Call No Man Father

[Rodger]

The angel was sent by God to obtain Her consent

Just as Eve consented and participated in the fall

Who is Elizabeth’s Lord?

Thks

My dear friend.........Please, Please post the Scripture that says the angel was sent by God to get Mary's consent!!!!

My I tell you what the Scriptures ACTUALLY say in Luke 1:35.......
" And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God."

When we read the Scriptures we clearly see that the angel TOLD Mary what was going to happen. There is NO suggestion that he was asking Mary anything.

Mary then said......
"Mary says, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word."

These are words of humility and acceptance. Every indication in Scripture is that Mary welcomed God’s plan and treasured her God-given task but That in NO way indicates that there was any asking for her consent.

Then you said...........
"Just as Eve consented and participated in the fall".
Holy cow! Where in the Bible can I find that?????

Again, when we read that account we see that Satan came to Eve as a serpent and tempted her and suggested to the woman that God had not really forbidden the fruit for her good but was rather keeping good from her (Genesis 3:1–4). So disobeyed God and she ate it and gave some to Adam (Genesis 3:5). Adam also ate it, and in that moment everything changed. Sin had entered into God’s perfect world (Romans 5:12). Mankind had fallen.
NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS THERE A SUGGESTION THAT SHE "CONSENTED" .

If you had read the account in Luke1 you would have see that Elizabeth was a godly woman, “walking blamelessly in all the statutes and commandments of the Lord” (Luke 1:6). She was married to Zechariah who was a priest. Notice that Elizabeth confesses Jesus as her Lord. Thomas confessed Jesus as “My Lord and my God” after the resurrection (John 20:28). But Elizabeth calls Jesus her Lord before he is even born!
She knew that because the Holy Spirit revealed it to her.

Thanks for the questions. This is becomeing a really good Sunday School class!

 

[Rodger]

A

As usual Protestant or whatever sect you adhere to says ((scripture alone)) then we quote scripture and you don’t believe it!

You don’t believe “faith alone”
“Scripture alone”!
“christ alone”!
“Grace alone”!
“Glory to God alone”!

I’m sure not going to believe such contradictory errors

Thks

Actually I am a Protestanr, born again believer who is a member of a Baptist church!

Actuall I do believe in SOLA SCRIPTURA is as true today as it was in 1559 my dear friend.

 

[Corn Pop]

It's not so easy Corn Pop.
If we can make up our own doctrine.....a truth doctrine....then there is NO TRUTH !

Now let's take OSAS for instance.
I'll pick this because there are some verses that make it seem that it might be true,
and there are some verses that speak clearly against it.

So how can we know if OSAS is a correct doctrine?

How do we trust only the bible if you and I are fairly intelligent persons and we cannot agree?

My feeling is that there must be a source that is different from the bible, but with almost the same authority.
That authority, for me, would be the ECFs.

I have no idea who else to go to.
How do YOU reconcile a concept that cannot be agreed upon by 2 Christians?

I took a guess and said about 90% what people disagree with within many denominataions is not a salvation issuse and is not a problem like general stoeues within the new testament. You have used a salvation issue as an example OSAS but i wasnt talking about that.

Was Mary ever virgin or not. Not really a issue. I dont think the aspotles went around preaching Mary and her story. Many who become Christian and the churches the apostles preached to probably didnt even know Mary or even heard of her.

 

[Rodger]

(If not christ and his church)

What is the source of truth?
Or the rule of Christian faith?

You see....right here is the root of our differences.

I read, understand and accept the written Word of God over and above the words and teachings of any church or man.

That being the case .........you asked me.......
"What is the source of truth"???

My dear friend, Truth is that which is consistent with the mind, will, character, glory, and being of God.

Christ Himself said...........When Jesus said of Himself, “I am…the truth” in John 14:6.

Jesus also said that the written Word of God is truth. It does not merely contain nuggets of truth; it is pure, unchangeable, and inviolable truth that (according to Jesus) “cannot be broken” (John 10:35).

John 17:17........."Your word is truth”!

The written Word of God.

I can not express my thanks to you for your questions and allowing me to teach the Word of God. What a blessing.

 

[Rodger]

I took a guess and said about 90% what people disagree with within many denominataions is not a salvation issuse and is not a problem like general stoeues within the new testament. You have used a salvation issue as an example OSAS but i wasnt talking about that.

Was Mary ever virgin or not. Not really a issue. I dont think the aspotles went around preaching Mary and her story. Many who become Christian and the churches the apostles preached to probably didnt even know Mary or even heard of her.

May I say to you my dear friend that in the Bible there One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, in Luke 11:27.......
“Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed”.

Now, there was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? In Luke 11:28 He said.......
"On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it”.

According to Jesus, God in the flesh speaking said that obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Savior.

I would encourage you who are Catholic to read that very prayerfully and carefully and consider it when compared to the veneration/adoration given to Mary today.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus or anyone else direct any praise, glory, veneration, attention or adoration toward Mary.

 

[Corn Pop]

May I say to you my dear friend that in the Bible there One time when Jesus was speaking, a woman in the crowd proclaimed, in Luke 11:27.......
“Blessed is the womb that bore You and the breasts at which You nursed”.

Now, there was never a better opportunity for Jesus to declare that Mary was indeed worthy of praise and adoration. What was Jesus’ response? In Luke 11:28 He said.......
"On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it”.

According to Jesus, God in the flesh speaking said that obedience to God’s Word was more important than being the woman who gave birth to the Savior.

I would encourage you who are Catholic to read that very prayerfully and carefully and consider it when compared to the veneration/adoration given to Mary today.

Nowhere in Scripture does Jesus or anyone else direct any praise, glory, veneration, attention or adoration toward Mary

I dont identify as a catholic. I also think she maybe had other children besides Jesus so i dont stand firm she was ever virgin like most catholics believe.

I believe she gave birth to Christ as a virgin. She was chosen and blessed. Thats about all.

As you said in Luke someone said to Jesus "blessed is the woman who gave birth to you", and he said blessed are those who hear the word of God and obverse it.


The only woman in the gospels who Jesus acknowledged was the one who annointed him and he said her name should be remembred always, yet how often does the Church acknowledge her?

"Truely i say to you, whever this gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will also be told in memory of her."

 

[Rodger]

I dont identify as a catholic. I also think she maybe had other children besides Jesus so i dont stand firm she was ever virgin like most catholics believe.

I believe she gave birth to Christ as a virgin. She was chosen and blessed. Thats about all.

As you said in Luke someone said to Jesus "blessed is the woman who gave birth to you", and he said blessed are those who hear the word of God and obverse it.


The only woman in the gospels who Jesus acknowledged was the one who annointed him and he said her name should be remembred always, yet how often does the Church acknowledge her?

"Truely i say to you, whever this gospel is proclaimed in the whole world, what she has done will also be told in memory of her."

Pop.....I can assure you had Mary had several other children with Joseph. FOUR boys and at least TWO girls.

Mark 6:3 records people becoming angry with Jesus when He taught in His hometown. They rejected Him as a prophet and responded, .....
“‘Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?’ And they took offense at him.”

"Sisters" - more than one.

John 2:12 gives us another hint as we answer the question of whether Mary had other children: .....
“After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples.”

The Catholic claim is that those "brothers are His cousins". Mother and brothers, used as a phrase, implies a familial relationship. Scripture gives us no reason to think these were not the biological children of Mary.

Efforts by the Catholic Church to prove that Mary remained a perpetual virgin are not based on Scripture, but on a misguided allegiance to a woman who was as fallible as any other human being.

 

[donadams]

My dear friend.........Please, Please post the Scripture that says the angel was sent by God to get Mary's consent!!!!

My I tell you what the Scriptures ACTUALLY say in Luke 1:35.......
" And the angel answered her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy—the Son of God."

When we read the Scriptures we clearly see that the angel TOLD Mary what was going to happen. There is NO suggestion that he was asking Mary anything.

Mary then said......
"Mary says, "Behold, I am the handmaid of the Lord. May it be done to me according to your word."

These are words of humility and acceptance. Every indication in Scripture is that Mary welcomed God’s plan and treasured her God-given task but That in NO way indicates that there was any asking for her consent.

Then you said...........
"Just as Eve consented and participated in the fall".
Holy cow! Where in the Bible can I find that?????

Again, when we read that account we see that Satan came to Eve as a serpent and tempted her and suggested to the woman that God had not really forbidden the fruit for her good but was rather keeping good from her (Genesis 3:1–4). So disobeyed God and she ate it and gave some to Adam (Genesis 3:5). Adam also ate it, and in that moment everything changed. Sin had entered into God’s perfect world (Romans 5:12). Mankind had fallen.
NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE IS THERE A SUGGESTION THAT SHE "CONSENTED" .

If you had read the account in Luke1 you would have see that Elizabeth was a godly woman, “walking blamelessly in all the statutes and commandments of the Lord” (Luke 1:6). She was married to Zechariah who was a priest. Notice that Elizabeth confesses Jesus as her Lord. Thomas confessed Jesus as “My Lord and my God” after the resurrection (John 20:28). But Elizabeth calls Jesus her Lord before he is even born!
She knew that because the Holy Spirit revealed it to her.

Thanks for the questions. This is becomeing a really good Sunday School class!

We believe in the divinity of Christ!

Jesus is God
Mary is His mother
Hence Mary is the “mother of God”

Theotokos the God bearer!

Study the OT especially exodus and you will see even the utensils in the service of God MUST be holy and covered in gold and used only for His service!

Mary is pure holy immaculate
Covered in the gold of supernatural charity and consecrated or dedicated only to His service not to have other children as good as that is!

Why else would God send his angel directly to Mary? What purpose?

You said she accepted wilhich is the same as consented

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Sinless Virgin!

Consent & obedience of Mary!

Testimony of the early church in the successors of the apostles! Verified by acts 2:42 acts 1:8

JUSTIN MARTYR
“[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).

IRENAEUS
“Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.’ Eve, however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey. Just as she, who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband—for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they first come to maturity before beginning to multiply—having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith” (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).

“The Lord then was manifestly coming to his own things, and was sustaining them by means of that creation that is supported by himself. He was making a recapitulation of that disobedience that had occurred in connection with a tree, through the obedience that was upon a tree [i.e., the cross]. Furthermore, the original deception was to be done away with—the deception by which that virgin Eve (who was already espoused to a man) was unhappily misled. That this was to be overturned was happily announced through means of the truth by the angel to the Virgin Mary (who was also [espoused] to a man). . . . So if Eve disobeyed God, yet Mary was persuaded to be obedient to God. In this way, the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so it is rescued by a virgin. Virginal disobedience has been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in the same way, the sin of the first created man received amendment by the correction of the First-Begotten” (ibid., 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).
TERTULLIAN
“And again, lest I depart from my argumentation on the name of Adam: Why is Christ called Adam by the apostle [Paul], if as man he was not of that earthly origin? But even reason defends this conclusion, that God recovered his image and likeness by a procedure similar to that in which he had been robbed of it by the devil. It was while Eve was still a virgin that the word of the devil crept in to erect an edifice of death. Likewise through a virgin the Word of God was introduced to set up a structure of life. Thus what had been laid waste in ruin by this sex was by the same sex reestablished in salvation. Eve had believed the serpent; Mary believed Gabriel. That which the one destroyed by believing, the other, by believing, set straight” (The Flesh of Christ 17:4 [A.D. 210].
PSEUDO-MELITO
“If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Savior [Jesus]: ‘Be it done according to your will’” (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2–17 [A.D. 300]).
EPHRAIM THE SYRIAN
“You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]).
AMBROSE OF MILAN
“Mary’s life should be for you a pictorial image of virginity. Her life is like a mirror reflecting the face of chastity and the form of virtue. Therein you may find a model for your own life . . . showing what to improve, what to imitate, what to hold fast to” (The Virgins 2:2:6 [A.D. 377]).

“The first thing which kindles ardor in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater [to teach by example] than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing of words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have goodwill towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue. When did she pain her parents even by a look? When did she disagree with her neighbors? When did she despise the lowly? When did she avoid the needy?” (ibid., 2:2:7).

“Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22–30 [A.D. 387]).
AUGUSTINE
“Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in the defection of both” (Christian Combat 22:24 [A.D. 396]).

“That one woman is both mother and virgin, not in spirit only but even in body. In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Savior himself—of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom—but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head” (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]).

…

“Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins—for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?—so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?” (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).
TIMOTHY OF JERUSALEM
“Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption” (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).
JOHN THE THEOLOGIAN
“[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]).

“And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise” (ibid.).
GREGORY OF TOURS
“The course of this life having been completed by blessed Mary, when now she would be called from the world, all the apostles came together from their various regions to her house. And when they had heard that she was about to be taken from the world, they kept watch together with her. And behold, the Lord Jesus came with his angels, and, taking her soul, he gave it over to the angel Michael and withdrew. At daybreak, however, the apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb, and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; the holy body having been received, he commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise, where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary’s body] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones and is in the enjoyment of the good of an eternity that will never end” (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 584]).

“But Mary, the glorious Mother of Christ, who is believed to be a virgin both before and after she bore him, has, as we said above, been translated into paradise, amid the singing of the angelic choirs, whither the Lord preceded her” (ibid., 1:8).

 

[donadams]

Actually I am a Protestanr, born again believer who is a member of a Baptist church!

Actuall I do believe in SOLA SCRIPTURA is as true today as it was in 1559 my dear friend.

Are you a reformed Baptist?

Where is that in scripture?
Where does scripture say that men can perform a reformation?

Scripture actually says tho obey and believe CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH!

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17


The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

 

[donadams]

Actually I am a Protestanr, born again believer who is a member of a Baptist church!

Actuall I do believe in SOLA SCRIPTURA is as true today as it was in 1559 my dear friend.

How does a man become born again?

Can a man be saved without a priest?

Thks

 

[Rodger]

We believe in the divinity of Christ!

Jesus is God
Mary is His mother
Hence Mary is the “mother of God”

Theotokos the God bearer!

Study the OT especially exodus and you will see even the utensils in the service of God MUST be holy and covered in gold and used only for His service!

Mary is pure holy immaculate
Covered in the gold of supernatural charity and consecrated or dedicated only to His service not to have other children as good as that is!

Why else would God send his angel directly to Mary? What purpose?

You said she accepted wilhich is the same as consented

Thanks

I also so believe in the divinity of Christ.

A also accept the Bible fact that Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Mary as the "Mother of God" is NOT Biblical as I already posted that there is not one single Scripture to sporrt that. That is strictly a Catholic tradition.
You see, what you fail to recognize or fail to accept, is that the term...“Mother of God” implies that God somehow has His origin in Mary, which implies that she is somehow divine. That has led to the false teaching of the Catholic church that Mary is then the Co-Redeemer. This is not possible because God being the Creator of all things in heaven and on earth had no mother and did not need to have one.

There is NOT ONE single Scripture anywhere in the Bible that says or suggests that Mary was holy and immaculate. Again, that is totally a Catholic dogma that you believe. It is not Biblical and I am a Biblicist!
Being a devout Catholic, it will be very hard for you to grasp that.

You did not post One single Scripture to support your claim...NOT ONE and therefor what you post is only your opinion and actually means nothing to those who actually READ the Bible.

 

[Rodger]

Sinless Virgin!

Consent & obedience of Mary!

Testimony of the early church in the successors of the apostles! Verified by acts 2:42 acts 1:8

JUSTIN MARTYR
“[Jesus] became man by the Virgin so that the course which was taken by disobedience in the beginning through the agency of the serpent might be also the very course by which it would be put down. Eve, a virgin and undefiled, conceived the word of the serpent and bore disobedience and death. But the Virgin Mary received faith and joy when the angel Gabriel announced to her the glad tidings that the Spirit of the Lord would come upon her and the power of the Most High would overshadow her, for which reason the Holy One being born of her is the Son of God. And she replied ‘Be it done unto me according to your word’ [Luke 1:38]” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 100 [A.D. 155]).

IRENAEUS
“Consequently, then, Mary the Virgin is found to be obedient, saying, ‘Behold, O Lord, your handmaid; be it done to me according to your word.’ Eve, however, was disobedient, and, when yet a virgin, she did not obey. Just as she, who was then still a virgin although she had Adam for a husband—for in paradise they were both naked but were not ashamed; for, having been created only a short time, they had no understanding of the procreation of children, and it was necessary that they first come to maturity before beginning to multiply—having become disobedient, was made the cause of death for herself and for the whole human race; so also Mary, betrothed to a man but nevertheless still a virgin, being obedient, was made the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race. . . . Thus, the knot of Eve’s disobedience was loosed by the obedience of Mary. What the virgin Eve had bound in unbelief, the Virgin Mary loosed through faith” (Against Heresies 3:22:24 [A.D. 189]).

“The Lord then was manifestly coming to his own things, and was sustaining them by means of that creation that is supported by himself. He was making a recapitulation of that disobedience that had occurred in connection with a tree, through the obedience that was upon a tree [i.e., the cross]. Furthermore, the original deception was to be done away with—the deception by which that virgin Eve (who was already espoused to a man) was unhappily misled. That this was to be overturned was happily announced through means of the truth by the angel to the Virgin Mary (who was also [espoused] to a man). . . . So if Eve disobeyed God, yet Mary was persuaded to be obedient to God. In this way, the Virgin Mary might become the advocate of the virgin Eve. And thus, as the human race fell into bondage to death by means of a virgin, so it is rescued by a virgin. Virginal disobedience has been balanced in the opposite scale by virginal obedience. For in the same way, the sin of the first created man received amendment by the correction of the First-Begotten” (ibid., 5:19:1 [A.D. 189]).
TERTULLIAN
“And again, lest I depart from my argumentation on the name of Adam: Why is Christ called Adam by the apostle [Paul], if as man he was not of that earthly origin? But even reason defends this conclusion, that God recovered his image and likeness by a procedure similar to that in which he had been robbed of it by the devil. It was while Eve was still a virgin that the word of the devil crept in to erect an edifice of death. Likewise through a virgin the Word of God was introduced to set up a structure of life. Thus what had been laid waste in ruin by this sex was by the same sex reestablished in salvation. Eve had believed the serpent; Mary believed Gabriel. That which the one destroyed by believing, the other, by believing, set straight” (The Flesh of Christ 17:4 [A.D. 210].
PSEUDO-MELITO
“If therefore it might come to pass by the power of your grace, it has appeared right to us your servants that, as you, having overcome death, do reign in glory, so you should raise up the body of your Mother and take her with you, rejoicing, into heaven. Then said the Savior [Jesus]: ‘Be it done according to your will’” (The Passing of the Virgin 16:2–17 [A.D. 300]).
EPHRAIM THE SYRIAN
“You alone and your Mother are more beautiful than any others, for there is no blemish in you nor any stains upon your Mother. Who of my children can compare in beauty to these?” (Nisibene Hymns 27:8 [A.D. 361]).
AMBROSE OF MILAN
“Mary’s life should be for you a pictorial image of virginity. Her life is like a mirror reflecting the face of chastity and the form of virtue. Therein you may find a model for your own life . . . showing what to improve, what to imitate, what to hold fast to” (The Virgins 2:2:6 [A.D. 377]).

“The first thing which kindles ardor in learning is the greatness of the teacher. What is greater [to teach by example] than the Mother of God? What more glorious than she whom Glory Itself chose? What more chaste than she who bore a body without contact with another body? For why should I speak of her other virtues? She was a virgin not only in body but also in mind, who stained the sincerity of its disposition by no guile, who was humble in heart, grave in speech, prudent in mind, sparing of words, studious in reading, resting her hope not on uncertain riches, but on the prayer of the poor, intent on work, modest in discourse; wont to seek not man but God as the judge of her thoughts, to injure no one, to have goodwill towards all, to rise up before her elders, not to envy her equals, to avoid boastfulness, to follow reason, to love virtue. When did she pain her parents even by a look? When did she disagree with her neighbors? When did she despise the lowly? When did she avoid the needy?” (ibid., 2:2:7).

“Come, then, and search out your sheep, not through your servants or hired men, but do it yourself. Lift me up bodily and in the flesh, which is fallen in Adam. Lift me up not from Sarah but from Mary, a virgin not only undefiled, but a virgin whom grace had made inviolate, free of every stain of sin” (Commentary on Psalm 118:22–30 [A.D. 387]).
AUGUSTINE
“Our Lord . . . was not averse to males, for he took the form of a male, nor to females, for of a female he was born. Besides, there is a great mystery here: that just as death comes to us through a woman, life is born to us through a woman; that the devil, defeated, would be tormented by each nature, feminine and masculine, as he had taken delight in the defection of both” (Christian Combat 22:24 [A.D. 396]).

“That one woman is both mother and virgin, not in spirit only but even in body. In spirit she is mother, not of our head, who is our Savior himself—of whom all, even she herself, are rightly called children of the bridegroom—but plainly she is the mother of us who are his members, because by love she has cooperated so that the faithful, who are the members of that head, might be born in the Church. In body, indeed, she is the Mother of that very head” (Holy Virginity 6:6 [A.D. 401]).

…

“Having excepted the holy Virgin Mary, concerning whom, on account of the honor of the Lord, I wish to have absolutely no question when treating of sins—for how do we know what abundance of grace for the total overcoming of sin was conferred upon her, who merited to conceive and bear him in whom there was no sin?—so, I say, with the exception of the Virgin, if we could have gathered together all those holy men and women, when they were living here, and had asked them whether they were without sin, what do we suppose would have been their answer?” (Nature and Grace 36:42 [A.D. 415]).
TIMOTHY OF JERUSALEM
“Therefore the Virgin is immortal to this day, seeing that he who had dwelt in her transported her to the regions of her assumption” (Homily on Simeon and Anna [A.D. 400]).
JOHN THE THEOLOGIAN
“[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]).

“And from that time forth all knew that the spotless and precious body had been transferred to paradise” (ibid.).
GREGORY OF TOURS
“The course of this life having been completed by blessed Mary, when now she would be called from the world, all the apostles came together from their various regions to her house. And when they had heard that she was about to be taken from the world, they kept watch together with her. And behold, the Lord Jesus came with his angels, and, taking her soul, he gave it over to the angel Michael and withdrew. At daybreak, however, the apostles took up her body on a bier and placed it in a tomb, and they guarded it, expecting the Lord to come. And behold, again the Lord stood by them; the holy body having been received, he commanded that it be taken in a cloud into paradise, where now, rejoined to the soul, [Mary’s body] rejoices with the Lord’s chosen ones and is in the enjoyment of the good of an eternity that will never end” (Eight Books of Miracles 1:4 [A.D. 584]).

“But Mary, the glorious Mother of Christ, who is believed to be a virgin both before and after she bore him, has, as we said above, been translated into paradise, amid the singing of the angelic choirs, whither the Lord preceded her” (ibid., 1:8).

Why too much to read in a post.

Over powering info in posts such as this means that you do not want it to be read and discussed.

 

[Rodger]

How does a man become born again?

Can a man be saved without a priest?

Thks

Really!

This is exactly the root of the differences between Catholics and Protestants.

We are encouraged, directed and expected to READ the Bible. YOU do not! IF you did you would not ask such a question.

How does a man become born again you ask????

Reading the Bible we find in John 3:3..........
"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

The phrase translated “born again” can also be translated as “born from above.” We are PHYSICALLY born of a woman the 1st time. We have to be born SPIRITUALLY from God by faith in Jesus as the Christ which is to be Born Again.

WHY????..........As I have said to you,..... “For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23). "ALL" means every single human being without exception!
ALL humans are Sinners and are spiritually “dead”; until they receive spiritual life through faith in Christ, the Bible likens it to a rebirth. Only those who are born again have their sins forgiven and have a relationship with God.

Ephesians 2:1-2.......
"And you hath he saved, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience".

You asked.......
"Can a man be saved without a Priest?"

YES!
Now remember my friend. You are a CAtholic and you understand and respond to what the Catholic church has told you because you have not read and studied the Word of God.

On the other hand I have read, studied and preached the Word of God and it being my authority, I can say to you that The concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. First, the New Testament does not teach that there are to be priests in the New Covenant. Instead, the New Testament teaches that all believers are priests.

In the Old Covenant, the faithful Jews had to approach God through the priests. The priests were mediators between the people and God. The priests offered sacrifices to God on behalf of the people. That is no longer necessary. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we can now approach God’s throne with boldness (Hebrews 4:16) on an INDIVIDUAL BASIS.

We can approach God directly, ourselves, without the use of a human mediator. Why? Because Jesus Christ is our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21) and the only mediator between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5). The New Testament teaches that there are to be elders (1 Timothy 3:1-7; Titus 1:6-9), deacons (1 Timothy 3:8-13), and pastors (Ephesians 4:11) – but not priests.

Again....May the Lord bless you for the question you ask me. You have allowed me to teach the Word of God to the world via the internet and it is my prayer that someone reading all of this will learn and come to Christ!

THANK YOU!

 

[Rodger]

Are you a reformed Baptist?

Where is that in scripture?
Where does scripture say that men can perform a reformation?

Scripture actually says tho obey and believe CHRIST AND HIS CHURCH!

We must believe and obey both Christ and the church He founded on the apostles (Matt 16:18-19) to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

(Not scripture alone)
Sacred Scripture according to the churches cannon and interpretation? Yes!
Scripture alone? No!

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things by, by whom also he made the worlds;

“Not by scripture alone”!

That’s the nail in the coffin of “Sola scriptura” it is dead and buried, “false doctrine” the doctrine of demons like all the sola’s!


For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. Jn 1:17

Jesus Christ is the way, the truth, and the life! Jn 14:6

And this extends to His apostolic church, Christ and His church are one and inseparable! Acts 9:4 Jn 15:5 eph 5:32 acts 2:42

One shepherd and one fold! Jn 10:16

The truth of the Christian faith and the church are of divine origin and cannot be reformed!

Jesus Christ is the Light of the world! Jn 8:12
Apostolic church the light of the world! Matt 5:14

Must Hear Jesus Christ! Matt 17:5
Acts 3:23
Must Hear the apostolic church! Matt 18:17 1 Jn 4:6

Authority of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:17
Authority of the apostles! Jn 20:21

Jesus Christ has Reconciliation!
2 cor 5:19
Apostles have ministry of Reconciliation! 2 cor 5:18

Jesus Christ have power to forgive mens sins! Lk 5:20 Jn
Apostles have power to forgive mens sins! Jn 20:23

Jesus Christ is the truth! Jn 14:6
The apostolic church is the pillar of truth! 1 Tim 3:16

For the apostolic authority in Holy church decided and decreed (bound on earth / bound in heaven) the canon of Scripture, and is the only authentic interpreter of scripture!

The Christian faith is revealed by Christ!

Jesus Christ before ascending to heaven gave His apostles the fullness of truth, the apostolic church our mother and teacher is commanded by Him to teach and to sanctify with her sacraments (the promise of the spirit) all men unto eternal salvation! We are commanded to believe and obey! Matt 28:19

How can the Protestant concept: “sacred scripture is the only infallible source of truth” be true? There must be some infallible source that must tell us what is the canon of scripture & has authority to interpret scripture!

It is impossible to reject the church or her teaching without rejecting Christ who founded the church and revealed her teaching!

You cannot reject the kingdom established by the king and say I obey and submit to the king!

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

Christ and His church are one!
((Inseparable unity))
Acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 eph 5:32 Isa 53:5 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Only Christ has authority to establish the church! Matt 16:18-19
One church! Jn 10:16 All others are sects “full of errors” “the tradition of men”! The new covenant Church is the eternal city of God! Household of faith! The pillar and ground of TRUTH! 1 Tim 3:15 Founded by Christ alone! Matt 16:18 on Peter and the apostles! Eph 2:20 Lk 22:29

The 30,000 sects (the tradition of men) having no authority at all! And holding and teaching contrary and new doctrines that oppose the Christian faith that was revealed by Christ and taught by holy mother church! Matt 28:19 acts 16:17


The church was founded and existed and exercised authority in teaching, governance, and sanctifying souls before the New Testament was written!

The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!

The church wrote the scripture!

The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!

And commanded by Christ to teach and sanctify all men unto eternal salvation! Matt 28:19

For 30 plus years before the apostles wrote scripture
By the inspiration of the Holy Ghost they taught and preached and settle matters of doctrine!

Acts 8:12 & 25 & 35
Acts 13:5
1 pet 1:25

I am struggling with my own pascience in trying to formulate the words to respond to you that will not be offensive to you or another Catholic believer.

You said..........
1. "The church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!"
2. "The church wrote the scripture!"
3. "The church was taught by Christ in person for three years!"

My responces are......
1. Then the church will live in error and sin and false teachings that come from sinners (men).
Psalm 119:160....."The sum of Your word is truth,And every one of Your righteous ordinances is everlasting."
John 17:17............"Sanctify them in the truth; Your word is truth."

There is NOT ONE single Scripture in the Bible that says ....."the church does not require the scriptures to know the truth!"

2. NO!. You are incorrect.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the author of the Scriptures.
2 Tim. 3:16............"All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,"

Colossians 1:16....."For by him all things were created, ln heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him."

So then, the author of the Bible, the Word of God is none other than the Lord Jesus Christ as He moved upon the thoughts of men to write down what He wanted said.

John 8:52.......
"Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”


3. NO! You are incorrect.
The church was not established until 50 days after Jesus died.
The real truth is that Jesus taught HIs disciples who became His Apostles and they taught the church beginning in Acts 1.

 

[donadams]

You see....right here is the root of our differences.

I read, understand and accept the written Word of God over and above the words and teachings of any church or man.

That being the case .........you asked me.......
"What is the source of truth"???

My dear friend, Truth is that which is consistent with the mind, will, character, glory, and being of God.

Christ Himself said...........When Jesus said of Himself, “I am…the truth” in John 14:6.

Jesus also said that the written Word of God is truth. It does not merely contain nuggets of truth; it is pure, unchangeable, and inviolable truth that (according to Jesus) “cannot be broken” (John 10:35).

John 17:17........."Your word is truth”!

The written Word of God.

I can not express my thanks to you for your questions and allowing me to teach the Word of God. What a blessing.

Then we must believe it. Yes?

 

[Rodger]

Then we must believe it. Yes?

YES.

If you are asking if we should believe the Word of God as contained in the Bible then YES!

Do you actually accept the word of sinners over the Word of God?????

Is that the thesis of your faith.

 

[donadams]

I also so believe in the divinity of Christ.

A also accept the Bible fact that Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Mary as the "Mother of God" is NOT Biblical as I already posted that there is not one single Scripture to sporrt that. That is strictly a Catholic tradition.
You see, what you fail to recognize or fail to accept, is that the term...“Mother of God” implies that God somehow has His origin in Mary, which implies that she is somehow divine. That has led to the false teaching of the Catholic church that Mary is then the Co-Redeemer. This is not possible because God being the Creator of all things in heaven and on earth had no mother and did not need to have one.

There is NOT ONE single Scripture anywhere in the Bible that says or suggests that Mary was holy and immaculate. Again, that is totally a Catholic dogma that you believe. It is not Biblical and I am a Biblicist!
Being a devout Catholic, it will be very hard for you to grasp that.

You did not post One single Scripture to support your claim...NOT ONE and therefor what you post is only your opinion and actually means nothing to those who actually READ the Bible.

Even if was only a catholic tradition “teaching” we still must believe the church founded by Christ and commanded to teach His truth!

Christ did not remain on earth in person teaching us but established his apostolic church to do so!

Scripture yes Lk 1:43

No no no!
That’s an assumption or accusation on your part

Mary is not the mother of the divinity, or the mother of the eternal father, or the mother of the Holy Spirit, nor the source of the divine nature.

Mary is the mother of God, cos Jesus Christ is God and Mary is His mother, not the mother of His body but the mother of His entire person.


"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." Martin Luther

"Elizabeth called Mary Mother of the Lord, because the unity of the person in the two natures of Christ was such that she could have said that the mortal man engendered in the womb of Mary was at the same time the eternal God." John Calvin


Mother of God!

Jesus is a divine person who became man, and not a human person, that is why Mary is truly the “mother of God” Jesus is God, Mary is His mother, so she is the mother of God not to be confused with “source”, she is not the source of God or the mother of the divine nature, or the mother of the eternal Father, nor the mother of the spirit!

But mother of the Son who is God.

Only one person every has a family relationship with God, Mary; and she has three!

Daughter of the Father
Mother of the Son
Spouse of the Holy Spirit

And Jesus being our spiritual brother Mary is our spiritual mother!

God has no mother:
God is uncreated and eternal!

God the son does have a mother!
Mary is the mother of God!

It does not mean that Mary is the mother or source of the divine nature of God, or the mother of the father or the mother of the spirit.

it is a relationship between mother and child, Mary and Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is God;
Mary is His mother;
Mary is the mother of God to deny this is to deny the divinity of Christ and scripture. Lk 1:43

Thanks

 

[donadams]

Actually I am a Protestanr, born again believer who is a member of a Baptist church!

Actuall I do believe in SOLA SCRIPTURA is as true today as it was in 1559 my dear friend.

Are you a “reformed Baptist”
No offense but I’m not familiar with either just wanting to know the difference
I’m very familiar with southern Baptist cos had Friends growing up who were and my wife of 25 yrs was but she became catholic before I met her. Thks

 

[donadams]

I also so believe in the divinity of Christ.

A also accept the Bible fact that Mary gave birth to Jesus.

Mary as the "Mother of God" is NOT Biblical as I already posted that there is not one single Scripture to sporrt that. That is strictly a Catholic tradition.
You see, what you fail to recognize or fail to accept, is that the term...“Mother of God” implies that God somehow has His origin in Mary, which implies that she is somehow divine. That has led to the false teaching of the Catholic church that Mary is then the Co-Redeemer. This is not possible because God being the Creator of all things in heaven and on earth had no mother and did not need to have one.

There is NOT ONE single Scripture anywhere in the Bible that says or suggests that Mary was holy and immaculate. Again, that is totally a Catholic dogma that you believe. It is not Biblical and I am a Biblicist!
Being a devout Catholic, it will be very hard for you to grasp that.

You did not post One single Scripture to support your claim...NOT ONE and therefor what you post is only your opinion and actually means nothing to those who actually READ the Bible.

Lk 1:49 what things plural?
What are the possibilities?