Nope because I know that the teachings of the Watch Tower are false as you have found yourself taken in by this occult that by name only they claim they are Christians, plus the only ones who Christ is coming back for.
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.
- Thread starter CherubRam
- Start date
What does this have to do with the question I asked about the NWT.
Christ is a created being according to the bible
Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.
Christ Pre-existed.
John 6:41
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’ ?”
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.
John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”
John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
John 17:5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
John 17:24
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
Proverbs 8
1 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gate leading into the city,
at the entrance, she cries aloud:
4 “To you, O people, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
5 You who are simple, gain prudence;
you who are foolish, set your hearts on it.
6 Listen, for I have trustworthy things to say;
I open my lips to speak what is right.
7 My mouth speaks what is true,
for my lips detest wickedness.
8 All the words of my mouth are just;
none of them is crooked or perverse.
9 To the discerning all of them are right;
they are upright to those who have found knowledge.
10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,
11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.
12 “I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.
(See Isaiah 11:2.)
13 To fear the Lord is to hate evil;
I hate pride and arrogance,
evil behavior and perverse speech.
14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine;
I have insight, I have power.
15 By me kings reign
and rulers issue decrees that are just;
16 by me princes govern,
and nobles—all who rule on earth.
17 I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.
18 With me are riches and honor,
enduring wealth and prosperity.
19 My fruit is better than fine gold;
what I yield surpasses choice silver.
20 I walk in the way of righteousness,
along the paths of justice,
21 bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me
and making their treasuries full.
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
32 “Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
34 Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35 For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”
"Messiah of Aaron and Israel." Priest and nation, Knowledge and wisdom.
Dead Sea Scrolls: The Damascus Rule.#6. "But God remembered the Covenant with the forefathers, and He raised from Aaron men of discernment and from Israel men of wisdom,"
The Community Rule (1QS) D.S.S. #9. "until there shall come the prophet and Messiah of Aaron and Israel".
Aaron and Israel: Aaron was the high priest of the nation Israel.
Yahshua is the Messiah of Aaron and Israel.
Isaiah 11:2
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD...
Luke 2:40-47. 40. And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him. 47. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
1Cor 1:30. It is because of him that you are in Messiah Yahshua, who has become for us wisdom from God...
Colossians 2
1I want you to know how much I am struggling for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Isaiah 11:2
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD -
Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
Christ was formed in the beginning of creation by Yahwah.
Christ Pre-existed.
John 6:41
At this the Jews there began to grumble about him because he said, “I am the bread that came down from heaven.”
John 6:42
They said, “Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, ‘I came down from heaven’ ?”
John 8:42
Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me.
John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Yahshua answered, “before Abraham was born, I existed!”
John 10:36
what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?
John 17:5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.
John 17:24
“Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world.
Proverbs 8
1 Does not wisdom call out?
Does not understanding raise her voice?
2 At the highest point along the way,
where the paths meet, she takes her stand;
3 beside the gate leading into the city,
at the entrance, she cries aloud:
4 “To you, O people, I call out;
I raise my voice to all mankind.
5 You who are simple, gain prudence;
you who are foolish, set your hearts on it.
6 Listen, for I have trustworthy things to say;
I open my lips to speak what is right.
7 My mouth speaks what is true,
for my lips detest wickedness.
8 All the words of my mouth are just;
none of them is crooked or perverse.
9 To the discerning all of them are right;
they are upright to those who have found knowledge.
10 Choose my instruction instead of silver,
knowledge rather than choice gold,
11 for wisdom is more precious than rubies,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.
12 “I, wisdom, dwell together with prudence;
I possess knowledge and discretion.
(See Isaiah 11:2.)
13 To fear the Lord is to hate evil;
I hate pride and arrogance,
evil behavior and perverse speech.
14 Counsel and sound judgment are mine;
I have insight, I have power.
15 By me kings reign
and rulers issue decrees that are just;
16 by me princes govern,
and nobles—all who rule on earth.
17 I love those who love me,
and those who seek me find me.
18 With me are riches and honor,
enduring wealth and prosperity.
19 My fruit is better than fine gold;
what I yield surpasses choice silver.
20 I walk in the way of righteousness,
along the paths of justice,
21 bestowing a rich inheritance on those who love me
and making their treasuries full.
22 “The Lord brought me forth as the first of his works,
before his deeds of old;
23 I was formed long ages ago,
at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
24 When there were no watery depths, I was given birth,
when there were no springs overflowing with water;
25 before the mountains were settled in place,
before the hills, I was given birth,
26 before he made the world or its fields
or any of the dust of the earth.
27 I was there when he set the heavens in place,
when he marked out the horizon on the face of the deep,
28 when he established the clouds above
and fixed securely the fountains of the deep,
29 when he gave the sea its boundary
so the waters would not overstep his command,
and when he marked out the foundations of the earth.
30 Then I was constantly at his side.
I was filled with delight day after day,
rejoicing always in his presence,
31 rejoicing in his whole world
and delighting in mankind.
32 “Now then, my children, listen to me;
blessed are those who keep my ways.
33 Listen to my instruction and be wise;
do not disregard it.
34 Blessed are those who listen to me,
watching daily at my doors,
waiting at my doorway.
35 For those who find me find life
and receive favor from the Lord.
36 But those who fail to find me harm themselves;
all who hate me love death.”
"Messiah of Aaron and Israel." Priest and nation, Knowledge and wisdom.
Dead Sea Scrolls: The Damascus Rule.#6. "But God remembered the Covenant with the forefathers, and He raised from Aaron men of discernment and from Israel men of wisdom,"
The Community Rule (1QS) D.S.S. #9. "until there shall come the prophet and Messiah of Aaron and Israel".
Aaron and Israel: Aaron was the high priest of the nation Israel.
Yahshua is the Messiah of Aaron and Israel.
Isaiah 11:2
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD...
Luke 2:40-47. 40. And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was upon him. 47. Everyone who heard him was amazed at his understanding and his answers.
1Cor 1:30. It is because of him that you are in Messiah Yahshua, who has become for us wisdom from God...
Colossians 2
1I want you to know how much I am struggling for you and for those at Laodicea, and for all who have not met me personally. 2My purpose is that they may be encouraged in heart and united in love, so that they may have the full riches of complete understanding, in order that they may know the mystery of God, namely, Christ, 3in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
Isaiah 11:2
The Spirit of the LORD will rest on him— the Spirit of wisdom and of understanding, the Spirit of counsel and of power, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD -
And, yet, there are numerous passages that you are ignoring, which means these are all out of context.
Corrupted scriptures do not count as biblical truth.
I am a Judaic Christian which is a Protestant type Christian. My beliefs are based upon the original Orthodox Judaism, that is under the New Covenant.
You have never proven this claim; I don’t think you actually proved any of your claims.
Then why are you teaching that of the doctrines of the Watch Tower or does Orthodox Judaism believe the same false doctrines. Oh, I just looked it up as they both believe the same thing about the Trinity/Deity of Christ being a false doctrine. So basically you believe the father of lies that come against the word of God. OK, got it.
BTW, none of us have ever tried to teach you that God is three persons, but that Jesus and the Holy Spirit is a part of the Godhead.
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The word Godhead is not in the original text of the bible. I came up as a Baptist, but after much study have had a change of heart.
Apparently you do not read what I write.
I have read most of what you have written. You have made claims and offered your own interpretations of scripture, but for the vast majority of them, if not all, you have yet to provide a legitimate source to back any of them up. That you think the Bible teaches God evolved says everything I need to know.
The word Godhead is only found in the NT. elohut is the Hebrew for Godhead that means Deity or divinity as there are hints of the Trinity found in the OT that lays a foundation for the later revelation concerning the Trinity as I could give you those verses, but this website will explain this https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-in-the-Old-Testament.html
In the NT Godhead is mentioned three times
Act 17:29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Col 2:6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:
Col 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
The term "Godhead" is an English variant of the word "godhood" and was first introduced by John Wycliffe (1330-1384 C.E.) in English Bible versions as godhede.
The word "Godhead" is a translation of three different Greek words, theion (meaning "divinity, deity", # 2304 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Acts 17:29, and theiotēs (meaning "divinity, divine nature", # 2305 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Romans 1:20, and theotēs (meaning "deity", # 2320 in Thayer's Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament) at Colossians 2:9.
To translate three different Greek words as one word is deviously incorrect. This is not unlike having three different names for one street on a map (with the real name hidden), so that when a person used it, he wound up lost. Likewise of those who read Bibles with "Godhead" in it, thereby misleading a person that the trinity is "real".
NIV
Acts 17
29 “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by human design and skill.
Romans 1
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.
Colossians 2
9 For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
KJV
Acts 17
29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.
Romans 1
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Colossians 2
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Yahwah said He formed before any other.
Isaiah 43:10
“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me.
The word "was" is not in the original text.
Your verses show Christ existed, which are what the Lord states about Himself always, see Deuteronomy 32.
FACT 1. there is no other god, who kills and makes alive, ( as the only God, the Son, also does as the Father, the only God, to raise the dead and quickens them, so the Son quickens and raises whom He will.)
FACT 2. God lifts up HIs hand to heaven and says He lives for ever. ( Christ is that Word of wisdom, who was in the beginning with God, same beginning, who made all things.)
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Remember FACT 2, the Lord holding HIs hand to heaven and saying He lives for ever, so Jesus Christ the Son of God is ABLE to save them that come unto God BY HIM, as we SEE HE EVER LIVES , TO MAKE INTERCESSION FOR THEM.
Being born again, by the Word of God, which LIVES AND ABIDES FOR EVER.
Jesus the Son of God testifies, ( holds up HIs hand to heaven and says, I WI/LL FOR EVER. Deuteronomy 32:39-40.) He is He that lives and was dead, and BEHOLD, He is ALIVE FOR EVER MORE. ( because as Acts 2:24 testifies, IT WAS NOT POSSIBLE THAT JESUS CHRIST THE SON OF GOD SHOULD BE HELD IN DEATH.)
Remembering it is just the Lord who sits on the throne who lives for ever. ( the throne of God AND OF THE LAMB, is WHO SITS ON THE THRONE FOR EVER AND EVER.)
They swear by Him that lives for ever, and ever ( God and the Lamb) who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein. ( ( the Word in the beginning with God who created all things. John 1:1-3.
The throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him. ( Him who they serve is the Lord Jesus Christ. Luke 12:3637.)
Acts 2:24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.
Revelation 4:9 And when those beasts give glory and honour and thanks to him that sat on the throne, who liveth for ever and ever,
Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
Revelation 10:6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
Luke 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
God formed no other god, there are none besides Him.
Deuteronomy 32:39 See now that I, even I, am he, and there is no god with me: I kill, and I make alive; I wound, and I heal: neither is there any that can deliver out of my hand.
40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever.
Too much testimony, to put it down to errors in translation.
Jesus had no beginning of days, because we are to believe that He had no end of life, ( rise to life eternal.) so we believe also in rising from the dead to life.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
Jesus had no beginning of days, because we are to believe that He had no end of life, ( rise to life eternal.) so we believe also in rising from the dead to life.
Colossians 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
Hebrews 7:3 Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
“And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.” Revelation 22:12
- I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last.
Jesus Christ is LORD.
JLB
What specific translation(s) support that? If there was no god before God, yet God evolved, as you claim, then where did God come from?
You say you’re a Judaic Christian, yet this belief is neither Judaic nor Christian. That God has always existed, that there never was a time when he was not, is foundational to both religions. If God came into existence at some point, then that would be the beginning of time. That means he exists inside of time and couldn’t possibly be omnipresent or omniscient.
Further, if “Before me no god was formed” means, as you imply, that there was a time when God did not exist, then “nor shall there be any after me” implies that there will be a time when he will cease to exist (if you’re going to be consistent in your claim). But that clearly goes against passages which clearly say God is eternal and immortal.
So, if there ever was a time when your god did not exist, then he is not the God of the Bible; he is a god of your own making, which is a result of your continual proof-texting. You are on exceedingly dangerous ground.
Christ had no Father until Yahwah adopted him.
Beginning of days without end of life
This is how it should read:
Hebrews 7:3
Without father or mother, without genealogy, beginning of days without end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.
Yahshua was created by Yahwah our Father.
Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.
Beginning of days without end of life
This is how it should read:
Hebrews 7:3
Without father or mother, without genealogy, beginning of days without end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.
Yahshua was created by Yahwah our Father.
Proverbs 8:23
I was formed long ages ago, at the very beginning, when the world came to be.