Christian; merely a label?

[Imagican]

I wonder now days if we should even pair ourselves with those that have 'labeled themselves'; Christian.

We can clearly see the words of Christ in that there will be those that when stepping to Him will point out the 'wonderous things' that they have done in His name. His answer: 'I don't even KNOW you'. Is there ANY doubt in the minds or hearts of those that understand this offering that these will CERTAINLY be 'labeled Christians'?

When I look around me and see ALL those that choose to be contained within such a label, I find that there is NOTHING cohesive or binding in such a label. For the 'topless dancer' who claims to KNOW Christ and BE a 'christian' to the MOBSTERS murdering and stealing as a WAY OF LIFE, these TOO claim to BE Christian.

So, SHOULD we take comfort in such 'labels'? We have been told not to even sIt and eat with sinners. Yet we include ourselves in this 'namesake' without a thought concerning it.

I, for one, do NOT tell people that I am a Christian. When someone asks, i simply state that I know and love God and His Son. For to 'say' that I am a Christian is offering LITTLE, if ANYTHING so far as TRUTH in my beliefs or way of life.

The Methodist do NOT practice 'Christianity' as the "Baptists''. Nor do the 'Catholics' practice as the ''Pentacostals''. Yet ALL call themselves 'Christian'. A bit confusing isn't it?

Therefore, does a simple statement that one BELIEVE'S in Christ truly MAKE one a 'Christian'? or, has this merely become a 'label' that has little if ANY meaning when it comes to KNOWING what one TRULY believes and follows?

Blessings,

MEC

 

[JoJo]

You've brought up some good points.

My ex claims to be a Christian and says he has a relationship with Christ. BUT he lies, steals, cheats, and is totally wrapped up in the pursuit of money and material things. I don't want to doubt his Christianity, and I know we all sin. But sometimes I wonder if he were a true Christian, wouldn't he want to change his lifestyle? I keep waiting for the day when God finally sets him straight.

 

[Vic C.]

Very well MEC, I do not consider you a Christian any longer. :P

The Methodist do NOT practice 'Christianity' as the "Baptists''. Nor do the 'Catholics' practice as the ''Pentacostals''. Yet ALL call themselves 'Christian'. A bit confusing isn't it?

Not confusing for those who believe and understand the diversity within the Body.

Rom 12:3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
Rom 12:4 For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:
Rom 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
Rom 12:6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;
Rom 12:7 Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching;
Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness.
Rom 12:9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.
Rom 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;
Rom 12:11 Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;
Rom 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;
Rom 12:13 Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.
Rom 12:14 Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.
Rom 12:15 Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.
Rom 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.
Rom 12:17 Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men.
Rom 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

All I can do now is pray over your discontent with the ekklesia of God I sincerely mean that Mike; don't throw up so many stumbling blocks between yourself and other believers.

 

[Imagican]

You've brought up some good points.

My ex claims to be a Christian and says he has a relationship with Christ. BUT he lies, steals, cheats, and is totally wrapped up in the pursuit of money and material things. I don't want to doubt his Christianity, and I know we all sin. But sometimes I wonder if he were a true Christian, wouldn't he want to change his lifestyle? I keep waiting for the day when God finally sets him straight.

Jojo,

Each of us ONLY knows what we have been GIVEN in understanding.

We, on our OWN, cannot change so far as living for Christ is concerned. When Christ LIVES within our hearts HE does the changing. We become comformed to that which Christ IS. But IF we deny Him into our hearts, it doesn't matter what we SAY, we are STILL living in the flesh.

How are we 'transformed'? We are transformed through CONVICTION. So long as we are WILLING, The Spirit will CONVICT us when we err and convict us when we follow in truth. And THAT Is HOW WE ARE CHANGED. Those that HEED these 'convictions' WILL eventually STOP doing that which brings about NEGATIVE conviction. Those that heed will KNOW when that which they do is RIGHTEOUS. The Spirit is an amazing entity. For through it, we ARE able to BECOME the loving entities that WE were DESIGNED to BE.

So, as you noted, the points that I have brought up ARE valid. For there are SO MANY that 'claim' to BE Christians whos hearts are FAR FAR FROM HIM.

Oh, and let me add this: Those that DO live FOR Christ will KNOW that the words that I offer ARE Truth. For The Spirit is the SOURCE of these words and it IS able to convict. We WILL know The Spirit THROUGH The Spirit. As Paul offered, The Saints ARE Subject TO THE SAINTS. The Spirit RECOGNIZES itself and through conviction we CAN know those that LIVE IN IT.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Imagican]

Vic,

I appreciate your concern but I think that you have chosen to follow a different path than myself.

Do you remember the RICH MAN? He believed that he was DOING everything that he NEEDED in order to BE a 'good jew'. He heard Christ and asked him what ELSE he NEEDED to DO in order to gain what Christ offered in His words. When TOLD to sell everything that he possessed and come back and follow Christ, the man walked away in tears.

ONE BAD APPLE CAN SPOIL THE WHOLE BASKET.

In order to 'follow in truth', we have been COMMANDED to 'separate ourselves' from those that CHOOSE to remain IN THE FLESH.

Do you remember when Christ explained that NO ONE could KNOW Him except it be GIVEN by the Father? MANY Of Christ's followers TURNED and walked away.

While you see discontent in much of what I offer, I can assure you that it is NOT MEANT to be so. IF there is discontent in my heart is the SAME that I can ASSURE you that was shared by Christ AND His apostles. So many, SO CONFUSED, yet UNWILLING to turn TOWARDS the LIGHT.

Your explanation is ONLY valid to a 'degree', (and IMHO a very small degree). All that 'claim' to follow Christ are NOT DOING SO and therefore NOT members of The Body. While there may well BE devoted members of ALL the denominations, I do NOT believe that ALL denominations are following the TRUE Christ. And I don't believe YOU believe this either.

I have witnessed the animosity of practically ALL the members of this forum towards JW's and Mormons, etc......... And I believe that you would openly admit that NOT ALL denominations ARE a 'part of The Body'.

So, rest assured that the 'stumbling block' that you perceive, to me, doesn't exist. If my words are able to turn ANYONE 'away' from Christ, then they didn't have a chance to START with. And as far as myself is concerned, please, if you feel the urge or desire to 'pray for me', by ALL MEANS, I will graciously accept it and offer thanks for it.

And Vic, I pray that what I offer IS able to offer edification TO the TRUE Body of Christ, HIS Church. And I can assure you that I would do NOTHING in my understanding to EVER speak out AGAINST the TRUE Church of Christ. That is basically the PREMISE of this thread. How do we separate ourselves from that which PRETENDS?

While my views may well SEEM to be 'against' what most accept as their beliefs, if one really READS what I have to offer, it is perfectly clear that my words ONLY disagree with 'beliefs' and NOT The Word.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Vic C.]

MEC, I've been a little emotional lately. Bear with me.

My concern is how sometimes, we, who call themselves Christians, treat each other. This is why I bookended that passage in bold. Many want to proclaim their doctrine to be correct and in the process, they shoot from the hip. Paul would say this isn't always the correct approach. When he corrected errant doctrine, how did he do it?

Yes, labels...

 

[ProphetMark]

'Christian' was originally a nickname that just caught on wasn't it? Maybe, to disinguish ourselves from people who call themselves christians but aren't really, we ought to just call ourselves bible-bashers or something.

 

[Imagican]

'Christian' was originally a nickname that just caught on wasn't it? Maybe, to disinguish ourselves from people who call themselves christians but aren't really, we ought to just call ourselves bible-bashers or something.

Actually it was a quite derragatory label used by the Jews and Romans to distinguish those that they LOOKED DOWN UPON as followers of what THEY BELIEVED to be the false religion of Christ.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[mutzrein]

Yes, sadly I have to agree that the word 'Christian' has very much become a mere label. It means so many different things to different people that it almost means nothing. That is why I hesitate when asked if I'm a Christian.

Many of course will tell you that 'Christian' means 'Christ-like' but fail to grasp the significance. I was listening this morning to my audio-bible and was struck by the the scripture which says, "He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." Wow! Who can make such a boast?

 

[Imagican]

Someone asked me the other day,"So, you're a Christian?'' I answered with, 'not really'. I know and love God and His Son. they looked at me kind of puzzled like I'm sure is the same reaction that I receive here most of the time.

But, I try my BEST to be as honest with others as I'm able.

I don't believe we NEED labels in order to love God, Christ and our neighbors.

What a TERRIBLE witness it is to CLAIM to BE Christian and then exhibit ANYTHING BUT love to our neighbors. It gives OTHERS the idea that it's OK to be 'whatever' and BE a Christian. No wonder the world is in the shape that it's in.

Pastors lying, cheating, stealing, committing adutery. And then others witnessing this and being able to say to themselves, "See, they are 'screwed up' too".

Paul offered that a Bishop MUST be BLAMELESS. Are we to ACCEPT this or simply settle for 'something less' because it is SO difficult to FIND someone that is 'blameless'.

Gay pators? Paul says that a Bishop MUST BE the husband of ONE WIFE and HAVE CHILDREN.

Yet look around at what is accepted in the 'Christian Community'.

I don't know. I just WONDER if we are suppose to be 'playing a game' or 'BEING REAL'. Sometimes it seems that in order to 'fit in' one is REQUIRED to 'play the game'. And as SOON as one becomes 'real', they stick out like a 'sore thumb'.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Cornelius]

The Bible is clear that not all who call themselves Christians are in fact Christians.

Mat 13:24 Another parable set he before them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man that sowed good seed in his field:
Mat 13:25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares also among the wheat, and went away.
Mat 13:26 But when the blade sprang up and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

And they sit with us in church

Jud 1:12 These are they who are hidden rocks in your love-feasts when they feast with you, shepherds that without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn leaves without fruit, twice dead, (born again, and then died again) plucked up by the roots;

 

[Cornelius]

What we call church today is lamentable. Some cannot see it and are happy with it as it is.

God is not.

Eze 9:4 And Jehovah said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof.

The Catholics think they are THE church, but commit the worst sins regarding changing the Word.
The Protestants think they have "reformed" and walked straight into the Nicolaitan error again ,which they copied from the Catholics. They threw out the five fold ministry and still call it church.

Pentecostals think because they speak in tongues, they have it all, but they too are still in the Nicolaitan error and allow Jezebel to teach and speak and rule.

Charismatics have gone a way that few have dared to walk. Many walk after false signs and "hear the voice of the Spirit in their ears" and leave the Word of God behind, in favor of the "voices"

I know, that this forum read my posts and think of me as rude. But in reality I am only sad, and I weep for my brothers and sister, who have been trapped by religion and have been lost in the dogma of man. The church do not teach the true gospel anymore. We have no real teachers left.

When I am angry, it is because I see the damage in some of you. Then I am indeed angry. Not with you, but with those who damaged you.

See, there is only one way to eternal life and even the most stubborn, must see that even on this forum, there is not "one way". That means that some of us are not going to make it, no matter what "they" teach you, because some of you are being taught by men, who are also not going to heaven.

Here they are. LOOK, they are SHEPHERDS :

Jud 1:12 These are they who are hidden rocks in your love-feasts when they feast with you, shepherds that without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn leaves without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13 Wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved forever.

Lost shepherds on their way to hell, are teaching some of you.And the answer we all give it: Not in MY church. Yea I know , I use to sit in those churches, where the dead taught the dead. I use to think how lucky I am to be saved and know the 'truth".

How does a deceived person ever know THEY are deceived? Most never ask God , so they never know.

So here is something: If you think you are NOT deceived, why not go to the Lord and say: "Lord if I AM decieved in any way, would you please show me where and how. I really only want to walk in YOUR truth."

 

[Cornelius]

I can also tell you, that if you cannot pray that prayer in all honesty, you most probably are deceived and have no heart to follow truth.

 

[stranger]

What we call church today is lamentable. Some cannot see it and are happy with it as it is.

God is not.

Eze 9:4 And Jehovah said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry over all the abominations that are done in the midst thereof.

The Catholics think they are THE church, but commit the worst sins regarding changing the Word.
The Protestants think they have "reformed" and walked straight into the Nicolaitan error again ,which they copied from the Catholics. They threw out the five fold ministry and still call it church.

Pentecostals think because they speak in tongues, they have it all, but they too are still in the Nicolaitan error and allow Jezebel to teach and speak and rule.

Charismatics have gone a way that few have dared to walk. Many walk after false signs and "hear the voice of the Spirit in their ears" and leave the Word of God behind, in favor of the "voices"

I know, that this forum read my posts and think of me as rude. But in reality I am only sad, and I weep for my brothers and sister, who have been trapped by religion and have been lost in the dogma of man. The church do not teach the true gospel anymore. We have no real teachers left.

When I am angry, it is because I see the damage in some of you. Then I am indeed angry. Not with you, but with those who damaged you.

See, there is only one way to eternal life and even the most stubborn, must see that even on this forum, there is not "one way". That means that some of us are not going to make it, no matter what "they" teach you, because some of you are being taught by men, who are also not going to heaven.

Here they are. LOOK, they are SHEPHERDS :

Jud 1:12 These are they who are hidden rocks in your love-feasts when they feast with you, shepherds that without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn leaves without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13 Wild waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, for whom the blackness of darkness hath been reserved forever.

Lost shepherds on their way to hell, are teaching some of you.And the answer we all give it: Not in MY church. Yea I know , I use to sit in those churches, where the dead taught the dead. I use to think how lucky I am to be saved and know the 'truth".

How does a deceived person ever know THEY are deceived? Most never ask God , so they never know.

So here is something: If you think you are NOT deceived, why not go to the Lord and say: "Lord if I AM decieved in any way, would you please show me where and how. I really only want to walk in YOUR truth."

Cornelius,

To be fair to what's out there OUTSIDE your experience - are all the churches upon the face the of the earth to be painted with the same brush?

blessings

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius,

To be fair to what's out there OUTSIDE your experience - are all the churches upon the face the of the earth to be painted with the same brush?

blessings

Well, if we look at what the Bible says, there is always a remnant that is still in truth. Just as in the time of Jesus, the majority of the "church" or "people of God" were in apostasy and Jesus called a remnant out.The same today, but you will not find them in a denomination. Denominations are the "daughters" of Jerusalem and they are not the Shulamite (in Song of Songs)

You will find the Bride walking outside all of the denominations. No single "church" or "Church" has her, because she belongs to the Groom. She walks outside of dogma and follows the Lord wherever He goes. Out of her mouth comes no lie, for she speaks the Word only. She has cleansed herself through and readied herself, for the Groom .(Rev 14) She has escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust and became a partaker in the devine nature 2Pe 1:4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in that world by lust.

She is free from the hidden stones at her love-feasts, she left them sitting in the pews.Jud 1:12 These are they who are hidden rocks in your love-feasts when they feast with you, shepherds that without fear feed themselves; clouds without water, carried along by winds; autumn leaves without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; She heared the call Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues: and she left.

So do not look for her where she cannot be found anymore.

C

 

[Imagican]

Cornelius,

Nice posts. I feel your pain my brother. And you have pointed out what I have attempted to say on numerous occasion only to have others deny it over and over.

Blessings,

MEC

 

[Cornelius]

Cornelius,

Nice posts. I feel your pain my brother. And you have pointed out what I have attempted to say on numerous occasion only to have others deny it over and over.

Blessings,

MEC

We still have many of the Bride that is still trapped in the denominations, but the Lord will bring them out too. That is partly why a Tribulation is now upon us. The apostate church cannot see the timing, because true to the Word, they are sleeping and it is coming to them as a thief in the night.1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief:
1Th 5:5 for ye are all sons of light, and sons of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness;
1Th 5:6 so then let us not sleep, as do the rest, but let us watch and be sober.
The Bride is not sleeping and she is ready. She has seen the first buds appearing on the fig tree and know that the time is here.

You can tell the sleeping church that the time is here, but they will not hear. In fact they cannot hear.They truly get angry when you tell them that the time is up.They scoff and laugh. But...2Pe 3:3 knowing this first, that in the last days mockers shall come with mockery, walking after their own lusts,
2Pe 3:4 and saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for, from the day that the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

[Cornelius]

Jer 23:1 Woe unto the shepherds that destroy and scatter (Denominations) the sheep of my pasture! saith Jehovah.
Jer 23:2 Therefore thus saith Jehovah, the God of Israel, against the shepherds that feed my people: Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them; behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith Jehovah.
Jer 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all the countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and multiply.

 

[Cornelius]

Jer 50:6 My people have been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray; they have turned them away on the mountains; they have gone from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting-place.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.

 

[whirlwind]

Jer 50:6 My people have been lost sheep: their shepherds have caused them to go astray; they have turned them away on the mountains; they have gone from mountain to hill; they have forgotten their resting-place.

Heb 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest hath himself also rested from his works, as God did from his.

Your post made me think of.....

Jeremiah 12:10 Many pastors have destroyed My vineyard, they have trodden My portion under foot, they have made My pleasant portion a desolate wilderness.

13:15-17 Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken. Give glory to the LORD your God, before He cause darkness, and before your feet stumble upon the dark mountains, and, while ye look for light, He turn it into the shadow of death, and make it gross darkness. But if ye will not hear it, my soul shall weep in secret places for your pride; and mine eye shall weep sore, and run down with tars, because the LORD'S flock is carried away captive.