Call No Man Father

[donadams]

Incorrect!


My friend........you post
Jn 3:5
Acts 22:15
Titus 3:5

Not a single one of those demands water baptism. Why would you use them to support what it does not say.

To some of us that have studied the original Greek, we can say with confidence that the Greek word translated baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5. As I have explained to you several times now, the CONTEXT of "born of water and the Spirit" refer to being born physically and born again spiritually.

As for Acts 22:15, the Greek aorist participle, epikalesamenos, is translated "calling on His name" and refers to action that is taken before that of the main verb, "be baptized." So then Here Paul’s calling on Christ’s name for salvation preceded his water baptism.

As for Titus 3:5, may I say to you that the “washing of regeneration” refers to being born again. That is the 1st act of regeneration by faith and that is the choice for Christ.

The Greek word for “washing” in Titus 3:5 describes the act of cleansing something all over thoroughly. Regeneration means taking an already existing thing and making it new again or starting over. In literal terms, it means “birth again.”

With all due respect and love, may I suggest that you print out these responces so that you can refer to them. You see, you keep posting the same Scriptures over and over and I keep giving you the same answers.

Somewhere it seems to me that you are not reading my answers.

Sorry should be acts 22:16

Jn 3:5 connected directly to Jn 3:22 river water wash

 

[donadams]

That is correct!

However, you still have not responded to my question (x3) if you believe and accept the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity.

May I ask you WHY you are refusing to answer?

Sorry thought I did

Yes trinity is biblical but also purgatory

 

[Rodger]

Please explain
Lk 1:6
Rev 12:17

I should not have to explain them to you, AGAIN! But I certainly will. Please print this answer.

Luke 1:6.......
"And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."

Righteous means JUST. "JUST" and here in the original Greek means Declared not guility!
It means exactly what it says in that these women were faithfull in the Jewish faith.

Revelation 12:17............
" And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ."

This Scripture is yet in the future. It has not taken place as of today.

If Mary is the woman in Rev. 12, then who are the rest of her offspring described in verse 17?
As I have worked to answer all of your many, simple questions Biblically, I would appreciate it if you would answer 2 of mine.

1. If Mary is the woman in Rev. 12, then who are the rest of her offspring described in verse 17?

2. Do you accept the Catholic doctrine of the Trinity? (asked now 4 times).

 

[Rodger]

Vincent of Lerins

“With great zeal and closest attention, therefore, I frequently inquired of many men, eminent for their holiness and doctrine, how I might, in a concise and, so to speak, general and ordinary way, distinguish the truth of the Catholic faith from the falsehood of heretical depravity.

“I received almost always the same answer from all of them—that if I or anyone else wanted to expose the frauds and escape the snares of the heretics who rise up, and to remain intact and in sound faith, it would be necessary, with the help of the Lord, to fortify that faith in a twofold manner: first, of course, by the authority of divine law [Scripture] and then by the tradition of the Catholic Church.

“Here, perhaps, someone may ask: ‘If the canon of the scriptures be perfect and in itself more than suffices for everything, why is it necessary that the authority of ecclesiastical interpretation be joined to it?’ Because, quite plainly, sacred Scripture, by reason of its own depth, is not accepted by everyone as having one and the same meaning. . . .

“Thus, because of so many distortions of such various errors, it is highly necessary that the line of prophetic and apostolic interpretation be directed in accord with the norm of the ecclesiastical and Catholic meaning” (The Notebooks [A.D. 434]).

Quoting Catholic teaching is not discussion. It is called redundant reasoning.

 

[Rodger]

Sorry should be acts 22:16

Jn 3:5 connected directly to Jn 3:22 river water wash

Dosent matter.

Acts 22:16 says The Greek aorist participle, epikalesamenos, translated "calling on His name" refers either to action that is simultaneous with or before that of the main verb, "be baptized." Here Paul’s calling on Christ’s name for salvation preceded his water baptism.

 

[Rodger]

Sorry thought I did

Yes trinity is biblical but also purgatory

OK.

Now lets think about this and I ask you to be honest. You are a good Catholic so it should be easy for you.

YOU argue that you do not accept "Faith Alone" as the means of salvation because the literal words AR NOT IN THE BIBLE.

However, you then argue for the Trinity and THAT WORD IS ALSO NOT IN THE BIBLE.

That is called INCONSISTANY. It is an unacceptable position that you have placed yourself in.

What I am pointing out to you is simply that you can not have it both ways.

 

[GodsGrace]

Incorrect!


My friend........you post
Jn 3:5
Acts 22:15
Titus 3:5

Not a single one of those demands water baptism. Why would you use them to support what it does not say.

To some of us that have studied the original Greek, we can say with confidence that the Greek word translated baptism is not mentioned in John 3:5. As I have explained to you several times now, the CONTEXT of "born of water and the Spirit" refer to being born physically and born again spiritually.

As for Acts 22:15, the Greek aorist participle, epikalesamenos, is translated "calling on His name" and refers to action that is taken before that of the main verb, "be baptized." So then Here Paul’s calling on Christ’s name for salvation preceded his water baptism.

As for Titus 3:5, may I say to you that the “washing of regeneration” refers to being born again. That is the 1st act of regeneration by faith and that is the choice for Christ.

The Greek word for “washing” in Titus 3:5 describes the act of cleansing something all over thoroughly. Regeneration means taking an already existing thing and making it new again or starting over. In literal terms, it means “birth again.”

With all due respect and love, may I suggest that you print out these responces so that you can refer to them. You see, you keep posting the same Scriptures over and over and I keep giving you the same answers.

Somewhere it seems to me that you are not reading my answers.

I just fell upon the above but I have to leave soon....

John 3:5 has always been very interesting to me.
Catholics believe the water is baptism, but we see Nicodemus asking how a man could enter again into this mother's womb.

Most Protestant theologians believe it's physical birth.
I tend to believe that because it makes more sense.

If it's read in Greek,,,doesn't it sound like we have to accept the physical first, but meaning in creation...like the spirit of God hovering over the water in Genesis.

I asked a priest friend of mine about this a few years ago and he mentioned something like this.
Maybe I'll bring it up again. (he's a catholic theologian reads Hebrew and Greek and taught Greek)...

Do you have any comment on the above?

 

[GodsGrace]

OK.

Now lets think about this and I ask you to be honest. You are a good Catholic so it should be easy for you.

YOU argue that you do not accept "Faith Alone" as the means of salvation because the literal words AR NOT IN THE BIBLE.

However, you then argue for the Trinity and THAT WORD IS ALSO NOT IN THE BIBLE.

That is called INCONSISTANY. It is an unacceptable position that you have placed yourself in.

What I am pointing out to you is simply that you can not have it both ways.

LOL
Faith alone is in the bible.
James 2:24
24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

But Catholics believe in a complicated definition of justification...so I'd rather not go into that.
Put simply,,,,they conflate justification with sanctification and it makes it really difficult to understand.

 

[Rodger]

LOL
Faith alone is in the bible.
James 2:24
24You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

But Catholics believe in a complicated definition of justification...so I'd rather not go into that.
Put simply,,,,they conflate justification with sanctification and it makes it really difficult to understand.

Thnak you brother, but I new that was there and actually posted it as well.

It does not say that we are save by faith alone but says "NOT by faith alone".

I agree. Most all Catholic believers are what I like to call...."Throughly confused".

That is exactly why I showed "donadams" how inconsistent his theology was in that he did not accept "faith alone" because those literally words are not in the Scriptures but he accepted the Trinity which is literally not in the Bible literally either.

Thanks for your impute.

 

[Rodger]

I just fell upon the above but I have to leave soon....

John 3:5 has always been very interesting to me.
Catholics believe the water is baptism, but we see Nicodemus asking how a man could enter again into this mother's womb.

Most Protestant theologians believe it's physical birth.
I tend to believe that because it makes more sense.

If it's read in Greek,,,doesn't it sound like we have to accept the physical first, but meaning in creation...like the spirit of God hovering over the water in Genesis.

I asked a priest friend of mine about this a few years ago and he mentioned something like this.
Maybe I'll bring it up again. (he's a catholic theologian reads Hebrew and Greek and taught Greek)...

Do you have any comment on the above?

You are exactly and literally correct. What you state about the water and physical birth is CONTEXT.

More years ago than I want to remember, I was taught that the water was baptism.
As I grew older and actually read the Bible, it did not make any sense that water would have any effect on our spiritual condition.

Then when I was studying at DTS a very well know professor explained to us exactly what you just posted and then it all fell into place for me.

In John 3, when he was told that he had to be born again, Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit…”.

So the CONTEXT or focus is on “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Nicodemus mistakenly thought that Jesus was referring to being physically born again; this is why Nicodemus stated, “How can someone be born when they are old?”

So again we see the CONTEXT is physical birth. Every human being born comes with amniotic fluid. What I am saying here is what we all know to be a fact in that every unborn babies reside in a sac of amniotic fluid withon the womb of the mother. We even use the expression "her water broke" when it’s time for birth.

According to the amniotic fluid interpretation Jesus’ words mean that a person must be born once of his or her mother, that is to say biologically (hence the amniotic fluid), and again through the Spirit in order to enter Heaven.

The only other explination is that we must be baptized in water to be born again. That phrase is not in the Bible anywhere and it would disenfranchise about 30 or so other Scriptures that say we are saved by faith and not of ourselves.

Thanks for your post and asking for my thoughts.

 

[Hopeful 2]

1. Yes I am and that is what I said.

OK.

2. Yes.
All the lost and unbelieving will be judged by Christ at the “great white throne,” and they will face punishment in Hell.

Would you be kind enough to provide as example of unbelief ?

All Believers will stand before Christ as judge. The Bible declares that....
“We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ.”

Agreed.

For believers, the aim of this judgment to declare the measure of your reward in the age to come according to the works done in the body?

What if those works are sinful ?
Will God turn a blind eye and judge unrighteously ?

3. It is impossible for believers NOT TO SIN after being saved.
Although we truly have been made new in our spirit, we continue to live in a fallen world and have a disposition toward sin and every human being has a sin nature. We continue to sin because we are sinners.

Your outlook lacks the factors of rebirth from God's seed.
His seed cannot bear liars, thieves, or adulterers.

Why does a dog bark? Because he is a dog and that is his nature.

What if he is reborn as a frog ?
Will he still bark and play keep-away ?
NO.

Why does a rattlesnake bite? Because he is a rattlesnake and that is his nature.

What if he is reborn as a snail ?
Will he still hunt small rodents ?
NO.

Why does a sinner sin? Because he is a sinner and that is his nature.

He sins because he is born of Adam's seed.
Those reborn of God's seed don't commit sin.

4. Yes and NO.
It depends entirely on the subject in focus. If it is sports, yes.
If it is whether or not I can have CONFIDENCE in the written Word of God, then NO!

Do you think many servants of sin really believe all that God has had written ?
Jesus said that they who commit sin are the servants of sin. (John 8:34)
If sinners had confidence in the words of God, what do you suppose they think of Matt 7:21-23..."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
"Iniquity" is the same as "sin".

Have you failed to understand that whereas the self-confidence promoted by the world has selfish ambition as its goal in what we can do,

Not at all.
Where does the sinner get confidence to think he has any relationship with God while he is lying, stealing, or committing adultery?

the confidence of the believer has a right relationship with God as its aim.

The aim of the believer is to keep his relationship with God unstained.

Here is how to determine if one "knows" God..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

Paul wrote this to the Corinthians..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

It is possible to live without sinning.

 

[GodsGrace]

Thnak you brother, but I new that was there and actually posted it as well.

It does not say that we are save by faith alone but says "NOT by faith alone".

I agree. Most all Catholic believers are what I like to call...."Throughly confused".

That is exactly why I showed "donadams" how inconsistent his theology was in that he did not accept "faith alone" because those literally words are not in the Scriptures but he accepted the Trinity which is literally not in the Bible literally either.

Thanks for your impute.

BTW
I'm a girl.

James says we are NOT saved by faith alone.

Catholics are not confused.
They have a different way of explaining what the NT teaches.
The verbiage is different.

Now, I'm not Catholic but I wish I could be.
Protestantism has a BIG problem and I don't know if this is the place to get into it.
I had started a thread on this some years ago.
It was titled:
DOES PROTESTENTISM NEED A POPE?

You're an intelligent person and I do believe you've already understood my point.

Both "denominations" have problems.
It's nice that YOU are able to discuss this in such a nice manner.

I'll continue to join in at times
but I'm not here to protect the CC.

 

[GodsGrace]

You are exactly and literally correct. What you state about the water and physical birth is CONTEXT.

More years ago than I want to remember, I was taught that the water was baptism.
As I grew older and actually read the Bible, it did not make any sense that water would have any effect on our spiritual condition.

Then when I was studying at DTS a very well know professor explained to us exactly what you just posted and then it all fell into place for me.

In John 3, when he was told that he had to be born again, Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit…”.

So the CONTEXT or focus is on “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

Nicodemus mistakenly thought that Jesus was referring to being physically born again; this is why Nicodemus stated, “How can someone be born when they are old?”

So again we see the CONTEXT is physical birth. Every human being born comes with amniotic fluid. What I am saying here is what we all know to be a fact in that every unborn babies reside in a sac of amniotic fluid withon the womb of the mother. We even use the expression "her water broke" when it’s time for birth.

According to the amniotic fluid interpretation Jesus’ words mean that a person must be born once of his or her mother, that is to say biologically (hence the amniotic fluid), and again through the Spirit in order to enter Heaven.

The only other explination is that we must be baptized in water to be born again. That phrase is not in the Bible anywhere and it would disenfranchise about 30 or so other Scriptures that say we are saved by faith and not of ourselves.

Thanks for your post and asking for my thoughts.

Thank YOU.
It's the only way the verses make any sense.
It also helped me to understand, many moons ago, the difference between the body and the spirit.
It allowed the bible to make more sense to me when it spoke about the flesh, sinning, etc.

 

[Rodger]

Thank YOU.
It's the only way the verses make any sense.
It also helped me to understand, many moons ago, the difference between the body and the spirit.
It allowed the bible to make more sense to me when it spoke about the flesh, sinning, etc.

It is my honor sir.

Something I learned a long time ago and have shared may times when teaching the Bible is that when it speak to you, it will give you the feeling that it all fits into place.

It is like a jig saw puzzle on a table. You look at all the individual pieces and think.....wow, how can there be a picture in this. But the more pices you put together the clearer the picture becomes and then when that last piece it fitted in......Bingo!!

It reminds me of the old TV show where the captain of the group says......"I LOVE IT WHEN A PLAN COMES TOGETHER"!

 

[Rodger]

BTW
I'm a girl.

James says we are NOT saved by faith alone.

Catholics are not confused.
They have a different way of explaining what the NT teaches.
The verbiage is different.

Now, I'm not Catholic but I wish I could be.
Protestantism has a BIG problem and I don't know if this is the place to get into it.
I had started a thread on this some years ago.
It was titled:
DOES PROTESTENTISM NEED A POPE?

You're an intelligent person and I do believe you've already understood my point.

Both "denominations" have problems.
It's nice that YOU are able to discuss this in such a nice manner.

I'll continue to join in at times
but I'm not here to protect the CC.

My aoplogies. I did not know.

Please understand that I am not trying to bash or argue with any Catholic believer. If you have read what I have said you have seen that all I am doing is showing the difference between what the Bible says and what the RCC actually teaches and does.

Correct....that is exactly what James says "We are not saved by faith alone".
CONTEXTUALLY, I am sure that you know that James is not arguing against the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. The fact is simply the Bible does not need to contain the precise phrase “faith alone” in order to clearly teach salvation by faith alone.

A faith without works is useless and dead so in other words, it is not true faith at all. Salvation is by faith alone, but that faith will never be alone.

I understand that you believe the Catholics are not confused. Maybe confused is not the correct word.

Now, if I showed you a Bible Scripture that says one thing, and you say, I do not believe that but I believe what my Pastor has told me instead.....do YOU call that "Confused or Rejected".

Question.......If the Bible says and it does, "ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God" but your Pastor tells you that MARY the mother of Jesus is not included in "ALL have sinned" and she is in fact sinless, ........do you accept the Pastors word or God's Word. Is that confusion or rejection????

I agree. The Protestant religion has many problems because it has men in it. ALL men are sinners thus the problem. But what it DOES NOT have is open rebellion to the written word of God.

The Protestant church came into existence because the Catholic church did not follow the Word of God in that INDULGENCES were openly given to the rich and elite = Inconsistant theology.

 

[Rodger]

OK.

Would you be kind enough to provide as example of unbelief ?

Agreed.

What if those works are sinful ?
Will God turn a blind eye and judge unrighteously ?

Your outlook lacks the factors of rebirth from God's seed.
His seed cannot bear liars, thieves, or adulterers.

What if he is reborn as a frog ?
Will he still bark and play keep-away ?
NO.

What if he is reborn as a snail ?
Will he still hunt small rodents ?
NO.

He sins because he is born of Adam's seed.
Those reborn of God's seed don't commit sin.

Do you think many servants of sin really believe all that God has had written ?
Jesus said that they who commit sin are the servants of sin. (John 8:34)
If sinners had confidence in the words of God, what do you suppose they think of Matt 7:21-23..."Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
"Iniquity" is the same as "sin".

Not at all.
Where does the sinner get confidence to think he has any relationship with God while he is lying, stealing, or committing adultery?

The aim of the believer is to keep his relationship with God unstained.

Here is how to determine if one "knows" God..."And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." (1 John 2:3-6)

Paul wrote this to the Corinthians..."Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame." (1 Cor 15:34)

It is possible to live without sinning.

It would be most helpful if you would ask your questions or state your positions one at a time.

I will try to respond as you have posted but I do not do well with several things on one post.

#1. You asked...
Would you be kind enough to provide as example of unbelief ?
The first one I thought of is in the first book of the Bible, Adam and Eve. In the Garden of Eden, God gave Adam and Eve one command regarding the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. However, their doubt and curiosity led them to question God’s word and ultimately disobey His command.

#2.You asked....
"What if those works are sinful ?"
Works done for God in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ can never be a sinfull act so your question does not apply.

#3.. You asked...
Will God turn a blind eye and judge unrighteously ?

God is holy and righteous and it is impossible for Him to do anything that is unrighteous. Now, as a believer YOU should know that and not have to ask.

#4. You asked....
Your outlook lacks the factors of rebirth from God's seed.
His seed cannot bear liars, thieves, or adulterers.
Your question lacks knowledge of how God works. According to the Bible, the seed of God is the Word of God. The Bible also says that God regards us as His seed. This implies that if we are born again in the truth and grow in faith, we must resemble God and bear fruit. Unless we learn God’s love and sacrifice correctly, we will not be able to fully perform our role and function as the seed of God which we are by FAITH spiritually in Jesus as the Christ.
#5.
What if he is reborn as a frog? What if he is reborn as a snail ? Will he still hunt small rodents ?
Your question tells me that you do not have any concept of what the Bible calls....."Born Again".
Born Again has nothing whatsoever to do with reincarnation or physical birth.

As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said, “‘I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’ ‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, “You must be born again”’” . "Born Again" is a SPIRITUAL condition in which the last sinner becomes a saved sinner by faith in Jesus as the Christ.

#6. You asked.
He sins because he is born of Adam's seed.
Correct. That my friend is called in theology, "Original Sin".
Original sin can be defined as “the moral corruption we possess as a consequence of Adam’s sin, resulting in a sinful disposition manifesting itself in habitually sinful behavior.” The doctrine of original sin focuses particularly on its effect on our internal nature and our standing before God. There are three main views that deal with that effect:

#7.....You asked
Those reborn of God's seed don't commit sin.
No Sir, that is not true.
Romans 3:23....."ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God". ALL = Every human being!

#8. You asked....
Where does the sinner get confidence to think he has any relationship with God while he is lying, stealing, or committing adultery?
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that all who believe in Him will have ETERAL life"!

God's love overpowers and forgives the sinner of his sin.
#9.
It is possible to live without sinning.

NO!. Every human is affected by original sin and all have sinned and God does not approve of sin.

I will be glad to respond to your questions again BUT ONLY ONE AT A TIME.

 

[Rodger]

Sorry thought I did

Yes trinity is biblical but also purgatory

I can not help but notice that since I asked you to explain why you believe in the Trinity which is not in the Bible and the words, and you reject "Faith alone" which is not in the Bible.....you have made NO responces.

You did not answer the question and have not responded......WHY is that?

 

[Hopeful 2]

It would be most helpful if you would ask your questions or state your positions one at a time.

I will try to respond as you have posted but I do not do well with several things on one post.

#1. You asked...
Would you be kind enough to provide as example of unbelief ?
The first one I thought of is in the first book of the Bible, Adam and Eve. In the Garden of Eden, God gave Adam and Eve one command regarding the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. However, their doubt and curiosity led them to question God’s word and ultimately disobey His command.

#2.You asked....
"What if those works are sinful ?"
Works done for God in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ can never be a sinfull act so your question does not apply.

#3.. You asked...
Will God turn a blind eye and judge unrighteously ?

God is holy and righteous and it is impossible for Him to do anything that is unrighteous. Now, as a believer YOU should know that and not have to ask.

#4. You asked....
Your outlook lacks the factors of rebirth from God's seed.
His seed cannot bear liars, thieves, or adulterers.
Your question lacks knowledge of how God works. According to the Bible, the seed of God is the Word of God. The Bible also says that God regards us as His seed. This implies that if we are born again in the truth and grow in faith, we must resemble God and bear fruit. Unless we learn God’s love and sacrifice correctly, we will not be able to fully perform our role and function as the seed of God which we are by FAITH spiritually in Jesus as the Christ.
#5.
What if he is reborn as a frog? What if he is reborn as a snail ? Will he still hunt small rodents ?
Your question tells me that you do not have any concept of what the Bible calls....."Born Again".
Born Again has nothing whatsoever to do with reincarnation or physical birth.

As Jesus talked with Nicodemus, He said, “‘I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.’ ‘How can a man be born when he is old?’ Nicodemus asked. ‘Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb to be born!’ Jesus answered, ‘I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, “You must be born again”’” . "Born Again" is a SPIRITUAL condition in which the last sinner becomes a saved sinner by faith in Jesus as the Christ.

#6. You asked.
He sins because he is born of Adam's seed.
Correct. That my friend is called in theology, "Original Sin".
Original sin can be defined as “the moral corruption we possess as a consequence of Adam’s sin, resulting in a sinful disposition manifesting itself in habitually sinful behavior.” The doctrine of original sin focuses particularly on its effect on our internal nature and our standing before God. There are three main views that deal with that effect:

#7.....You asked
Those reborn of God's seed don't commit sin.
No Sir, that is not true.
Romans 3:23....."ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God". ALL = Every human being!

#8. You asked....
Where does the sinner get confidence to think he has any relationship with God while he is lying, stealing, or committing adultery?
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that all who believe in Him will have ETERAL life"!

God's love overpowers and forgives the sinner of his sin.
#9.
It is possible to live without sinning.

NO!. Every human is affected by original sin and all have sinned and God does not approve of sin.

I will be glad to respond to your questions again BUT ONLY ONE AT A TIME.

All I got from that is that you don't beleive that those born of God won't bring forth the devil's fruit.

 

[Rodger]

All I got from that is that you don't beleive that those born of God won't bring forth the devil's fruit.

Really.

That is why I asked you to ask ONE question at a time so as not to waste time and effort.

Brother, it is an error to think that a Christ will not and can not sin.

Do you actually mean to sit at your computer and tell me that YOU do not sin!!!!
Since you have been saved, are you saying to me that You have never told a lie....
never looked at a women with lust?????

You have never ever fudged just a little on your income taxes.
Are you saying to me that YOU have never used God's name in vain????

Is that really what you want us to believe???

Do you understand that “Sin” is any thought, word, or action that is contrary to the character or law of God.

Are you saying that you have never been jealous or had a prideful thought?

Can you explain to me how that Paul, the Apostle said in Romans 7:14 that "I am the CHIEF among sinners"????

Now, if you want to say that "KNOWN" Sin cannot continue being a lifestyle choice if we have surrendered our lives to Jesus then I agree.

In other words, in plain country boy English, the person who is a whore can not continue to be one when they come to Christ.

The homosexual can not continue to be one once they are saved.

The murderer can not continue to be one once they are saved.

 

[GodsGrace]

My aoplogies. I did not know.

LOL No harm done!

Please understand that I am not trying to bash or argue with any Catholic believer. If you have read what I have said you have seen that all I am doing is showing the difference between what the Bible says and what the RCC actually teaches and does.

It's good to speak with those of other denomnations.
All we ask on this site is that it's done in a civil manner that befits a Christian.

I do see a difference, at times, between what a person THINKS the CC teaches,
and what it actually teaches.

Sometimes I'll step in but not too often.
People will still believe what they believe anyway.

Correct....that is exactly what James says "We are not saved by faith alone".
CONTEXTUALLY, I am sure that you know that James is not arguing against the doctrine of salvation by faith alone. The fact is simply the Bible does not need to contain the precise phrase “faith alone” in order to clearly teach salvation by faith alone.

A faith without works is useless and dead so in other words, it is not true faith at all. Salvation is by faith alone, but that faith will never be alone.

The CC also teaches that we are saved by faith alone.
Only faith saves.....not works.

It's what comes after that seems to be the problem.
The fact that it's called by two different terms does not help any.

I understand that you believe the Catholics are not confused. Maybe confused is not the correct word.

Now, if I showed you a Bible Scripture that says one thing, and you say, I do not believe that but I believe what my Pastor has told me instead.....do YOU call that "Confused or Rejected".

I don't believe what pastors tell me unless I can prove it for myself.
That's why I'm not a Catholic...I need to understand everything in my own mind.

Question.......If the Bible says and it does, "ALL have sinned and come short of the Glory of God" but your Pastor tells you that MARY the mother of Jesus is not included in "ALL have sinned" and she is in fact sinless, ........do you accept the Pastors word or God's Word. Is that confusion or rejection????

I see what you mean.
The problem is that it's not a pastor/priest making that proclamation.
It's the church that proclaims this from writings from the very early church...
otherwise known as Tradition.

In my own mind I understand it like this:
Paul was teaching something. I don't think he had Mary in mind.
My belief is that God would not place His Son in a body that contained the sin nature.
If the body is a temple....then the body of the woman who bore Jesus should be the ultimate temple.
So they teach that Mary was conceived immaculately. Which makes sense to me.
Did you know that Catholic theologians debate WHEN Mary became immaculate?
Was it at conception....some time later....at birth....
I had read about this.

Catholics go very deep into theology.
They also use the writings of the Apostolic Fathers - which comes in very handy at times.

I agree. The Protestant religion has many problems because it has men in it. ALL men are sinners thus the problem. But what it DOES NOT have is open rebellion to the written word of God.

That's not the problem.
Catholicism has that problem too.
Men tend to cause strife.

What the problem is with Protestantism is that there are TOO MANY denominations.
Too many schisms even due to the most minute difference, or a nuance so small as to be silly to separate for such a reason.

The Protestant church came into existence because the Catholic church did not follow the Word of God in that INDULGENCES were openly given to the rich and elite = Inconsistant theology.

Agreed 100%.

Reformation was necessary.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

But look what it got us....