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By His Stripes we are Healed !

follower of Christ said:
And as Ive proven a mans son was healed, saved from death, BEFORE that man came to belief unto salvation.
So again, your understanding must be skewed somehow.

:)
God is Soveriegn! He can do whatever He wants. The man did say he believed though, right before he said help my unbelief.

Once we become believers, things change, promises such as those who overcome will be given white garments, those who stay in Christ will be conformed to His image, we can do all things through Christ who is in me, the promises of a new earth and a new heaven become real to us and they are ours to grab a hold of. This is believing God.
 
DarcyLu said:
God is Soveriegn! He can do whatever He wants.
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y !!!!
But YOU are saying if WE BELIEVE then WE manipulate whether GOD heals us or not !

The man did say he believed though, right before he said help my unbelief.
The man believed for the healing of His son BEFORE it shows he and his family 'believing'
The man knew Jesus was healing across the land and BELIEVED in that healing BEFORE he ever believed for salvation, friend.
Then Jesus came again to Cana of Galilee where He made the water wine.
And there was a certain nobleman whose son was sick in Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and asked Him that He might come down and heal his son, for he was about to die.

Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe." The nobleman said to Him, "Sir, come down before my child dies!" Jesus said to him, "Go; your son lives." And the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and went away.

And already as he was going, his servants met him and reported, saying, "Your child lives!" Then he inquired from them the hour at which he got better. And they said to him, "Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him." Therefore the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, "Your son lives."
And he himself believed, and his whole household.
(Joh 4:46-53 EMTV)
Dont even try to twist the facts for your error !

Once we become believers, things change, promises such as those who overcome will be given white garments, those who stay in Christ will be conformed to His image, we can do all things through Christ who is in me, the promises of a new earth and a new heaven become real to us and they are ours to grab a hold of. This is believing God.
No TRUE belief in God means BELIEF whether HE PERFORMS for us like a vending machine or not...

GOD did NOT promise to heal everyone....YOU folks have !

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What we see in the word is that yes our faith and grow and increase as was shown and mostly we agree.

Beyond that we are shown that what hinders us from recieving from God is when we have doubt and unbelief MIXED with our faith.- When we have faith, but we are also having a double mind and are wavering between faith and doubt and faith and worry that is when we do not recieve from God. and contrary are told when we do not waver but believe without doubting then we recieve.

Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.


Mat 17:19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
Mat 17:20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.


Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this [which is done] to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God.
Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them].

see believe and DOUBT NOT- whatever ye ask BELIEVING and shall NOT DOUBT YE SHALL RECIEVE.

Sometimes we have faith yes BUT it is mixed WITH worry and doubt making us double minded so that we do not recieve what we have asked or believed for.It is true that the faith of a mustard seed moves mountains, but that faith must be single minded and not mixed with doubt. When we doubt we cannot think we will recieve anything from God.

Now when we hear the wpord and promises of God we must hear them AND mix the hearing with FAITH to have it profit us. We learn this lesson from the Israelites who did not mix the word with faith.

Hbr 4:1 ¶ Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left [us] of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Hbr 4:2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard [it].
Hbr 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.


People get upset because of the idea that we say AGod responds to faith or lack thereof, as if our faith is manipulating God however this is not a manipulation, it is GODS WORD and plan for us. He has set forth His ways and requires us to meet him by faith in order to have what He promises. This is not us manipulating God- it is us obeying God by believing Him so that He will fulfill His promise in us.-It cannot be us manipulating God- when God has set forth promises and commanded us to ask- believe- and not doubt and with that promises that " ye shall have it". We are therefore only meeting Gods commandment and requirements not manipulating him.WHat truly manipulates(or attempts to)God is when we do not read His word with faith applying it to ourselves and stand in faith or pray IN FAITH and then expect that there is any possibility for God to heal us or help us without us believing him. Then using our mouths and hearts to say that when we did not recieve what we asked or read because we did not believe that it was because it was not Gods will to do it.

If we ask or pray and then SEE that right away we dont seem to have what we asked, then we did not ask in faith and arent in faith but in unbelief and are walking by sight.- This is why faith produces patience. Faith requires us to believe before we have seen it and to believe we already h ave it even though we dont see it yet and to stand in that until we do really see it.- Walking with God is about being in faith, and patience being produced through our walk and trial of faith while we wait on the Lord.

There is a big differnece between reading the bible, and reading the bible in faith. and there is a big differnce between knowing the words, and having the revelation and understanding of Gods will through the word. If we do not know Gods will for ALL His people then we cannot ever walk in faith for what we pray or ask or read as applying it to ourselves because we will always be thinking " what f its not Gods will"- that is doubt and not firm expectation.We will always wonder if " yes God does this but maybe not for me, maybe i am a differnet case"When we have this form of thinking we are not having the mind of Christ or the heart of faith in singleness of mind because we are every questioning instead of believing and if we are ever questioning then we cannot walk by faith and ignore what is seen- because we are bound to looking to what is seen to try to constantly determine what the answers to those questions are.


We are told to ask God in faith without doubting in our hearts and BELIEVE you HAVE recieved it and you SHALL have it.- we are not told to pray all the time " is this your will" " please do it if you wanna, if you dont do it then i guess you didnt wanna". WHen we cannot stand in faith when we have asked or read, then we have done so in vain and we get in the flesh and try to save and deliver ourselves.
 
GodspromisesRyes said:
Jam 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jam 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jam 1:8 A double minded man [is] unstable in all his ways.
AGAIN...this is about WISDOM ! :lol
I LOVE how you guys keep leaving out details that expose your error...
If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
(Jas 1:5-7 KJV)
It IS NOT a blanket promise to hand us everything we want....
 
We are told to ask God in faith without doubting in our hearts and BELIEVE you HAVE recieved it and you SHALL have it.- we are not told to pray all the time " is this your will" " please do it if you wanna, if you dont do it then i guess you didnt wanna".
WRONG!
Ive already shown you a FEW times in this thread that we CAN ask and NOT receive, poster. WHY do you continue to present such dishonest tactics ?
Jas 4:3 Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

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Once more...we have EVIDENCE HERE about a man who BELIEVED for HEALING of his son yet had NOT YET come to belief unto salvation until AFTER the healing.
Then Jesus came again to Cana of Galilee where He made the water wine.
And there was a certain nobleman whose son was sick in Capernaum. When he heard that Jesus had come out of Judea into Galilee, he went to Him and asked Him that He might come down and heal his son, for he was about to die.

Then Jesus said to him, "Unless you people see signs and wonders, you will by no means believe." The nobleman said to Him, "Sir, come down before my child dies!" Jesus said to him, "Go; your son lives." And the man believed the word that Jesus spoke to him, and went away.

And already as he was going, his servants met him and reported, saying, "Your child lives!" Then he inquired from them the hour at which he got better. And they said to him, "Yesterday at the seventh hour the fever left him." Therefore the father knew that it was at the same hour in which Jesus said to him, "Your son lives."
And he himself believed, and his whole household.
(Joh 4:46-53 EMTV)

WE BELIEVE God yet you false prophets here keep claiming that we dont believe ENOUGH.
HOGWASH !

:)
 
People get upset because of the idea that we say AGod responds to faith or lack thereof, as if our faith is manipulating God however this is not a manipulation, it is GODS WORD and plan for us.
WRONG.
WE are disgusted by your PERVERSION Of Gods word...ADDING promises that HE NEVER MADE ! :yes
This is not us manipulating God-
Youre right....because He will NOT be manipulated. But it IS your making the attempt.
If we ask or pray and then SEE that right away we dont seem to have what we asked, then we did not ask in faith and arent in faith but in unbelief and are walking by sight.-
NOthing but unscriptural nonsense as Ive already proven.
There ARE things WE can ask for that God WILL NOT GIVE even if its simply because we ask with wrong motivations.
That alone dashes your godless fallacy to shreds.
 
lord, i want to grew wings and fly, and i know that you have the power and i have the faith that you will do this for me because you love me, and i will fly around the earth proclaiming the gospel for you, i claim it done and in jesus name amen.
 
There is a big differnece between reading the bible, and reading the bible in faith.
And that difference is made clear when we BELIEVE unto SALVATION at which time we BELIEVE enough to get anything from God that He wants us to have !
:yes
and there is a big differnce between knowing the words, and having the revelation and understanding of Gods will through the word.
And there is a huge difference between ACCEPTING what Gods word SAYS and ADDING ones own godless error INTO the texts....

.
 
jasoncran said:
lord, i want to grew wings and fly, and i know that you have the power and i have the faith that you will do this for me because you love me, and i will fly around the earth proclaiming the gospel for you, i claim it done and in jesus name amen.
:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
.
 
jasoncran said:
some christians come across like that.
It comes off sounding that way with a few, for certain.
I wish God would show them the damage they are doing to others who dont know better.

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follower- yes the verse you quote is about wisdom, however i was speaking about a pciciple of faith that i showed forth with other witnesses elsewhere which you did not then speak on.

and can we ask amiss for our lusts? yes but you cannot ask amiss IN FAITH without doubting because when you ask in your lusts you are not asking in faith without doubt. Flesh is not faith. and Faith is not flesh. lusts are of flesh and if you ask in lusts you are not asking in faith nothing doubting which were what Jesus said we must do in all those other verses that I gave.
 
GodspromisesRyes said:
follower- yes the verse you quote is about wisdom, however i was speaking about a pciciple of faith that i showed forth with other witnesses elsewhere which you did not then speak on.
And you are making your OWN principles about asking and recieving using an IRRELEVANT passage to do so.
Ive shown PROOF that we CAN ask and NOT receive and it has NOTHING to do with lack of faith as you folks try to claim in that instance but there is solely about wrong intent.
That proves conclusively that ASKING does NOT =GETTING just because we want something and ask for it.
Yet YOU keep running on saying we CAN and WILL.
and can we ask amiss for our lusts? yes but you cannot ask amiss IN FAITH without doubting because when you ask in your lusts you are not asking in faith without doubt. Flesh is not faith. and Faith is not flesh. lusts are of flesh and if you ask in lusts you are not asking in faith nothing doubting which were what Jesus said we must do in all those other verses that I gave.
Oh blah blah blah.
Youve been refuted and all your distraction isnt going to change that fact.

Are we done here ?

.
 
Jasoncran wasn't asking in lust when he wanted wings to go spread the Gospel.

Got wings, yet, brother, or is your faith just not strong enough?
My faith must be greater than yours, cause I got me a pair. :angel2
 
DarcyLu said:
Cornelius said:
Here is one of my favorites :)

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, All things whatsoever ye pray and ask for, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
ALL things, including healing ! Whatsoever, includes healing !Just believe you have received when you pray and you shall have it. But that takes faith. You have to have faith that you have indeed received !
Then the good fight of faith starts. When we endure to the end of the trial, we receive that which we asked for...............even health.
I am back with a quick thought -
A tad bit off OP here, my question is (outside of healing) would it not be best to be asking for things within His will. Even believing we are in His will, we may not be and ask for something that would not be beneficial to us - wouldn't these matters be best kept within His Will? He is Soveriegn and only He knows what would be best for us.

If you recall, I presented this question and it has not been answered yet.
It would be best if we remained in God's will, but I wanted to see what Cornelius' take was on this.
 
follower of Christ said:
DarcyLu said:
God is Soveriegn! He can do whatever He wants.
E-X-A-C-T-L-Y !!!!
But YOU are saying if WE BELIEVE then WE manipulate whether GOD heals us or not !
No, sorry I never said we could manipulate God into healing us - my claim is that God DOES in fact heal and that we, as Christians, do not always believe what the Word says and we are paralyzed because of our unbelief.

My concern is, FoC, you stated that you will never be healed, and it appears that you have lost hope but God has promised us hope and we should never give up on God's healing.
 
jasoncran said:
i was one of those, till i learned that god allows thing in our lives to teach us.
Agreed, none of us would be where we are w/out God's teachings through our life experiences. We will suffer.
 
glorydaz said:
Jasoncran wasn't asking in lust when he wanted wings to go spread the Gospel.

Got wings, yet, brother, or is your faith just not strong enough?
My faith must be greater than yours, cause I got me a pair. :angel2
ha ha :lol
 
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