Call No Man Father

[donadams]

God gives us peace through the Lord Jesus Christ and the submission to His written Word.

Following Traditions and the dogmas of men is anarchy.

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17


The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

Let me see if I understand you:

Scripture? YES!

Actually believe scripture? NO!

 

[donadams]

How do you explain to your self the practices that are NOT found in the Bible but you believe and practice.

The Immacualte Conception of Mary.

Are you able to conceptualize the fact that the teaching that Mary was born without sin is totally denying the Word of God which says in Romans 3:23....."ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

Immaculate, meaning "without stain," says that Mary herself was preserved from original sin at conception, that she was born without a sin nature, and that she lived a sinless life.

You as a CAtholic have been taught to use Genesis 3:15 - the protoevangelium.
You accept that and use it to try and explain this by saying the woman (Mary) must be as equally sinless as her Offspring (Christ).

Then as a Catholic, you believe what the Church has told you about Luke 1:28.........
“The angel went to her and said, ‘Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you.’”

The Greek word translated “highly favored” is to be rendered “favored with grace”; thus, according to Catholic dogma, Mary had a superabundance of grace, rendering her sinless, and that’s why God chose her to bear His Son.

You have been taught by The Roman Catholic Church that the Immaculate Conception is necessary because, without it, Jesus would have received His flesh from one who was herself a slave to the devil, whose works Jesus came to destroy. Mary, as the mother of the Redeemer, needed for her flesh to be free from the power of sin, and God gave her that privilege. From her time in the womb, Mary was sanctified because of her special role in bringing the Son of God incarnate into the world.

Here is the problem with the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception and it is that it is not taught in the Bible. It is wholly a dictate from the Catholic Pope and Even Catholics admit that Scripture does not directly teach the Immaculate Conception. The Bible nowhere describes Mary as anything but an ordinary human female whom God chose to be the mother of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Bible fact is that Mary is not an exception to the Bible’s statement that “all have sinned” (Romans 3:23). The fact is that Mary needed a Savior just like the rest of us (Luke 1:47).

I state these Bible facts to ask YOU, as an educated man, knowledgeable, how do you reconcile these facts with your acceptance of such a false teaching. ????

Mary was saved yes amen!
She is what God made her by his grace and not nature! Lk 1:49

Saved but in advance “in the first moment of her conception”!

Rom 3 refers to original sin and Mary was created without it

Mary highly extraordinary and privileged, no human has ever had a family relationship with God! Except Mary and she has three!

Only one “handmaid of the Lord”!

Luke 1:28 the Lord is with her!
Always with her!
In his miraculous conception
his birth
At the wedding Jn 2
On the cross!

Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

But in Mary for nine months!

King david has love of Mary!

Psalm 26:8
Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.


The holy church Exalts Mary to the glory of God!


Exalted dignity and prerogatives of the divine mother:

Mary is Filled with the plenitude of divine grace. Lk 1:28
Lord is with Mary. Lk 1:28
Blessed. Lk 1:28

Mother of our savior. Matt 2:11
Mother of our salvation. Lk 2:30
Found our salvation. Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation. Lk 1:38

My soul “existence” does magnify the Lord! Lk 1:46-47

Mary practices of the virtues of Jesus Christ. Prov. 31

The immaculate conception:
Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Song of Solomon 4:7 & 6:9-10 rev 12:1
Perpetual virginity: Isa 7:14 Matt 1:21-23 Lk 1:34
Divine maternity: Lk 1:43
Assumption: rev 12:1

All generations shall call me blessed! Lk 1:48

Actually this is an exultation of thanksgiving for having obtain thier eternal salvation!

Mary is the ark of the covenant and the temple of God, God consecrated and dwelt in Her for 9 months and cannot be used for a ordinary purpose, and it is God who glorified his dwelling!

Mary and all the saints obtained grace, virtues, and merits from God’s infinite goodness, mercy and love and their praises end in the glory of Christ the source of all grace and of God. Jn 1:16-17 Lk 1:49

Not by nature but by supernatural grace!

Mary and the saints are what God made them not according nature but by the supernatural grace of God!
Lk 1:49

Glory to God for His mighty works and grace and mercy in His saints!
2 thes 1:10

Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30

 

[donadams]

There is only one “Mother of God”!Lk 1:43

There is only one “Virgin-Mother”! Isa 7:14 perpetual virgin!

There is only one “Immaculate Conception” prepared by God for His only begotten son! Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Lk 1:49 Rev 12:1

There is only one “Handmaid of the Lord”! Lk 1:28

Faithful humble handmaid Lk 1:45 Lk 1:48

There is only one “Mother of our Savior” who consented to our salvation undoing the sin of Eve! Lk 1:38

Mary found our salvation lost by Adam! Lk 1:30

Consented to our salvation! Lk 1:38

There is only one “woman” who seed crushes satans proud head Gen 3:15 and is queen in heaven! Rev 12:1

There is only one who’s soul (existence) magnifies the Lord! Lk 1:46

We must declared Her “blessed”! Lk 1:48

And we cannot be disciples of Our Lord without taking Mary into our house! Jn 19:26:27

Mary’s obedience!

Lk 1:49 God prepared Her by the immaculate conception

but just as Eve by disobedience participated with Adam by and angel, so Mary by obedience participated by an angel!

 

[donadams]

Jesus was conceived pure and immaculate because Mary was pure and immaculate. As Job said “Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? There is not one.” (Job 14:4).

Scripture says: “holiness befits thy house, O Lord” (Ps 93:5). Mary was Jesus’ “house” for 9 months so if holiness befits God’s house would not Mary be holy also? Just like the Ark and the Tabernacle she was set apart and consecrated to the Lord., the holy dwelling of God.

1 cor 3:17 …..for the temple of God is holy….. Mary is the temple, house, dwelling of God, God had need of Her to become man!

 

[donadams]

The apostolic church has always believed and taught that Mary is

The mother of God:
(Jesus is divine, Mary is His mother)
The immaculate conception: (sinless)
Assumption:
(Crowned queen by God in heaven)
Perpetual virgin:
(No sex)

And even the original so -called reformers, until the hyper-fundamentalists of the 1800’s very few ever opposed these dogma’s!

Bound in heaven / bound on earth!
Apostles commanded by Christ to teach, we are bound to believe! Acts 16:17 show us the way of salvation!


——————-

The Bible says people are blessed Matt 5
Mary is blessed Lk 1:28
Do you know why?
All Generations of true Christians call her blessed. Lk 1:48
Also Lk 1:45 faithful

To a true the sweet name of our mother who gave birth “born again” to us is sweet, but to demons and false Christians is bitter. Mary is the air we breathe, as breathing is a sign of life so the frequent pronouncing the name of Mary is a sign of life of grace in Christ!

Mother of “fair love”

 

[donadams]

God gives us peace through the Lord Jesus Christ and the submission to His written Word.

Following Traditions and the dogmas of men is anarchy.

Then there is an important ((biblical principle))

A good tree!

A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit!
A bad tree (sinner) cannot bear good fruit! (Savior / salvation)

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

A Good tree cannot bear bad fruit!
A biblical principle approved by Jesus even though He knew it would be used to defend His sinless mother!


Cannot give enough glory to Mary!

Lk 2:32 a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Jesus is the fruit of Mary!
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, Mary is the mother of the light of the world and if the son receives glory Mary receives glory, if the sin is holy Mary is holy!

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit!

If Jesus is the fruit of Mary and the glory of Israel then so is Mary!

A good tree must bear good fruit!

 

[Rodger]

Then there is an important ((biblical principle))

A good tree!

A good tree CANNOT bear bad fruit!
A bad tree (sinner) cannot bear good fruit! (Savior / salvation)

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Matt 1:21 Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation! This reflects the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

A good tree (immaculate conception) Lk 1:49 God has done this and it is marvelous in our eyes!

A Good tree cannot bear bad fruit!
A biblical principle approved by Jesus even though He knew it would be used to defend His sinless mother!


Cannot give enough glory to Mary!

Lk 2:32 a light to lighten the Gentiles, and the glory of thy people Israel.

Jesus is the fruit of Mary!
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, Mary is the mother of the light of the world and if the son receives glory Mary receives glory, if the sin is holy Mary is holy!

A good tree cannot bear bad fruit!

If Jesus is the fruit of Mary and the glory of Israel then so is Mary!

A good tree must bear good fruit!

That is a good analogy, and I agree to a point, however it does not apply to humans.
Humans you see are born with the freedom to choose and a sin nature. Inanimate objects do not, so then your example of Mary to Jesus does not apply.

If it did.......explain Adolf Hitler.
If it did.......explain Dennis Rader.
If it did.......explain Richard Cottingham.

 

[Rodger]

Mary was saved yes amen!
She is what God made her by his grace and not nature! Lk 1:49

Saved but in advance “in the first moment of her conception”!

Rom 3 refers to original sin and Mary was created without it

Mary highly extraordinary and privileged, no human has ever had a family relationship with God! Except Mary and she has three!

Only one “handmaid of the Lord”!

Luke 1:28 the Lord is with her!
Always with her!
In his miraculous conception
his birth
At the wedding Jn 2
On the cross!

Acts 7:48
Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet,

But in Mary for nine months!

King david has love of Mary!

Psalm 26:8
Lord, I have loved the habitation of thy house, and the place where thine honour dwelleth.


The holy church Exalts Mary to the glory of God!


Exalted dignity and prerogatives of the divine mother:

Mary is Filled with the plenitude of divine grace. Lk 1:28
Lord is with Mary. Lk 1:28
Blessed. Lk 1:28

Mother of our savior. Matt 2:11
Mother of our salvation. Lk 2:30
Found our salvation. Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation. Lk 1:38

My soul “existence” does magnify the Lord! Lk 1:46-47

Mary practices of the virtues of Jesus Christ. Prov. 31

The immaculate conception:
Gen 3:15 Lk 1:28 Song of Solomon 4:7 & 6:9-10 rev 12:1
Perpetual virginity: Isa 7:14 Matt 1:21-23 Lk 1:34
Divine maternity: Lk 1:43
Assumption: rev 12:1

All generations shall call me blessed! Lk 1:48

Actually this is an exultation of thanksgiving for having obtain thier eternal salvation!

Mary is the ark of the covenant and the temple of God, God consecrated and dwelt in Her for 9 months and cannot be used for a ordinary purpose, and it is God who glorified his dwelling!

Mary and all the saints obtained grace, virtues, and merits from God’s infinite goodness, mercy and love and their praises end in the glory of Christ the source of all grace and of God. Jn 1:16-17 Lk 1:49

Not by nature but by supernatural grace!

Mary and the saints are what God made them not according nature but by the supernatural grace of God!
Lk 1:49

Glory to God for His mighty works and grace and mercy in His saints!
2 thes 1:10

Mary found our salvation! Lk 1:30

You continue to post long Catholic traditioanl teachings.

Yes.....Mary was Saved because she believed upon Jesus as her Saviour. She was a sinner that needed the Saviour to pay for her sins as she was a sinner.

Romans 3:23.........
"ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

If you know of a Bible Scripture that excludes Mary......now would be the time to post it.

 

[Rodger]

The apostolic church has always believed and taught that Mary is

The mother of God:
(Jesus is divine, Mary is His mother)
The immaculate conception: (sinless)
Assumption:
(Crowned queen by God in heaven)
Perpetual virgin:
(No sex)

And even the original so -called reformers, until the hyper-fundamentalists of the 1800’s very few ever opposed these dogma’s!

Bound in heaven / bound on earth!
Apostles commanded by Christ to teach, we are bound to believe! Acts 16:17 show us the way of salvation!


——————-

The Bible says people are blessed Matt 5
Mary is blessed Lk 1:28
Do you know why?
All Generations of true Christians call her blessed. Lk 1:48
Also Lk 1:45 faithful

To a true the sweet name of our mother who gave birth “born again” to us is sweet, but to demons and false Christians is bitter. Mary is the air we breathe, as breathing is a sign of life so the frequent pronouncing the name of Mary is a sign of life of grace in Christ!

Mother of “fair love”

I want to be carful here as I do not want to be accused of being inaccurat or disrespect to you......
But this post is NOT accurate. It is however exactly what The Catholic church teaches but it is not Biblical.

The 1st church did not say that Mary was the mother of God.
"There was no fully general consensus before the Council of Ephesus. It was not taught by Tertullian, Origen or Jerome. But it was upheld by Irenaeus, the apocryphal writings(Not included in the Canon) of Clement of Alexandria, the Consultationes Zacchaei et Apollonii, and Gregory of Nyssa. ...From the 4th century on, her perpetual virginity is often mentioned."
Source: (Encyclopedia of Theology Edited by Karl Rahner, p. 896, article by Michael Schmaus, Burns & Oates, London, 1981)

The question of Mary being a virgin is not being discused. She was because the Bible states that she was.

Mary was NOT a perpetual virgin!
The earliest evidence for the teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin occurs in the writings of the early church father Jerome[1] who was born in A.D. 347 and died about A.D. 419. Prior to Jerome there is no evidence that the early church taught anything other than the scriptural record – that Jesus had siblings: flesh and blood brothers and sisters. Some have claimed that Origen was the first early father who wrote that Mary was a perpetual virgin, but a close examination of his statement reveals that is not true.

And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the first-fruit among men of the purity which consists in chastity, and Mary among women; for it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the first-fruit of virginity.[2]

His statement was simply that Jesus’ mother was a virgin, and not that she was a perpetual virgin.
Source: https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...he-belief-in-marys-perpetual-virginity-start/

You said.........
"Bound in heaven / bound on earth!
Apostles commanded by Christ to teach, we are bound to believe! Acts 16:17 show us the way of salvation!"

No sir. You have taken that out of context. I agree but that does not mean that we MUST accept what the Catholic church teahes. We must believe what the Bible actually says.

Mary is NOT the Co-Redimix of man. Mary has NO part in the salvation process except the part where she gave birth to Jesus the Christ.

 

[Rodger]

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17


The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

Let me see if I understand you:

Scripture? YES!

Actually believe scripture? NO!

AGAIN........a litany repeated Catholic teachings. I guess you are doing that to support those Catholic believers who are reading this and need to be encouraged.

I compliment you on being a dedicated Catholic believer. That does not make you correct, just misguided but of course that is your choice.

However, you are wasting you time doing this for my benefit !!!

Understand this simple, easy to comprend comment......... We are saved by the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ which is His death burial and resurrection and THE CHURCH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
By faith we believe in the gospel and the Gospel is found in the Bible the Word of God.

Romans 10:17 clearly says..........."Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"!

I always enjoy discussing these topics but "circular reasoning" and saying the same thing over and over is not acceptable.....to me.

 

[donadams]

That is a good analogy, and I agree to a point, however it does not apply to humans.
Humans you see are born with the freedom to choose and a sin nature. Inanimate objects do not, so then your example of Mary to Jesus does not apply.

If it did.......explain Adolf Hitler.
If it did.......explain Dennis Rader.
If it did.......explain Richard Cottingham.

Mary found our salvation Lk 1:30
Mary consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Mary brought forth our salvation Lk 2:7

None other

 

[donadams]

You continue to post long Catholic traditioanl teachings.

Yes.....Mary was Saved because she believed upon Jesus as her Saviour. She was a sinner that needed the Saviour to pay for her sins as she was a sinner.

Romans 3:23.........
"ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God".

If you know of a Bible Scripture that excludes Mary......now would be the time to post it.

Lk 1:49!

What things plural?

 

[donadams]

I want to be carful here as I do not want to be accused of being inaccurat or disrespect to you......
But this post is NOT accurate. It is however exactly what The Catholic church teaches but it is not Biblical.

The 1st church did not say that Mary was the mother of God.
"There was no fully general consensus before the Council of Ephesus. It was not taught by Tertullian, Origen or Jerome. But it was upheld by Irenaeus, the apocryphal writings(Not included in the Canon) of Clement of Alexandria, the Consultationes Zacchaei et Apollonii, and Gregory of Nyssa. ...From the 4th century on, her perpetual virginity is often mentioned."
Source: (Encyclopedia of Theology Edited by Karl Rahner, p. 896, article by Michael Schmaus, Burns & Oates, London, 1981)

The question of Mary being a virgin is not being discused. She was because the Bible states that she was.

Mary was NOT a perpetual virgin!
The earliest evidence for the teaching that Mary was a perpetual virgin occurs in the writings of the early church father Jerome[1] who was born in A.D. 347 and died about A.D. 419. Prior to Jerome there is no evidence that the early church taught anything other than the scriptural record – that Jesus had siblings: flesh and blood brothers and sisters. Some have claimed that Origen was the first early father who wrote that Mary was a perpetual virgin, but a close examination of his statement reveals that is not true.

And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the first-fruit among men of the purity which consists in chastity, and Mary among women; for it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the first-fruit of virginity.[2]

His statement was simply that Jesus’ mother was a virgin, and not that she was a perpetual virgin.
Source: https://www.neverthirsty.org/bible-...he-belief-in-marys-perpetual-virginity-start/

You said.........
"Bound in heaven / bound on earth!
Apostles commanded by Christ to teach, we are bound to believe! Acts 16:17 show us the way of salvation!"

No sir. You have taken that out of context. I agree but that does not mean that we MUST accept what the Catholic church teahes. We must believe what the Bible actually says.

Mary is NOT the Co-Redimix of man. Mary has NO part in the salvation process except the part where she gave birth to Jesus the Christ.

Mary consented to our salvation lk 1:38

Mother of God lk 1:43

Perpetual virgin lk 1:34

Are the 12 sons of Jacob brothers, siblings?

 

[Rodger]

Mary consented to our salvation lk 1:38

Mother of God lk 1:43

Perpetual virgin lk 1:34

Are the 12 sons of Jacob brothers, siblings?

Again....I complement on your faithfulness to the Catholic teaching that you have learned.

Now then, shall we actually read the Word of God in Luke 1:38........
"And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

When we actually read the Scripture we can easily see that it does not indicate that Mary ever said the words, “I consent,”.
Now, Every indication in Scripture is that Mary welcomed God’s plan and treasured her God-given task but that is not the point. YOU misquoted a Scripture so as to validate something you were taught that was not Biblical.

Now lets talk about the next Scripture you posted of Luke 1:43.........
"And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Again we see the same pattern of misquoting Scripture to validate a false narritive.
When we actually read the Bible we clearly see....The phrase Mother of God is not in Scripture.!!!
I am sure that you know that the Catholic church claims the Greek word in the text at Luke 1:43 is 'Adonai' (a title that in the OT only applies to Almighty God, the father).

However, that is incorrect because the Greek word in the earliest & most reliable MSS is 'Kurios' literally 'Lord', 'master' 'owner'. Thus Jesus in his illustration of the minas quoted the returning servants of there master as 'Lord' (Kurios).

Now listen.....I am not disgareeing with what Elizeth said, but I am disagreeing with the missapplication from the Catholic church that Mary gave birth to God when in fact Jesus has always existed. She delivered Jesus at His in carnation.

Now lets consider Luke 1:34 that you posted...........
"“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

Again x 3........we see that when we actually read the Bible the words , "Perpetual Virgin" are not found!
What a surprise. So again we see that you have followed and accepted the un-biblical teaching of the RCC.

YOU as a Catholic make a big deal out of this verse declaring it to be proof that Mary was informing Gabriel that she was a woman who had vowed to remain a virgin forever. BUT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT AT ALL!

Please allow me to post for you Mary's literal words in the Greek original..........
"εἶπεν δὲ Μαριὰμ πρὸς τὸν ἄγγελον Πῶς ἔσται τοῦτο ἐπεὶ ἄνδρα οὐ γινώσκω" = in English
"But Mary said to the angel, How will this happen, seeing as I know not man?"

AGAIN, what I have detailed and shown without question, details that No Catholic uses any Scripture as the 'foundation' of any doctrine, since the Catholic faith once delivered to the saints precedes Scripture.
The Catholic Church precedes Scripture which is exactly what you are showing us here.

By definition, therefore, any truth of the faith will not have its 'origin' in the words of Scripture. Scripture only corroborates or fleshes out or nourishes our understanding of an already held false belief. It's not where the belief 'came from,' whole or in part.

But I can see how a 'glean Christianity from the pages of Scripture alone' standard would lead to a rejection of many doctrines. When Catholics use the term 'Scriptural foundation' they mean 'Scriptural support,' 'corroboration' or 'vindication' (i.e. that the faith is not at odds, as is claimed, with Scripture, but rather witnessed to by something in the written Word).

Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you and Please, post more Scripture so that I can correctly speak to that Scripture.

 

[donadams]

AGAIN........a litany repeated Catholic teachings. I guess you are doing that to support those Catholic believers who are reading this and need to be encouraged.

I compliment you on being a dedicated Catholic believer. That does not make you correct, just misguided but of course that is your choice.

However, you are wasting you time doing this for my benefit !!!

Understand this simple, easy to comprend comment......... We are saved by the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ which is His death burial and resurrection and THE CHURCH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.
By faith we believe in the gospel and the Gospel is found in the Bible the Word of God.

Romans 10:17 clearly says..........."Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God"!

I always enjoy discussing these topics but "circular reasoning" and saying the same thing over and over is not acceptable.....to me.

(If not christ and his church)

What is the source of truth?
Or the rule of Christian faith?

 

[donadams]

A

Again....I complement on your faithfulness to the Catholic teaching that you have learned.

Now then, shall we actually read the Word of God in Luke 1:38........
"And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

When we actually read the Scripture we can easily see that it does not indicate that Mary ever said the words, “I consent,”.
Now, Every indication in Scripture is that Mary welcomed God’s plan and treasured her God-given task but that is not the point. YOU misquoted a Scripture so as to validate something you were taught that was not Biblical.

Now lets talk about the next Scripture you posted of Luke 1:43.........
"And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Again we see the same pattern of misquoting Scripture to validate a false narritive.
When we actually read the Bible we clearly see....The phrase Mother of God is not in Scripture.!!!
I am sure that you know that the Catholic church claims the Greek word in the text at Luke 1:43 is 'Adonai' (a title that in the OT only applies to Almighty God, the father).

However, that is incorrect because the Greek word in the earliest & most reliable MSS is 'Kurios' literally 'Lord', 'master' 'owner'. Thus Jesus in his illustration of the minas quoted the returning servants of there master as 'Lord' (Kurios).

Now listen.....I am not disgareeing with what Elizeth said, but I am disagreeing with the missapplication from the Catholic church that Mary gave birth to God when in fact Jesus has always existed. She delivered Jesus at His in carnation.

Now lets consider Luke 1:34 that you posted...........
"“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

Again x 3........we see that when we actually read the Bible the words , "Perpetual Virgin" are not found!
What a surprise. So again we see that you have followed and accepted the un-biblical teaching of the RCC.

YOU as a Catholic make a big deal out of this verse declaring it to be proof that Mary was informing Gabriel that she was a woman who had vowed to remain a virgin forever. BUT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT AT ALL!

Please allow me to post for you Mary's literal words in the Greek original..........
"εἶπεν δὲ Μαριὰμ πρὸς τὸν ἄγγελον Πῶς ἔσται τοῦτο ἐπεὶ ἄνδρα οὐ γινώσκω" = in English
"But Mary said to the angel, How will this happen, seeing as I know not man?"

AGAIN, what I have detailed and shown without question, details that No Catholic uses any Scripture as the 'foundation' of any doctrine, since the Catholic faith once delivered to the saints precedes Scripture.
The Catholic Church precedes Scripture which is exactly what you are showing us here.

By definition, therefore, any truth of the faith will not have its 'origin' in the words of Scripture. Scripture only corroborates or fleshes out or nourishes our understanding of an already held false belief. It's not where the belief 'came from,' whole or in part.

But I can see how a 'glean Christianity from the pages of Scripture alone' standard would lead to a rejection of many doctrines. When Catholics use the term 'Scriptural foundation' they mean 'Scriptural support,' 'corroboration' or 'vindication' (i.e. that the faith is not at odds, as is claimed, with Scripture, but rather witnessed to by something in the written Word).

Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you and Please, post more Scripture so that I can correctly speak to that Scripture.

As usual Protestant or whatever sect you adhere to says ((scripture alone)) then we quote scripture and you don’t believe it!

You don’t believe “faith alone”
“Scripture alone”!
“christ alone”!
“Grace alone”!
“Glory to God alone”!

I’m sure not going to believe such contradictory errors

Thks

 

[donadams]

Again....I complement on your faithfulness to the Catholic teaching that you have learned.

Now then, shall we actually read the Word of God in Luke 1:38........
"And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

When we actually read the Scripture we can easily see that it does not indicate that Mary ever said the words, “I consent,”.
Now, Every indication in Scripture is that Mary welcomed God’s plan and treasured her God-given task but that is not the point. YOU misquoted a Scripture so as to validate something you were taught that was not Biblical.

Now lets talk about the next Scripture you posted of Luke 1:43.........
"And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?

Again we see the same pattern of misquoting Scripture to validate a false narritive.
When we actually read the Bible we clearly see....The phrase Mother of God is not in Scripture.!!!
I am sure that you know that the Catholic church claims the Greek word in the text at Luke 1:43 is 'Adonai' (a title that in the OT only applies to Almighty God, the father).

However, that is incorrect because the Greek word in the earliest & most reliable MSS is 'Kurios' literally 'Lord', 'master' 'owner'. Thus Jesus in his illustration of the minas quoted the returning servants of there master as 'Lord' (Kurios).

Now listen.....I am not disgareeing with what Elizeth said, but I am disagreeing with the missapplication from the Catholic church that Mary gave birth to God when in fact Jesus has always existed. She delivered Jesus at His in carnation.

Now lets consider Luke 1:34 that you posted...........
"“How will this be,” Mary asked the angel, “since I am a virgin?”

Again x 3........we see that when we actually read the Bible the words , "Perpetual Virgin" are not found!
What a surprise. So again we see that you have followed and accepted the un-biblical teaching of the RCC.

YOU as a Catholic make a big deal out of this verse declaring it to be proof that Mary was informing Gabriel that she was a woman who had vowed to remain a virgin forever. BUT IT DOES NOT SAY THAT AT ALL!

Please allow me to post for you Mary's literal words in the Greek original..........
"εἶπεν δὲ Μαριὰμ πρὸς τὸν ἄγγελον Πῶς ἔσται τοῦτο ἐπεὶ ἄνδρα οὐ γινώσκω" = in English
"But Mary said to the angel, How will this happen, seeing as I know not man?"

AGAIN, what I have detailed and shown without question, details that No Catholic uses any Scripture as the 'foundation' of any doctrine, since the Catholic faith once delivered to the saints precedes Scripture.
The Catholic Church precedes Scripture which is exactly what you are showing us here.

By definition, therefore, any truth of the faith will not have its 'origin' in the words of Scripture. Scripture only corroborates or fleshes out or nourishes our understanding of an already held false belief. It's not where the belief 'came from,' whole or in part.

But I can see how a 'glean Christianity from the pages of Scripture alone' standard would lead to a rejection of many doctrines. When Catholics use the term 'Scriptural foundation' they mean 'Scriptural support,' 'corroboration' or 'vindication' (i.e. that the faith is not at odds, as is claimed, with Scripture, but rather witnessed to by something in the written Word).

Thanks for the opportunity to speak with you and Please, post more Scripture so that I can correctly speak to that Scripture.

The angel was sent by God to obtain Her consent

Just as Eve consented and participated in the fall

Who is Elizabeth’s Lord?

Thks

 

[donadams]

Spiritual Anarchy!

No one between me and Christ!

Then you do not have Christ and are not a Christian in His new covenant church / kingdom cos you must enter by initiation of those who are in the covenant and who administer the kingdom and govern the holy church founded by Christ!

Jn 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Acts 16:17
The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

But you don’t need anyone else?

(New covenant has an ordained priestly ministry)

Mk 3:14
Matt 22:14
Jn 15:16
Acts 14:23
Acts 16:4
1 cor 9:14
1 Tim 2:7

(Sent by Christ with His authority)

Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21

(Forgive mens sins / reconcile)

Jn 20:23
2 cor 5:18

(Ministry)

Mal 1:11
Acts 1:8
acts 1:15-26
Acts 2:38-39
Rom 15:16
1 Tim 3:1-2
1 Tim 4:14
Phil 1:1
James 5:14

God always establishes peace and order in His kingdom by obedience to the hierarchical authority of the fathers who care for our souls!

Jn 20:21
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Lk 22:29
29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Matthew 13:11
He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

1 cor 4:1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Matt 28:19 teach & sanctify all men unto eternal salvation.

Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, (apostles) who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, (apostles) and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

Obedience of the faithful Christians as opposed to spiritual anarchy!

 

[donadams]

The church is an extension of Christ!

The scripture says many of the same things of the apostolic church as it does Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 acts 3:22 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32 and the only means of salvation! Matt 28:19
acts 16:17


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

 

[GodsGrace]

I think the gospel is very simplistic yet many use it and come up with sort sorts of stories and doctrines. I would say at least 90% of what christians agrue about is not even salavation related anyhow so its not rewlly an issue.

Just an example someone thinks Mary was ever virgin and pure and someone else thinks she had other children after Jesus, that belief does not save anyone or condemn anyone, so its not really a major issue in my opinion. Most things people argue are not problems. Sometimes there is not even enough info or clarification in the scriptures to know something for certain and people will argue it but its not an issue anyhow.

It's not so easy Corn Pop.
If we can make up our own doctrine.....a truth doctrine....then there is NO TRUTH !

Now let's take OSAS for instance.
I'll pick this because there are some verses that make it seem that it might be true,
and there are some verses that speak clearly against it.

So how can we know if OSAS is a correct doctrine?

How do we trust only the bible if you and I are fairly intelligent persons and we cannot agree?

My feeling is that there must be a source that is different from the bible, but with almost the same authority.
That authority, for me, would be the ECFs.

I have no idea who else to go to.
How do YOU reconcile a concept that cannot be agreed upon by 2 Christians?