Christian Pacifism, can Christians go to war?

[P31Woman]

You replied as an American. Most people in the world don't get to say "no" to military call. How do you suppose God would have them respond. Pray that God sends me a Christian guard.

Good question.
When Paul and Silas went to prison, they just kept praising the Lord!
I guess that's our example.
I will not fear death.
I've given my life to Jesus.
I firmly believe no one can harm me unless he gives the okay.
And then, who am I to argue with him?

I think that is what someone who holds your views must do.

You mentioned conscientious objector. Not all Chrisitans can honestly make that claim. It would be a lie for me to make such claim and I would love to figure out a way around the draft if I were called up....I am a major chicken. The only thing my conscious would allow me to do is be drafted. Then once in the military if I believed God telling me it's wrong I would have the face be put in military jail or whatever it is they do to folks like that.

I think this is honestly a Romans 14 thing. I cannot judge you for your beliefs because I believe you are trying your best to do what God is calling you to do. I cannot honestly judge the individual Chrisitan who claims they believe it's God will for them to join the service. (two just left from my youth group this past week)

I believe I am called to say God Bless you both as you seek to do His will in your life and pray God's continued guidance and protection over us all.

 

[P31Woman]

so all the bad guys though the ages should have not been stopped?

I am just calling for Christians to follow CHRIST and his teachings and example on living peaceably, and striving to be peacemakers in the world. How do you reconcile full scale war with those commands? We can easily say, "well what about Hitler, who would have stopped him?" My concern is, how do we reconcile that with the teachings of the NT Scriptures. Is logic and culture our guide and standard, or is Scripture?

My belief is being a peacemaker has to do with helping people come to peace with God not necessarily live in a state of worldly peace. I can be that type of peace maker in the midst of war.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

My belief is being a peacemaker has to do with helping people come to peace with God not necessarily live in a state of worldly peace. I can be that type of peace maker in the midst of war.

If it is possible on your part, be at peace with all people.(Ro 12:18).

It's not just about people coming to peace with God, that's chief of course, but that must naturally flow from a Christian who is a peacemaker with his fellow man. Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called SONS OF GOD. We seek peace and reconciliation with our fellow humanity because God is. He came not to destroy lives, but to save lives.

 

[reba]

so all the bad guys though the ages should have not been stopped?

I am just calling for Christians to follow CHRIST and his teachings and example on living peaceably, and striving to be peacemakers in the world. How do you reconcile full scale war with those commands? We can easily say, "well what about Hitler, who would have stopped him?" My concern is, how do we reconcile that with the teachings of the NT Scriptures. Is logic and culture our guide and standard, or is Scripture?

Please note I do not believe all wars are just .... I do believe some are ..... ie: ridding the world of Hitler just Nam not .... I see Christ as one who would protect the weaker... Being God, a weapon would not be needed.... As a man who would not do, what ever, to stop the bad guy from beating a child ? It is not a stretch in my heart/mind to say being men who would not do what ever to stop Hitler?

The Boston bombers one is dead if that is what it took to keep him from killing again o well.

Joh_15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

 

[jasoncran]

You replied as an American. Most people in the world don't get to say "no" to military call. How do you suppose God would have them respond. Pray that God sends me a Christian guard.

Good question.
When Paul and Silas went to prison, they just kept praising the Lord!
I guess that's our example.
I will not fear death.
I've given my life to Jesus.
I firmly believe no one can harm me unless he gives the okay.
And then, who am I to argue with him?

I think that is what someone who holds your views must do.

You mentioned conscientious objector. Not all Chrisitans can honestly make that claim. It would be a lie for me to make such claim and I would love to figure out a way around the draft if I were called up....I am a major chicken. The only thing my conscious would allow me to do is be drafted. Then once in the military if I believed God telling me it's wrong I would have the face be put in military jail or whatever it is they do to folks like that.

I think this is honestly a Romans 14 thing. I cannot judge you for your beliefs because I believe you are trying your best to do what God is calling you to do. I cannot honestly judge the individual Chrisitan who claims they believe it's God will for them to join the service. (two just left from my youth group this past week)

I believe I am called to say God Bless you both as you seek to do His will in your life and pray God's continued guidance and protection over us all.

coward! lol. I was scared when I went the only time I have been deployed. still am but I have signed up and I will go if need be. I came close last year and I wasn't sent. reba remembers that.

 

[jasoncran]

conscientus objector is only two faiths. all others must make their case to the army or whatever branch. those faiths are quakers and the amish.

 

[Mountain Man]

Jason, my case is war.
I've been there and had family and friends there.
War is hell and christians don't belong in hell.

Then they should be willing to endure the Hell that exist because no war was fought,let them endure the Hell of slavery because no one fought for freedom,let them endure the Hell of religious persecution because no one fought for that,let them endure the Hell that exist when evil reigns supreme...war is indeed Hell,one simply needs to decide which Hell to exist in.

 

[Mike S]

conscientus objector is only two faiths. all others must make their case to the army or whatever branch. those faiths are quakers and the amish.

My father-in-law, a Quaker, was a conscientious objector during World War II. It was a very unpopular position during that war, and, being from a prominent New York City family, he took a lot of heat for it. He didn't waiver in his moral principles, and did alternative service in conservation projects for the duration of the war. It was then that he met my mother-in-law, also a Quaker, as she worked as a high school teacher in the Manzanar relocation camp. She had been a teacher in Compton - mostly students of Japanese descent - when the Japanese were forced into camps, and she went with her students to continue teaching.

I never challenged there moral principles on pacifism, and they never challenged mine, I having served six years in the navy during the Vietnam War.

 

[jasoncran]

personally that doesn't bother me. its when they that are try to convict me who is in to leave the army and so forth.

 

[gr8grace]

Jason, my case is war.
I've been there and had family and friends there.
War is hell and christians don't belong in hell.

Then they should be willing to endure the Hell that exist because no war was fought,let them endure the Hell of slavery because no one fought for freedom,let them endure the Hell of religious persecution because no one fought for that,let them endure the Hell that exist when evil reigns supreme...war is indeed Hell,one simply needs to decide which Hell to exist in.

Agreed.

 

[Butch5]

Heb 11:32-34~~32 And what more shall I say? For time will fail me if I tell of Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, of David and Samuel and the prophets, 33 who by faith conquered kingdoms, performed [acts of] righteousness, obtained promises, shut the mouths of lions, 34 quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, from weakness were made strong, became mighty in war, put foreign armies to flight. (hero's of the faith)

The military image of the Lord Jesus Christ:
A. He fought for the Jews of the Exodus generation (EXODUS 14:13,14).
B. He fought for the conquest generation (JOSHUA 10:8-14).
C. He fought for Israel during the Assyrian campaign (ISAIAH 36:1-37:38).
D. He will fight for Israel at Second Advent (ZECHARIAH 14:1-3; REVELATION
19:11-21).

We have divine institutions From God, Nation, Family, wife, freedom. Christians Fight and die for these God given Institutions.

I think the question is in regard to the Christian not the Lord.

So who do you suppose the MEN(real men) were in Hebrews 11:32-34? Were they not Christians?

Luke 14:31~~ war demands planning.

National freedom comes courtesy of the military.

If it wasn't for the Client nation of God, with believers and unbelievers alike ,most of this world would be speaking German.

Christians need to be ready to defend the nation that God has given them and Gods chosen people.

1 Thessalonians 5:3~~While they are saying, "Peace and safety!" then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman with child, and they will not escape.

A strong defense~~ Numbers 2

He trained David for battle~~Psalm 18:34

This is just common sense boys. A person breaks into my home and threatens my wife and family, God not only gives the believer the Go ahead to killem ,He gives unbelievers that freedom also.

Men have been so feminized by this world and Christians have been so influenced by "co-exist" that we think we have to tolerate people that threaten our God given right to freedom and privacy. Not me.

If Christians did not Go to war and defend what God has Given us, we would have lost this great Nation(USA) long ago. Heck if we didn't go to war we Americans would be under a King and Queen, that would not give us the freedom to believe what we wanted. And it was Christian Ideals that founded this Nation.

Why, don't you believe that God is capable of protecting a nation? You are right about one thing, this is easy. We can see from Church history that the Church "didn't" teach the use violence period, for the first 300 years. Any attempt the Christian makes to support the use of violence must come from the OT since there is nothing to support this idea in the NT. However, the use of violence in the OT was for Israel. I have addressed this attempted support from the OT in an article here, "Should Christians Use Violence".

 

[Butch5]

I think this is good, and I'll add more to the point. Just prior to chapter 13, Romans 12 ends with this:



But then chapter 13 picks right up on that point with this:



We see God delegating authority throughout scripture. In John 17, Jesus prays to the Father and describes authority delegated to Him. Within the Trinity, there is a delegation.

After Jesus said this, he looked toward heaven and prayed:“Father, the hour has come. Glorify your Son, that your Son may glorify you. 2 For you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him.

When civil servants are sworn in, they receive a badge to indicate that they are acting as a representative of the government. They are entrusted to act on behalf of the government. They don't have permission to carry their weapon until they have been sworn in and officially delegated as this representative of the government. So, this comes back to the section of Romans 13 that Mark quoted. Why is Government put in place by God as Romans 13:1 says? What is its function? This chapter says it is to condone what is good and punish what is bad.

The way I see it, soldiers of an army are delegated extensions of the government, and they have the God-Given authority to go to war.

Doulos Iesou, I understand your inner-struggle with this. I have found myself becoming more averse to violence as I continue my walk with the Lord. Except in self defense or the defense of others, I have come to stand opposed to violence, and even then I would only do what is necessary to subdue the assailant. [side note - This was a very well laid out and tempered thread that you constructed. The OP was terrific, though I disagree. I very much appreciate your work here. :yes

But, when Paul wrote Romans 13 there were no Christians in government.

 

[Butch5]

War is a serious matter. Who better to be in the position to make such decisions that christians. People who are going to hit their knees and seek God's guidance and wisdom. Scripture teaches us there is a time for peace and a time for war.

That's why I fully support Chrisitans who serve in our military and government.

Christians will hit their knees and seek God? Let me ask you a question. In the American Revolution there were American Christians killing English Christians and visa versa, do you suppose God was OK with that? In the Civil War there were Northern Christians killing Southern Christians and visa versa, again, was God OK with that? Prior to that in England there were English Christians killing English Christians, do you suppose that God was OK with that?

 

[Butch5]

For those who believe it is OK to kill in self defense I have a question. Are you OK with the fact that by killing someone in self defense you have denied that person any future chance of turning to Christ and being saved?

 

[Butch5]

Jason, my case is war.
I've been there and had family and friends there.
War is hell and christians don't belong in hell.

Then they should be willing to endure the Hell that exist because no war was fought,let them endure the Hell of slavery because no one fought for freedom,let them endure the Hell of religious persecution because no one fought for that,let them endure the Hell that exist when evil reigns supreme...war is indeed Hell,one simply needs to decide which Hell to exist in.

Who is in control, man or God?

 

[Butch5]

I think this subject shows were we "really" place our faith.

 

[reba]

For those who believe it is OK to kill in self defense I have a question. Are you OK with the fact that by killing someone in self defense you have denied that person any future chance of turning to Christ and being saved?

Salvation is not by chance. Who is in control some dude with a gun, etc. or God?

Some folks just use the lives of others for their defense. As in call the cops.

Take it to its ugly end how much harm would one allow to their loved ones?

O gee I see a bad guy are about to mug that old man... so joe Christian drops to his knees starts praying mean while the old man has prayed for help...God sent joe...

 

[Grappler]

If Christians did not Go to war and defend what God has Given us, we would have lost this great Nation(USA) long ago. Heck if we didn't go to war we Americans would be under a King and Queen, that would not give us the freedom to believe what we wanted. And it was Christian Ideals that founded this Nation.

:amen

Are you talking about the same Christians that stole this land from the Indians? Are you talking about this nation that was founded my masons? Are you talking about this "great" nation that accepts abortion and homosexual behavoir? Are you talking about this nation that goes overseas and meddles in other peoples affairs and refuses to even defend it's own southern border? I could go on but you get the point. My primary citizenship is with the kingdom of God...my citizenship with the USA is secondary. We should obey God rather than man.

 

[Mike S]

Imagine the Parable of the Good Samaritan, with a little twist. Knowing that the central message in that parable is "love your neighbor as yourself", how would Christ have told it if, instead of arriving after the man from Jerusalem had already been stripped, robbed, beaten, and left bloody in the road, the Samaritan had arrived while the attack was taking place?

 

[Mountain Man]

For those who believe it is OK to kill in self defense I have a question. Are you OK with the fact that by killing someone in self defense you have denied that person any future chance of turning to Christ and being saved?

The individual has denied himself that chance by attempting murder.

Who is in control, man or God?

God is in control and apparently uses unbelievers to do the dirty work so people like you can live in safety and security while condemning those who secured it for you,my question is why folks like you seldom if ever live in places where your pacifism will actually cost you anything....why do you think that is ?