By His Stripes we are Healed !

[Cornelius]

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Anything at all, C ?




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Unless you can tell me how the words "nothing shall be impossible" would mean it excludes healing. Even of amputees. Lets not take our opinions and make that the Word of God. To claim something against what Jesus is saying is relying on your own insight.Pro 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding: Our own understanding is in line with our world and our ways. We must learn to get it in line with the Word. Only then does the power of God come into our lives to change that which we cannot change.

 

[follower of Christ]

Unless you can tell me how the words "nothing shall be impossible" would mean it excludes healing. Even of amputees. Lets not take our opinions and make that the Word of God. To claim something against what Jesus is saying is relying on your own insight.Pro 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding: Our own understanding is in line with our world and our ways. We must learn to get it in line with the Word. Only then does the power of God come into our lives to change that which we cannot change.

I'll take that as a big 'No, FoC, I have NO clue about all that....but I WILL come up with some irrelevant comeback so I dont have to admit that Im in way over my head and should NEVER have even posted a word definition in this discussion" ;)

 

[Cornelius]

Nice try, gent ;)
The WHOLE bible doesnt tell us how to render a word in ONE sentence. The surrounding context in THAT passage and sentence does.
Youre reallyout there in left field, bro....out to the moon.

Of course it does. I am quoting the Bible here and you say it is not so

Psa 119:160 The sum of thy word is truth;
Meaing, the WHOLE must be seen as one and THEN you will have the truth. That is what I have been saying all the time. :yes

 

[JoJo]

Unless you can tell me how the words "nothing shall be impossible" would mean it excludes healing. Even of amputees. Lets not take our opinions and make that the Word of God. To claim something against what Jesus is saying is relying on your own insight.Pro 3:5 Trust in Jehovah with all thy heart, And lean not upon thine own understanding: Our own understanding is in line with our world and our ways. We must learn to get it in line with the Word. Only then does the power of God come into our lives to change that which we cannot change.

Words of wisdom. Thank you, Cornelius, for reminding us to align our hopes and desires with God's Word and expect God-powered results.

 

[follower of Christ]

Of course it does. I am quoting the Bible here and you say it is not so

No friend...NOT ONE WORD of ANYTHING YOU PROVIDED SAID "ALL WILL be HEALED" !

WHEN you can show us CONTEXT from the WHOLE that SAYS "ALL WILL BE HEALED" that we can use to interpret all the healing passages with you give us a ring, gent.
Till then youre simply wasting our time with a false gospel....

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===========================================================================



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For the READERS of this thread, lets look at just some random english word.
How about the word 'medium'.

me·di·um (md-m)
n. pl. me·di·a (-d-) or me·di·ums
1. Something, such as an intermediate course of action, that occupies a position or represents a condition midway between extremes.
2. An intervening substance through which something else is transmitted or carried on.
3. An agency by which something is accomplished, conveyed, or transferred: The train was the usual medium of transportation in those days.
4. pl. media Usage Problem
a. A means of mass communication, such as newpapers, magazines, radio, or television.
b. media (used with a sing. or pl. verb) The group of journalists and others who constitute the communications industry and profession.
5. pl. media Computer Science An object or device, such as a disk, on which data is stored.
6. pl. mediums A person thought to have the power to communicate with the spirits of the dead or with agents of another world or dimension. Also called psychic.
7. pl. media
a. A surrounding environment in which something functions and thrives.
b. The substance in which a specific organism lives and thrives.
c. A culture medium.
8.
a. A specific kind of artistic technique or means of expression as determined by the materials used or the creative methods involved: the medium of lithography.
b. The materials used in a specific artistic technique: oils as a medium.
9. A solvent with which paint is thinned to the proper consistency.
10. Chemistry A filtering substance, such as filter paper.
11. A size of paper, usually 18 × 23 inches or 17 1/2 × 22 inches.

Now do you see the different meanings above ?

If we were translating the word 'medium' from a sentence in English into spanish we would HAVE to use the surrounding CONTEXT to know precisely what the INTENT was so that we could find the APPROPRIATE spanish equivalent.
We WOULDNT just say that 'medium' means ALL of those in that one sentence because it would be pretty much impossible for it TO take on ALL of those intents.

But THAT is what Cornelius is basically asking you to believe here.
That we'd take a sentence such this one:

"The internet is the medium through which this discussion is taking place"

...and have you believe that ALL of those definitions apply....including the one that says;

"1. Something, such as an intermediate course of action, that occupies a position or represents a condition midway between extremes"

When that CLEARLY is NOT how the sentence is using the word.
4a would be applicable, 1 would not in this case...


.

 

[DarcyLu]

Here is one of my favorites

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
ALL things, including healing ! Whatsoever, includes healing !Just believe you have received when you pray and you shall have it. But that takes faith. You have to have faith that you have indeed received !
Then the good fight of faith starts. When we endure to the end of the trial, we receive that which we asked for...............even health.

I am back with a quick thought -
A tad bit off OP here, my question is (outside of healing) would it not be best to be asking for things within His will. Even believing we are in His will, we may not be and ask for something that would not be beneficial to us - wouldn't these matters be best kept within His Will? He is Soveriegn and only He knows what would be best for us.

 

[DarcyLu]

The reason why people here say their faith is being damaged, is because they believe "faith" is only believing in God, whereas faith is also believing God. Not believing the promises means we have no faith in the promises, while we are in fact believing IN God.

So when they say their faith is suffering, they are not talking about their faith in the promises. But most Christians do not even give this a second thought. They keep on saying " I have faith" (Yes you have, but you do not have faith in the promises.....................you only have faith IN GOD )

They only believe IN God, they do not BELIEVE God. There is a difference.

Agreed and you have already given the examples of the Israelites actually seeing the cloud, hearing His voice, etc. and still not believing Him. It could be said of many Christians today that we are paralyzed with unbelief and not able to do His work because we do not believe. Even though we are told He is in us, we can do greater things than He, we continue in unbelief and His Body is not working together to build up His church.
Just my

 

[follower of Christ]

Examples of Israelites being healed or whatever doesnt say that ALL will be healed in this age of the church, Im afraid.
Having FAITH unto SALVATION is enough for healing *IF* ALL are to be healed.
Anyone who doesnt understand that fact is oblivious as to what faith is.

Its an absurdity to say or believe that a person BELIEVES a Man-God came down to die as a sacrifice for crimes He didnt commit, yet this person DOESNT BELIEVE enough to be healed.

For crying out loud, Jesus HEALED people who WERENT saved and THEN they believed !

Then Jesus came again to Cana of Galilee where He made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman whose son was sick in Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and asked Him that He might come down and heal his son, for he was about to die. Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe." The nobleman said to Him, "Sir, come down before my child dies!" Jesus said to him, "Go; your son lives." And the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and went away. And already as he was going, his servants met him and reported, saying, "Your child lives!" Then he inquired from them the hour at which he got better. And they said to him, "Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him." Therefore the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, "Your son lives." And he himself believed, and his whole household.
(Joh 4:46-53 EMTV)

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[DarcyLu]

Examples of Israelites being healed or whatever doesnt say that ALL will be healed in this age of the church, Im afraid.
Having FAITH unto SALVATION is enough for healing *IF* ALL are to be healed.
Anyone who doesnt understand that fact is oblivious as to what faith is.

Its an absurdity to say or believe that a person BELIEVES a Man-God came down to die as a sacrifice for crimes He didnt commit, yet this person DOESNT BELIEVE enough to be healed.

For crying out loud, Jesus HEALED people who WERENT saved and THEN they believed !

Calm down Foc The agreement was that we, as Christians, do not always believe the Bible, even though this thread is talking about healing, there are other issues we, as Christians, do not believe. We can agree God heals, but when you make statements such as, "I will never be healed", then you are showing that you have lost hope in God as far as healing you and personally, I do not want to agree with you on this issue because we should never say, "I will never be healed", as we do not know God's plans for us. God might be trying to show you something in this thread.

 

[follower of Christ]

Calm down Foc

Not uncalm at all ;)
The only thing that has ever 'angered' me on another forum somewhere on the web that I was talking to was attack on our sons by some mutant who claimed that our boys join the military because they want to murder women and children.
Other than that, Im typically pretty much in no particular emotional state or possibly chuckling at some of the things I read in here

The agreement was that we, as Christians, do not always believe the Bible, even though this thread is talking about healing, there are other issues we, as Christians, do not believe. We can agree God heals, but when you make statements such as, "I will never be healed", then you are showing that you have lost hope in God as far as healing you and personally, I do not want to agree with you on this issue because we should never say, "I will never be healed", as we do not know God's plans for us. God might be trying to show you something in this thread.

I figured that was your intent, but the way it was worded it left a little to the imagination. I just wanted to make sure to clarify things a bit

 

[DarcyLu]

Examples of Israelites being healed or whatever doesnt say that ALL will be healed in this age of the church, Im afraid.
Having FAITH unto SALVATION is enough for healing *IF* ALL are to be healed.
Anyone who doesnt understand that fact is oblivious as to what faith is.

Well, FoC, then I trust you will remain calm as I disagree with you here. We believe God provided us with salvation through the death of Jesus, but we may not believe God for His other promises. So basically what you seem to be saying is - I believe Jesus died for me on the cross and my faith in that will cover all His other promises, but that is not what the Bible teaches.

 

[follower of Christ]

Examples of Israelites being healed or whatever doesnt say that ALL will be healed in this age of the church, Im afraid.
Having FAITH unto SALVATION is enough for healing *IF* ALL are to be healed.
Anyone who doesnt understand that fact is oblivious as to what faith is.

Well, FoC, then I trust you will remain calm as I disagree with you here. We believe God provided us with salvation through the death of Jesus, but we may not believe God for His other promises. So basically what you seem to be saying is - I believe Jesus died for me on the cross and my faith in that will cover all His other promises, but that is not what the Bible teaches.

And Im sorry but that is simply nonsense.
YOure going to need to SHOW us evidence, D, of your assertions, just as I have been doing.

Ive already PROVEN that a mans child was healed and THEN he believed unto salvation.
If anything that shows that belief required for healing is LESS than belief required for salvation.

Then Jesus came again to Cana of Galilee where He made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman whose son was sick in Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and asked Him that He might come down and heal his son, for he was about to die. Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe." The nobleman said to Him, "Sir, come down before my child dies!" Jesus said to him, "Go; your son lives." And the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and went away. And already as he was going, his servants met him and reported, saying, "Your child lives!" Then he inquired from them the hour at which he got better. And they said to him, "Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him." Therefore the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, "Your son lives." And he himself believed, and his whole household.
(Joh 4:46-53 EMTV)

We either BELIEVE God or we dont.

 

[follower of Christ]

And its pathetically sad that some here think that Jesus WILL heal those who DONT yet believe on Him for salvation (as proven in the passage before), then he'll play such horrible games witht he faith of those who HAVE trusted Him for salvation.
This god some serve here is sickening and perverse.

 

[DarcyLu]

Ive already PROVEN that a mans child was healed and THEN he believed unto salvation.
If anything that shows that belief required for healing is LESS than belief required for salvation.

We either BELIEVE God or we dont.

The Bible says our faith grows, by what means could/would God choose to grow someone's faith?

Jesus was also laying the foundation for His church - we are to be building it up, how can we do that if we don't do what the Bible says to do?

 

[follower of Christ]

The Bible says our faith grows, by what means could/would God choose to grow someone's faith?

Chapter and verse please so WE may examine the evidence.
If you cant provide support from scripture from now on, Im just going to ignore your statements.

Jesus was also laying the foundation for His church - we are to be building it up, how can we do that if we don't do what the Bible says to do?

Building up doesnt necessarily imply LACK OF FAITH or BELIEF.


Maybe you should just argue from Cornelius' POV and be done with it, D.

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[follower of Christ]

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the perfecting of the saints for the work of ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ, until we all arrive to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;
(Eph 4:11-13 EMTV)

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith,....
These words regard the continuance of the Gospel ministry in the church, until all the elect of God come in: or "to the unity of the faith"; by which is meant, not the union between the saints, the cement of which is love; nor that which is between Christ and his people, of which his love, and not their faith, is the bond; but the same with the "one faith", Eph_4:5 and designs either the doctrine of faith, which is uniform, and all of a piece; and the sense is, that the ministration of the Gospel will continue until the saints entirely unite in their sentiments about it, and both watchmen and churches see eye to eye: or else the grace of faith, which as to its nature, object, author, spring, and cause, is the same; and it usually comes by hearing; and all God's elect shall have it; and the work and office of the ministry will remain until they are all brought to believe in Christ;
-John Gill

Eph 4:13
In the unity of the faith -
Jews and Gentiles being all converted according to the doctrines laid down in the faith - the Christian system.
-Adam Clarke

 

[DarcyLu]

The Bible says our faith grows, by what means could/would God choose to grow someone's faith?

Chapter and verse please so WE may examine the evidence.
If you cant provide support from scripture from now on, Im just going to ignore your statements.

Even the apostles asked Jesus to increase their faith - Luke 17:5-10 and Mark 9:24 the boy's father said "help me with my unbelief".

Building up doesnt necessarily imply LACK OF FAITH or BELIEF.

Your plan is to build up His church w/out faith?

Maybe you should just argue from Cornelius' POV and be done with it, D.

I can think for myself, FoC.

 

[follower of Christ]

Even the apostles asked Jesus to increase their faith - Luke 17:5-10 and Mark 9:24 the boy's father said "help me with my unbelief".

Nice. Except it doesnt say a thing about their being so weak in their faith that Jesus could not have healed them physically ;)
now show me how a man believed enough to have his son HEALED, saved from death, and THEN believed to salvation.
You seem to have your details reversed.

Then Jesus came again to Cana of Galilee where He made the water wine. And there was a certain nobleman whose son was sick in Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and asked Him that He might come down and heal his son, for he was about to die. Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe." The nobleman said to Him, "Sir, come down before my child dies!" Jesus said to him, "Go; your son lives." And the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and went away. And already as he was going, his servants met him and reported, saying, "Your child lives!" Then he inquired from them the hour at which he got better. And they said to him, "Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him." Therefore the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, "Your son lives." And he himself believed, and his whole household.
(Joh 4:46-53 EMTV)

Your plan is to build up His church w/out faith?

Dont you just love it when someone takes what you DID say and makes it into something you DIDNT say
Can I expect you to show some of the same dishonesty here as others have, D ?

 

[DarcyLu]

Nice. Except it doesnt say a thing about their being so weak in their faith that Jesus could not have healed them physically ;)
now show me how a man believed enough to have his son HEALED, saved from death, and THEN believed to salvation.
You seem to have your details reversed.

No, but the original request was for scripture showing our faith can increase and grow - I provided it and now you are redirecting its original intent.

Dont you just love it when someone takes what you DID say and makes it into something you DIDNT say
Can I expect you to show some of the same dishonesty here as others have, D ?

I am not trying to be dishonest, my intent is to show that in order for us to be His Body and build up His church, it will require faith on our part. In order to be His Body we must first believe His Word - conditional? Yes, very much so.

 

[follower of Christ]

No, but the original request was for scripture showing our faith can increase and grow - I provided it and now you are redirecting its original intent.

I asked you to provide your evidence so WE could examine it. It DOESNT say what it needs to in order for your views to be correct.
My faith has grown exponentially over the years. That doesnt mean that it wasnt enough to be healed or get ANYTHING FROM God at its very beginning.

I am not trying to be dishonest, my intent is to show that in order for us to be His Body and build up His church, it will require faith on our part. In order to be His Body we must first believe His Word - conditional? Yes, very much so.

And as Ive proven a mans son was healed, saved from death, BEFORE that man came to belief unto salvation.
So again, your understanding must be skewed somehow.