Call No Man Father

[Rodger]

Who directs and encourage you to read the Bible? Men?
((That would be tradition of men))

The Holy Spirit that indwells the believer.

 

[donadams]

YES.

If you are asking if we should believe the Word of God as contained in the Bible then YES!

Do you actually accept the word of sinners over the Word of God?????

Is that the thesis of your faith.

Why this conflict? Scripture says to believe men!

 

[Hopeful 2]

Why this conflict? Scripture says to believe men!

Does it say to believe sinning men ?
I think not.

 

[Corn Pop]

It's not so easy Corn Pop.
If we can make up our own doctrine.....a truth doctrine....then there is NO TRUTH !

Now let's take OSAS for instance.
I'll pick this because there are some verses that make it seem that it might be true,
and there are some verses that speak clearly against it.

So how can we know if OSAS is a correct doctrine?

How do we trust only the bible if you and I are fairly intelligent persons and we cannot agree?

My feeling is that there must be a source that is different from the bible, but with almost the same authority.
That authority, for me, would be the ECFs.

I have no idea who else to go to.
How do YOU reconcile a concept that cannot be agreed upon by 2 Christians?

The bible is the fact checker. Maybe through the apostles there are some true Church leaders who speak only true doctrine yet who they are people will have to figure that out if they don't want to be mislead.

Everyone needs to be tested by there claims, as the scripture says to test the spirits, and as the scripture also says.

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

As for OSAS there probably is no doctrine as who can speak for God and decide whos saved?

 

[Corn Pop]

Pop.....I can assure you had Mary had several other children with Joseph. FOUR boys and at least TWO girls.

Mark 6:3 records people becoming angry with Jesus when He taught in His hometown. They rejected Him as a prophet and responded, .....
“‘Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?’ And they took offense at him.”

"Sisters" - more than one.

John 2:12 gives us another hint as we answer the question of whether Mary had other children: .....
“After this he went down to Capernaum with his mother and brothers and his disciples.”

The Catholic claim is that those "brothers are His cousins". Mother and brothers, used as a phrase, implies a familial relationship. Scripture gives us no reason to think these were not the biological children of Mary.

Efforts by the Catholic Church to prove that Mary remained a perpetual virgin are not based on Scripture, but on a misguided allegiance to a woman who was as fallible as any other human being.

That's the thing with scripture is there is no clarity on some things because its not relevant, its just a bit of info. It seem likely Jesus's had brothers and sisters given the scripture, yet i dont think its 100%.

Scripture does lead to believe Mary had more children , she may not have either, they could have been disciples called brothers and sisters, but I don't think that's right as it would probably say Jesus and his disciples if that was the case, not Jesus's and his brothers and sisters and given names and the fact he went to his home town and that's where it was said.

There is no right or wrong yet most Catholics seem to stand firm on Mary an ever virgin when the scripture does not clarify for certain. But thats indoctrination.

If the scripture said something like Mary gave birth to Jesus her first born and only son, then that would be clarity could say Jesus had at least no brothers with scripture backup.. But there is nothing.

People will always argue over things that are not fully clarified to the word.

Another interesting verse is this

"But he did not have relations in their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus"

Why mention that in scripture?. It leads to believe Mary and Joseph had relations in there marriage after Jesus was born and possibly had more children.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Scripture says to believe men!

Ok so believe me if i say catholicism is false.
Catholicism has the ability to refute itself.

 

[KV-44-v1]

People will always argue over things that are not fully clarified to the word.

actually theyll argue over clarified things too. for example, barbarian (a T.Evo.) is trying to doubt the gloablity of the Flood, when the Bible says it covered the highhest peak/s.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ok so believe me if i say catholicism is false.
Catholicism has the ability to refute itself.

Great reply!

Seriously, Catholicism is not false.
I'd say that it teaches some doctrine we could describe as false.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Great reply!

Seriously, Catholicism is not false.
I'd say that it teaches some doctrine we could describe as false.

ah, good point.
a few false bits do not make the whole thing false.
good to know.

 

[donadams]

That is acceptable and preferred to me. I just can not assimilate all that info at one time.

Iam sure many can.....I just can not do it.

I’m not getting baby younger

 

[donadams]

Luke 1:49..........
"For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name."

Now, where in that Scripture can I find that Mary is the Co-Redmeer????

Allow me to warn you about Deut. 4:2........
"You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God that I command you."

Too say that MARY is seen in Luke 1:49 is doing exactly what God commands us not to do.

Sorry I believe it is referring to the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus by the Holy Spirit

Mary is the one who is making this statement it obviously applies to Her!

Thks

 

[donadams]

I am a life time Southern Baptist and you would probably call me a "fundamentalist".

Fundamentalist = Believing in the fundamentals of written Bible Scriptures. It does not apply to handeling snakes or speaking in tongues etc.

Thank God!

 

[donadams]

I am not assuming. What I posted on Mary as the Mother of God is the Catholic position and what is taught by the church itself.

What I am saying is that the phrase "Mother of God" implies a source of divineity. God has no mother as He has always been and Jesus as the Christ always was with Him.

does Jesus have a relationship with Mary?

 

[donadams]

A great question.

I mean NO disrespect to you but your questions give away your lack of Bible knowledge away.

In John 3:3 Nicodemus clearly doesn’t understand what Jesus means in verse #4: .......
“How can someone be born when they are old?” he asks. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

When he hears Jesus say that to enter the kingdom one must be “born again,” I suspect Nicodemus understands Jesus to mean that we are not good enough to enter the kingdom: we must start over, have a different origin, spring from a different life.

It has been proposed that Jesus is specifying two births:
1. one must undergo not only natural physical birth = “born of water” which would be the 1st birth.
2. the 2nd birth is a spiritual birth = “born of . . . the Spirit”.

You see, ALL People must not only be born, but must be born “again.”
First time physically and the second time spiritually.

But this does not fit the verse

It does not say born of water and born again by the spirit
Or
Born again by the spirit alone

But born again by water and the spirit

Both water and the spirit

So it must mean baptismal regeneration

No I’m not ignorant of scripture only a stratagem to bring out certain points.

Thanks

 

[donadams]

What you posted is about half right so I do agree with some of it.

However, you said.......
"Priesthood is plural".

My dear friend, every single born again believer is a priest!

1 Peter 2:5-9............
"You also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ … But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light".

Today there is only one high Priest and that is Jesus.

Hebrews 4:14.........
" Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession".

All believers are called "kings and priests" and a "royal priesthood" as a reflection of their privileged status as heirs to the kingdom of the Almighty God and of the Lamb. Because of this privileged closeness with God, no other earthly mediator is necessary and there is NO Preacher, Priest or Pope required.

I understand that but there must be a ministerial priesthood

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:4

The canon of New Testament scripture & the public day of worship are decided by the visible apostolic church with the authority of Jesus Christ to bind and loose. Matt 16:18-19 & 28:18

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Same order of priest
The order of melchisedec
Offering the same sacrifice as Christ
Mal 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Pure offering
Clean oblation
Or
Unbloody sacrifice

Thks

 

[KV-44-v1]

I’m not getting baby younger

 

[donadams]

See what I mean.............YOU just implied the divinity of Mary because you believe she is the queen of heaven which is not found any where in the Bible except to identify the wife of Nimrod in Genesis 10.

No divinity implied
God filled Mary with all grace for us Lk 1:30
Jesus Christ is the source of all grace Jn 1:16-17
All grace comes to us thru Mary

This is the throne of grace
Mary is full of grace Lk 1:28

This is not the great white throne where Christ is at the right hand of the Father

Thks

Is Jesus Christ the king?
In the line of David?
Well in the kingly line of David the mother of the king is the queen

And Mary is the queen!
But it does not imply divinity

Psalm 45:9 …upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

Son of David the king: royalty!

Matt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.

Matt 12:23
Matt 15:22
Matt 20:30
Matt 20:31
Matt 21:9-15 etc.

Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

House of David the king:

Lk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Received the kingdom of David:

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Christ is King, Mary must be queen!

Only a queen can bear a king!

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33 the queen mother sits at His right hand and receives the petitions of the members of the kingdom!

The mother of any king is automatically queen and rules half the kingdom!
The queen mother!

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.

30 And the angel said to her, Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favor with God.

Mary is mother of mercy and the throne of grace!
heb 4:16

In scripture only Jesus and Mary are greeted with: “Hail”! Cos they are the royal King and Queen of heaven!


2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands

Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun.
Crown of stars = queen Mary


David the king carried the ark to the earthly Jerusalem.
2 Sam 6:15-16

Jesus the new king carried His ark to the heavenly Jerusalem! Rev 12:1
(Assumption of Mary into heaven and crowned with glory!)
Inaugurating the kingdom!


1 kings 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

ONLY A KING AND A QUEEN SIT ON A THRONE!

Blessing from God thru Mary!

All graces come to us thru Mary, from God by the merits (blood) of Christ!
Jn 1:16
Of His fullness we have all received, grace for grace!

And Jesus Christ the source of all grace came thru Mary!

Found our Salvation Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Mother of Christ Matt 1:16
Mother of the word Jn 1:1
Mother of our savior Matt 1:21
Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Our mother Jn 19:26-27

By Mary’s intercession Christ is presented to be worshipped by the angels, shepherds, and the kings at the stable! Cos Mary found the grace of our salvation! Lk 1:30

Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit!

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John sanctified in the womb!

Lk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Zacharias is filled with the Holy Spirit and prophecy!

Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

The wedding couple have wine and not shame!

Jn 2: 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The disciples are supplied with faith, hope, and charity!

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Mary found this grace! Lk 1:30
Mary believed for us! Lk 1:45
Mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30

All these blessings from God because of Mary most holy!

Mother of divine grace!

Mary is the divine treasury the Throne of grace! Heb 4:16

Biblical principle!

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!

 

[KV-44-v1]

immaculate conception of Mary

What does this mean?
Mary had sin on her, too.
All her ancestors would need to be sinless by RCC logic.

This point, RCC logic fails because RCC isn't Jesus' Church. EVEN if it somehow managed to be, it's certainly not now.

 

[KV-44-v1]

God filled Mary with all grace for us Lk 1:30
Jesus Christ is the source of all grace Jn 1:16-17

All grace comes to us thru Mary

your conclusion is a non sequitur.
May as well say that God is the source of Mary. Mabye that is more accurate.

 

[KV-44-v1]

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Define 'bring forth'.
Does that mean:

good tree can't CREATE bad fruit
good tree can't SPREAD bad fruit
good tree can't CONTAIN and then RELEASE bad fruit
?

I highly doubt it's #3.

I think GOD formed His body.