Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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It is written..."For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death." (2 Cor 7:10)Which we know, empirically, simply is not true. It's not even the definition of the word!
Not the Mosaic Law, but you are under the Law of Christ.If I am led of the Spirit, I am not under the law (Galatians 5:18).
Agreed.Obviously, not following Christ is the sign that you do not belong to Christ. Was the person who stopped following Christ ever Christ's? What does it matter? Think what you want about that. Either way that person does not belong to Christ and will not go to be with him when they die. That is what matters, not whether or not they were ever really saved.
Obedience is what is expected of us if we want to be saved.No, stop twisting the argument.
Obedience to God is not expected of us in order to be justified.
You're showing you still do not understand the gospel.
We don't operate on the principle of attempting to obey a set of do's and don't as believers.justbyfaith said:
Rom 2:13, (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Rom 2:14, For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
Rom 2:15, Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; )
Obedience to God is a result of submission to Him.
justbyfaith said:
We inadvertently become law-abiding citizens of the kingdom of heaven when we consistently bear the fruit of the Spirit.
Gal 5:22, But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Inadvertently?
How about on purpose?
If we have turned from sin, repented of sin, isn't it fair to say we only do righteousness afterwards on purpose?
Under the law to Christ (as concerning obedience). 1 Corinthians 9:21 (kjv), Hebrews 8:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5, Romans 8:4.Not the Mosaic Law, but you are under the Law of Christ.
Too bad you didn't get reborn of God's seed at the start of those wasted ten years.I believe the key is in the OP's verse 12 "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body..." and here is why (and this applies to all truly born from above). Before being re-born as one of His, we lived for sin. We did not even consider it sin. I remember getting prepared on Thursday for going partying on Friday and Saturday! Sin was my way of life (though I thought is WAS life) and the occasions when I strove to be righteous or do good or not to "sin" were the exception not the rule.,
Then after His Spirit took up residence, over the next 10 years (takes time for some babies to grow), these interests slowly faded and being righteous, doing good and striving to NOT sin became the norm and sinning became the exception to the rule. Most of the sins after that point are what the RC's call "sins of the flesh" (occasional desires to drink, or being swept up in lustful thoughts usually combatted, and so on). God knows we are still IN these flesh tents and as long as we are (unfortunately) we will on occasion be drawn into such things. But trust Him, HJis grace is much much bigger than our human frailty.
Whosoever that says they have NO SIN in their life is a liar and the truth is not in him. So when we sin confess and agree with Him about our sin and He IS justified and faithful to forgive us (1 John). Be blessed and fear not for He is with us and Jesus death, burial, and resurrection ARE sufficient
1 John 1:8, (and verses 6 and 10), are addressing those who walk in darkness-sin.1 John 1:8, right?
Does 1 John 1:8 contradict the literal understanding of 1 John 3:4-9?
I don't think so.
1 John 1:8 is either talking about indwelling sin (and not practical sinning) or else it is referring, as in the case of Hebrews 4:15, to a record of past sins; and therefore 1 John 1:10 would only be a reiteration of 1 John 1:8.
If the latter, then it would not be deceiving one's self to say that we are without indwelling sin.
Colossians 2:11 (especially in the nlt) would seem to substantiate this concept.
But I have taught over the years that 1 John 1:8 is referring to indwelling sin rather than practical sinning. In that case, then it should be clear that the element of sin within the flesh can be rendered dead (Romans 6:6, Galatians 5:24, Romans 7:8) so that it no longer has any authority over our behaviour (Romans 6:14, Romans 8:12 (kjv, nlt)).
But if it is talking about a record of sin, then it is merely saying that if we say that we have never sinned, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. That is talking about the past; not the present or the future.
As concerning the present and the future, it should be clear that, whether John is using hyperbole or saying it literally, those who are born of God "cannot sin"...interpret that as you please (but be sure to ask the Holy Spirit what He means by it and then heed His voice as to the interpretation).
Where is the other Jethro?You are righteous...just not in word and deed, but in regard to not having any sin guilt.
You are righteous insofar as you do not have the guilt of sin remaining that you should be regarded as unrighteous. And not just that, but you have had the righteousness of God put in it's place.
If the interpretation is as I say, then it applies to believers; in saying that all believers have sinned in their past (while they may not continue to sin in their present and future).1 John 1:8, (and verses 6 and 10), are addressing those who walk in darkness-sin.
He's saying that the Lord can absolve him of guilt while he continues in a lifestyle of sinning.Where is the other Jethro?
Did you switch "teams"?
If you don't commit sin, you won't have any "sin guilt".
Obedience appears to be a condition for having the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:32).Obedience is what is expected of us if we want to be saved.
Only if those walking in darkness are saying they are believers.All those verses apply to believers. He is a believer writing to other believers and those who merely claim to be believers. He is not writing to unbelievers. The whole point is that believers, and those who think they are, would look at how they're living and consider whether their lives are characterized by sin or by righteousness. If their lives are characterized by sin, then they are actually walking in darkness. Yet, those who walk in the light still sin, and so need to confess those sins to receive forgiveness.
"IF".Again, that does not at all fit the context. He is a believer writing to other believers--"we," "our," "us"--but even more than that, those who are his "little children," those he knows are believers because they are likely his spiritual children. He is telling them that if they sin there is an advocate. And this just after he told them that if they claim to be without sin, they are self-deceived, do not have the truth, make God a liar, and don't have His word in them.
I'ld say telling lies and stealing from work characterizes the unbeliever.Only if their lives are characterized by sin. Again, John makes this clear in chapter 3.
God is light...right? (1 John 1:5)No, they absolutely cannot. John clearly states otherwise. Again, this continues to ignore the context, including that John states the need to continual confession of sins. I don't see how your position can account for such a statement.
No, it doesn't. Both Paul and John make this clear.
Where in scripture is wrong-doing ever "covered up"?Like all things, interpret it in the context of the whole counsel of scripture.
Not rightly dividing John's teaching out from the rest of the word of God about the subject will lead you to the damnation of failing to be the perfectly behaved person you are convinced you must be in order to be saved when Jesus comes back.
Ok, and isn't it nice that since the gifts of repentance from sin and rebirth from God's seed we can fulfil that law perfectly?We don't operate on the principle of attempting to obey a set of do's and don't as believers.
Rather, because we have faith in Christ, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in our hearts; which is the fulfilling of the law.
We focus on one commandment: to love one another: and everything else falls into place.
When we simply love, we inadvertently keep the law (Romans 13:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6).
Right, we are dead to the Law of Moses' circumcision, dietary rules, tithing, sabbath keeping, etc.Under the law to Christ (as concerning obedience). 1 Corinthians 9:21 (kjv), Hebrews 8:8-10, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10; Romans 5:5, Romans 8:4.
As concerning condemnation, I am not under the law (Romans 6:14), am dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), and am delivered from the law (Romans 7:6)
Accommodation for sin is the root of all false doctrine.He's saying that the Lord can absolve him of guilt while he continues in a lifestyle of sinning.
Yep.Obedience appears to be a condition for having the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:32).
If he can't say no to a drink, he is still an alcoholic.If he has a moment of weakness does that mean he's an alcoholic? No, of course not.
If he goes back to a lifestyle of drinking, that is when he can not call himself a sober, ex-alcoholic.