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Call No Man Father

Rodger said:
Post for all of us the Scriptures that say........."and do penance!"

LOOK at the Scriptures you posted. Not a single one supports your post!

That is WORK and what does the Bible says in Ephesians 2:8-9..........
" For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Have you ever read that Scripture? What do YOU think it means??????
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Matt 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation proper
It says saved cos it’s in the process of salvation

Redemption (life, death, & resurrection of Christ)
Justification (faith & baptism)
Sanctification (prayer, penance, suffering, virtues etc)
Purification (purgation)
Glorification (heavenly glory)
All in the process of salvation!

Eph 2:8 does not refer to you accepting christ as your lord and savior

It was already done before Paul wrote it “saved” past tense and it says “not of yourselves”

It applies to us in no way, we be members of Christ the grace of faith & baptism!

Thanks

There are many concepts both of us may not be familiar with, the important thing is coming to a biblical understanding, one mind one heart as scripture says
 
donadams said:
Only a queen can bear a king!
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God is not bound by such technicalities.
God isn't a human being, liimited by physics or technicalities.
With man, sure, what you say is true.
but with GOD, He is OMNIPOTENT.

Jesus was King forever.
 
Hopeful 2 said:
Does it say to believe sinning men ?
I think not.
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All men are subject to the sin nature the fallen human nature
Life and grace in Christ does not restore us to the preternatural gifts we had before the fall until final judgment
Now we have sanctifying grace and avoid sin only by self-denial and suffering
 
donadams said:
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
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so wait, if mary was sinless, by CATHOLIC logic, her ANCESTORS had to be too. <see above>
why make her sinless as adult, not as child? how ad hoc.
So far , 0 evidence she was ever made sinless....
 
KV-44-v1 said:
Ok so believe me if i say catholicism is false.
Catholicism has the ability to refute itself.
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Sorry only apostles have the authority of Jesus Christ!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15

Apostolic succession: apostles must remain till Christ returns Matt 28:19-20

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24 acts 2:42

Thks
 
donadams said:
All men are subject to the sin nature the fallen human nature
Click to expand...
Not after rebirth from God's seed, thank God !
donadams said:
Life and grace in Christ does not restore us to the preternatural gifts we had before the fall until final judgment
Click to expand...
What gifts did Adam and Eve have before they sinned, that they lost in the garden ?
donadams said:
Now we have sanctifying grace and avoid sin only by self-denial and suffering
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Wouldn't that be denial of what the "old man" once wanted ?
As new creatures, we want an entirely different set of things.
Holy things, things approved by God.
 
donadams said:
Matt 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Eph 2:8 refers to redemption not salvation proper
It says saved cos it’s in the process of salvation

Redemption (life, death, & resurrection of Christ)
Justification (faith & baptism)
Sanctification (prayer, penance, suffering, virtues etc)
Purification (purgation)
Glorification (heavenly glory)
All in the process of salvation!

Eph 2:8 does not refer to you accepting christ as your lord and savior

It was already done before Paul wrote it “saved” past tense and it says “not of yourselves”

It applies to us in no way, we be members of Christ the grace of faith & baptism!

Thanks

There are many concepts both of us may not be familiar with, the important thing is coming to a biblical understanding, one mind one heart as scripture says
Click to expand...
YES....Salvation is in fact a "Process" and not a one time event.

The Bible says that it includes......
1. election,
2. predestination,
3. redemption,
4. propitiation,
5. divine calling,
6. regeneration,
7, reconciliation,
9. forgiveness,
10adoption,
11sanctification,
12glorification.

However, the Bible no where in it describes Purgatory!

You said............
"Eph 2:8 does not refer to you accepting christ as your lord and savior."

Again, you are misinformed and YES my friend, that is exactly what it is saying. YOU do not accept that because you are a Catholic and you believe that there is something YOU must do to be saved....Purgatory, Penance, Works, Baptism.

You said.........
"It applies to us in no way, we be members of Christ the grace of faith & baptism!"

Again, you are misinformed. We are members of the body of Christ BY FAITH!.
 
donadams said:
No divinity implied
God filled Mary with all grace for us Lk 1:30
Jesus Christ is the source of all grace Jn 1:16-17
All grace comes to us thru Mary

This is the throne of grace
Mary is full of grace Lk 1:28

This is not the great white throne where Christ is at the right hand of the Father

Thks

Is Jesus Christ the king?
In the line of David?
Well in the kingly line of David the mother of the king is the queen

And Mary is the queen!
But it does not imply divinity

Psalm 45:9 …upon thy right hand did stand the queen in gold of Ophir.

Son of David the king: royalty!

Matt 1:1 The book of the generation of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

Matt 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 9:27
And when Jesus departed thence, two blind men followed him, crying, and saying, Thou son of David, have mercy on us.

Matt 12:23
Matt 15:22
Matt 20:30
Matt 20:31
Matt 21:9-15 etc.

Romans 1:3
Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

House of David the king:

Lk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

Received the kingdom of David:

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Rev 12:1 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:

Christ is King, Mary must be queen!

Only a queen can bear a king!

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33 the queen mother sits at His right hand and receives the petitions of the members of the kingdom!

The mother of any king is automatically queen and rules half the kingdom!
The queen mother!

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.

29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.

30 And the angel said to her, Fear not, Mary, for thou hast found favor with God.

Mary is mother of mercy and the throne of grace!
heb 4:16

In scripture only Jesus and Mary are greeted with: “Hail”! Cos they are the royal King and Queen of heaven!


2 Tim 2:8 Remember that Jesus Christ of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:

2 Tim 2: 21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work. How much more Mary who was prepared by God thru the immaculate conception! Lk 1:49

Heb 2:7

Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands

Rev12:1 woman clothed with the sun.
Crown of stars = queen Mary


David the king carried the ark to the earthly Jerusalem.
2 Sam 6:15-16

Jesus the new king carried His ark to the heavenly Jerusalem! Rev 12:1
(Assumption of Mary into heaven and crowned with glory!)
Inaugurating the kingdom!


1 kings 2:19 Bathsheba therefore went unto king Solomon, to speak unto him for Adonijah. And the king rose up to meet her, and bowed himself unto her, and sat down on his throne, and caused a seat to be set for the king's mother; and she sat on his right hand.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Heb 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

ONLY A KING AND A QUEEN SIT ON A THRONE!

Blessing from God thru Mary!

All graces come to us thru Mary, from God by the merits (blood) of Christ!
Jn 1:16
Of His fullness we have all received, grace for grace!

And Jesus Christ the source of all grace came thru Mary!

Found our Salvation Lk 1:30
Consented to our salvation Lk 1:38
Mother of Christ Matt 1:16
Mother of the word Jn 1:1
Mother of our savior Matt 1:21
Mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Our mother Jn 19:26-27

By Mary’s intercession Christ is presented to be worshipped by the angels, shepherds, and the kings at the stable! Cos Mary found the grace of our salvation! Lk 1:30

Elizabeth filled with the Holy Spirit!

Lk 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:

John sanctified in the womb!

Lk 1:15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

Lk 1:44 For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

Zacharias is filled with the Holy Spirit and prophecy!

Lk 1:67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

The wedding couple have wine and not shame!

Jn 2: 10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.

The disciples are supplied with faith, hope, and charity!

11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Mary found this grace! Lk 1:30
Mary believed for us! Lk 1:45
Mother of our salvation! Lk 2:30

All these blessings from God because of Mary most holy!

Mother of divine grace!

Mary is the divine treasury the Throne of grace! Heb 4:16

Biblical principle!

A good tree!

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

The fruit of the tree of Mary is our salvation! Lk 2:30 Jesus is our salvation!
Lk 1:30 Mary found our salvation!
Lk 1:38 consented to our salvation!
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Ignored......All is just Catholic dogma and is not a source of discussion.
 
donadams said:
I understand that but there must be a ministerial priesthood

Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission!

Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!

John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

Keys of jurisdictional authority! Open and shut And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments for the forgiveness of sin.


The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24

Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:4

The canon of New Testament scripture & the public day of worship are decided by the visible apostolic church with the authority of Jesus Christ to bind and loose. Matt 16:18-19 & 28:18

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Same order of priest
The order of melchisedec
Offering the same sacrifice as Christ
Mal 1:11
For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

Pure offering
Clean oblation
Or
Unbloody sacrifice

Thks
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I really hate to continue to do this but.....YOU are again misinformed!

First Peter 2 indicates that all Christians are priests—but it does not mention the existence of a ministerial priesthood.

Please, instead of searching Catholic blogs to make your points, READ THE BIBLE!

Indeed, the ordained ministers of the New Covenant are called apostles in Eph. 4:11), presbyters in Jas 5:14, bishops in 1 Tm 3:1, and deacons in 1 Tm 3:8ff, but never priests (Gk. hiereus).
 
donadams said:
But this does not fit the verse

It does not say born of water and born again by the spirit
Or
Born again by the spirit alone

But born again by water and the spirit

Both water and the spirit

So it must mean baptismal regeneration

No I’m not ignorant of scripture only a stratagem to bring out certain points.

Thanks
Click to expand...
Really?

Allow me, John 3:5 KJV
"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God."

John 3:5.. New Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition
" Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit."
 
donadams said:
does Jesus have a relationship with Mary?
Click to expand...
YES. She is his mother.

Now we both know what your ext step will be so allow me to say to you before you try to make Mary divine and able to influence Jesus as the Christ because He is god by saying what you will ask.............
But if Jesus can grant salvation, why can't Mary, the 'mother of God'?

Firstly, consider the fact that your life began when your mother conceived you, but that isn't the case for Jesus, who was God in heaven before time began (see John 1:1).

Mary is simply the vessel through whom God chose to enter humanity, not the origin of His existence. To the contrary, it is her existence that began when He created her.

Now THINK instead of reading Catholic blogs and Secondly, sinners are saved by having the death penalty due for their sins paid by someone who is sinless and therefore qualified to die for others' sins. Only Jesus was sinless, able to and did die for the sins of sinners. Mary was a sinner herself in need of her “Savior” (Luke 1:47) and therefore neither did nor was qualified to pay the death penalty for others' sins.
 
donadams said:
Sorry I believe it is referring to the immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus by the Holy Spirit

Mary is the one who is making this statement it obviously applies to Her!

Thks
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My dear friend, you can not possibly believe that!!! That is what the Catholic church has told you and YOU as a good Catholic accepted it.

There is NOT ONE single Scripture anywhere in the Bible to support Mary's Immaculate conception! NOT ONE!

Mary was a sinner just like YOU and ME and she needed to be saved from her sins just as did you and me.

Romans 3:23 "ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God" is impossible to be ignored, twisted or rejected!
 
KV-44-v1 said:
your conclusion is a non sequitur.
May as well say that God is the source of Mary. Mabye that is more accurate.
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Now that is a fact.

God is the creator of Mary, Jesus is the Creator, so in essence, Nary existed because of Jesus.

Now wrap your head around that!
 
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