked him just speak a word and it will be done, just come and they will rise up.They believed him for healing before even coming to his face.They did not all come and say " if it i be thy will" They came in faith that it was his will and that he could and would do it.AND HE DID.Only one time did a man say to him " if it be thy will" and Jesus said IT IS! and healed him. If faith is so unimportant to healing as many claim, why did Jesus and the scriptures make such a big deal out of the lengths they went and the words they spoke and the faith they had that healed them? Jesus did not even say to them " i have healed you" He said " thy faith as made thee whole!

Can we as christians, look at the cross and say truly whosoeverbelieves shall be saved? Of course we can- that IS A SOLID PROMISE! and because it is about salvation, none of us wants to deminish that and say " well it doesnt mean a blanket statement that really anyone who were to believe will be saved. But when we speak of healing, and the bible says that by His stripes YE WERE healed, all of a sudden people say that is not a blanket promise. The Psalmist said " Who heals ALL our diseases and forgives all our sins. what does ALL leave out? and as Gods people who does OUR leave out? James said is any sick amoung you let him go to the elders to be prayed for and annointed with oil and HE SHALL RECOVER. and if he has sinned he shall be forgiven! That is a blanket promise to us who are HIS people and go to His elders. It does not say " may recover if it is Gods will". Hebrews says that the israelties in the wilderness were given the gospel but it did not profit them because it was not mixed with faith.

All through the word of God, we as believers are told to walk in faith of God for all things, For our food and rainment for our healing, our provisions, deliverances etc... how are we to do that except by faith? How as we to trust God for anything if we read His word and His promises, and His power and might and strength and deliverance and provisions and we say " but it may not be for me. maybe he doesnt wanna come through for me".

Well lets think about that for a second. In the word what do we see was always the determinding factor for God of how he was going to help a person? If they walked in faith- if they were rightous and holy- if they were merciful and just then He said that their righteousness delivered them.That their faith brought to them the promises they had waited for.
Mostly it gets overlooked but even mary was told that she was blessed because she believed the word spoken to her so she would have a fulfilment of it.- MARY had to walk in faith to bare Jesus. It was becasue zecharais did not believe the angel that he was made to not hear or speak until john was born.

By faith ables sacrifice was accepted, there are so many examples of how people believed God and ran after Him for help or healing or recieved a promise directly or indirectly(through covenant or family) and stood in faith of God for it for themselves.

Hbr 11:6 But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.


Sometimes we can be so afraid of failing in our faith that we decide not even to try to walk by faith or believe the bibles power and promises for ourselves. But we have to come to a place to realize that IF we are true believers in Christ Jesus, saved by faith through grace then the word of God and His promises are written to US. He is literally speaking to US. If a work is done by the sacrifice of Christ, and we are in Christ then that work is for US if we will believe Him. Now we are told that Jesus bore our sorrows and sicknesses, carried our burdens, was wounded for our transgressions, the chastenment of our peace was upon him. Would we stop and say, wel lyes He paid for my sins but he did not carry my soprrows because that part God doesnt will to have Christ do for me, just for some others? Of course not that would be silliness to pull out one part of a prophesy fulfilled for those saved in Christ and say this one part isnt for me directly.- But that is what people are doing when they say that healing is not for all IN CHRIST who will believe him. We are told that we WERE healed by His stripes- that HE BORE our sicknesses and He showed in matt 8:17 that that is directly about him physically healing people.

We all who love the Lord have a battle, we can listen to the old man of sin, the carnal nature, the old us that walks by sight and feelings, and what it hears in the world, andtastes and we can remain cursed, and worldly and without hope in many areas. OR we can crucify the old man, strengthen the inner man, walk by FAITH and not by sight, live in holiness and righteousness, walk and stand on the word of God and the promises of God and most of all on the entire finished work of Christs sufferings and crucifixtion that He did to take our place. We can let the curse be removed from ourselves by faith because we believe that HE became a curse for us becasue cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree.


If we were starving and without food, should we worry or just waste away by the sight of nothing to eat, or should we trust in God who promised US he would feed us? Well we see by the israleties and by elijah, and by Jesus in matt 6 that we should trust God to feed us who are so much better than the birds. If we are lost in sin and cannot escape our human nature should we be content with sinning and hell or should we believe on Christ Jesus to forgive us, cleasne us and FREE us of the bondage sin had over us in the flesh so that we can be saved and walk in newness of life? If we are in bodily danger in a car accident and we do not know our state but may be close to death or serious injury, should we say o well God may not wanna help, or should we cry out to our father and say help me deliver me protect me faithful one?If we have a serious illness, one that has cost all our money to try to fix by men, that has taken tole and toil out of our lives, that has hindered the work of God that we could be doing and Jesus walks by and we lift up our eyes off the ground just enough to see the hem of his garment, should we lower our eyes again and say well for them i guess but maybe not for me, or should we love our Lord, and believe our Lord and know He is loving and faithful and caring and grab out with out last strength to believe and touch that hem in faith that just that touch will heal us of this horror we have lived in?


Jesus told them if you ask your earthly father for bread will he give you a stone? If you ask him an egg will he give you a serpent? How much more so my heavenly father will give those that ask him.



Why do we not believe God loves us as much as He says He does? Why do we think that He is content with rightous, faithful, holy people baring the weight of the curses of SIN on mankind in the form of demons or sicknesses or injuries when He has removed from us the sins that before when we were wicked abided on us freely because of our nature of carnality?

Psa 103:2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:


Psa 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;


Psa 103:4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction; who crowneth thee with lovingkindness and tender mercies;


Psa 103:5 Who satisfieth thy mouth with good [things; so that] thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.


Psa 103:6 The LORD executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed.


Psa 103:7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel.


Psa 103:8 The LORD [is] merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.


Psa 103:9 He will not always chide: neither will he keep [his anger] for ever.


Psa 103:10 He hath not dealt with us after our sins; nor rewarded us according to our iniquities.


Psa 103:11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, [so] great is his mercy toward them that fear him.


Psa 103:12 As far as the east is from the west, [so] far hath he removed our transgressions from us.


Psa 103:13 Like as a father pitieth [his] children, [so] the LORD pitieth them that fear him.


Psa 103:14 For he knoweth our frame; he remembereth that we [are] dust.


Psa 103:15 [As for] man, his days [are] as grass: as a flower of the field, so he flourisheth.


Psa 103:16 For the wind passeth over it, and it is gone; and the place thereof shall know it no more.


Psa 103:17 But the mercy of the LORD [is] from everlasting to everlasting upon them that fear him, and his righteousness unto children's children;


Psa 103:18 To such as keep his covenant, and to those that remember his commandments to do them.


Psa 103:19 The LORD hath prepared his throne in the heavens; and his kingdom ruleth over all.


Psa 103:20 Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.


Psa 103:21 Bless ye the LORD, all [ye] his hosts; [ye] ministers of his, that do his pleasure.


Psa 103:22 Bless the LORD, all his works in all places of his dominion: bless the LORD, O my soul.

 

[follower of Christ]

Such a wonderfully long post, G....and not a single word from SCRIPTURE that shows that ALL WILL be healed

 

[follower of Christ]

We can let the curse be removed from ourselves by faith because we believe that HE became a curse for us becasue cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree.

Really ?
You havent been eating 'herbs of the field' like the rest of us, I take it ;)

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

follower why do you mock? I have given you scriptures that speak directly to YOU if you are in Christ saying that CHrist already provided healing for you when He took stripes. Scriptures that show He heals all OUR diseases but you toss them aside and cannot see them for yourself. I can only pray that God changes that so that you may be truly free and be released from your present illnesses so that your life can be focused on the sufferings of Christ rather than of the curse.

As far as the herb of the field, i already stated that the curse was not that we would eat the herb or the field- God made every herb for us to eat gen 1:9- the Curse was that we would begin to eat the herb by the sweat of your brow and no we do not all do that. Some people toil for their food, and some trust God to feed them like He does the birds. This is what Jesus told us to do in Him, to not worry about what we shall eat or drink or wear but believe that our heavenly father will feed and cloth us.

Mat 6:25 ¶ Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?


Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?


Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?


Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:


Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.


Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?


Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?


Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.


Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.


Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof.

 

[follower of Christ]

follower why do you mock?

Why do you push heresies ?

I have given you scriptures that speak directly to YOU if you are in Christ saying that CHrist already provided healing for you when He took stripes.

SOrry but YOU are taking those WAY out of context, lass. As false ones ALWAYS do.

ANSWER the questoin.
ARE YOU EATING herbs of the field....ie things that man has to work the ground to produce ?
if so then YOU ARE STILL UNDER THE CURSE !
;)

We done here ?
Because you CERTAINLY have NOT shown evidence in any way, shape or form that ALL christians WILL be healed.
Not in the least, poster.

 

[follower of Christ]

As far as the herb of the field, i already stated that the curse was not that we would eat the herb or the field- God made every herb for us to eat gen 1:9- the Curse was that we would begin to eat the herb by the sweat of your brow and no we do not all do that.

No, poster..the curse was that we dont get a free ride in the garden anymore but have to WORK for the food we eat.
And man DOES still do that. Just because you got off lucky and arent working on a FARM doesnt mean Jesus 'saved' you from that...sorry...thats just one big lame joke of a fallacy.
And its an INSULT to EVERY Christian FARMER !

================================================

Gen 1:29 ¶ And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Im sorry, that says we can EAT it...that doesnt say we will have to work the ground for it !
Not even a good try, friend...

(Edited to add)

IN the garden Adam ate the food OF the garden.
It wasnt just the 'herb of the FIELD' that came with the curse where Adam had to work the ground to produce it.When cast from the garden Adam NOW had to WORK for providing his food...which WE STILL do TODAY !

And thou shall eat the herb of the field;
not the fruits of the garden of Eden, but only the common herbs of the field, such as even the beasts of the earth fed upon: to such a low condition was man, the lord of the whole earth, reduced unto by sin; and this was according to the law of retaliation, that man, who could not be content with all the fruits of Eden, save one, by eating the forbidden fruit should be deprived of them all.
-Gill

Something CHANGED with the curse, friend, and anyone who says it didnt is lying or deceived/deluded. :yes
And we STILL REMAIN under that curse and eat the 'herb of the field' and work the ground to produce that food TODAY.
Again, anyone who says otherwise is either lying or deceived.
The curse is STILL in effect and we ALL face the consequences of it in THIS lifetime...that is FACT ! :yes
.