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Christian, why do you believe you'll go to Heaven?

The inheritance is the land promised to Abraham, it is spoken of a s being in heaven, but, that doesn't mean we'll go there. We are coheirs with Christ and Christ is in heaven.

If you're a born again christian, you will in fact go to heaven. ;)

And you have scriptures that contradict what Jesus said?

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.
 
George, I'm not sure what you're getting at here, but there is nothing in Scripture that says people go to heave. In the passage you quoted Jesus said, I will come again that where I am, you may be also. Clearly in order to be with Christ it requires His coming back here

Mt 5:3 ¶ Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
Mt 5:12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
Mt 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven:
Mt 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven,
Mt 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven:
Mt 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Mt 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.

I could go on and on but my fingers are getting tired:wave

I get paid every two weeks. My employer has my pay safely in an account in Canada. I live in the US. When I am paid, it is given to me. I don't go to the bank in Canada, the pay comes to me...

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Our reward is safely laid up in heaven. When Christ returns, He will bring it to us.
 
Mr 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: (ASV)
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (KJV)
 
Mr 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: (ASV)
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (KJV)

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

And here we see Christ going to heaven and returning. At His return He parcels out rewards and punishment, which explains...

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
 
I think maybe no matter what scripture is posted, some will not accept the clear and evident truth?

George, you're making inferences. You've not posted a single passage of Scripture that states one goes to heaven. However, we have clear statements saying men will live on earth forever. How does an inference overturn a clear statement? God said that His dwelling place will be Jerusalem, forever. Jesus said, 'the meek shall inherit the earth'. He didn't say they'd inherit Heaven.

13 For the LORD hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell; for I have desired it. (Psa 132:13-14 KJV)

Psalm 37 talks about the removal of the wicked. It also refutes the idea that works play no role in salvation.

KJV Psalm 37:1 <A Psalm of David.> Fret not thyself because of evildoers, neither be thou envious against the workers of iniquity.
2 For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb.
3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
6 And he shall bring forth thy righteousness as the light, and thy judgment as the noonday.
7 Rest in the LORD, and wait patiently for him: fret not thyself because of him who prospereth in his way, because of the man who bringeth wicked devices to pass.
8 Cease from anger, and forsake wrath: fret not thyself in any wise to do evil.
9 For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.
10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
11 But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
12 The wicked plotteth against the just, and gnasheth upon him with his teeth.
13 The Lord shall laugh at him: for he seeth that his day is coming.
14 The wicked have drawn out the sword, and have bent their bow, to cast down the poor and needy, and to slay such as be of upright conversation.
15 Their sword shall enter into their own heart, and their bows shall be broken.
16 A little that a righteous man hath is better than the riches of many wicked.
17 For the arms of the wicked shall be broken: but the LORD upholdeth the righteous.
18 The LORD knoweth the days of the upright: and their inheritance shall be for ever.
19 They shall not be ashamed in the evil time: and in the days of famine they shall be satisfied.
20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.
21 The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth.
22 For such as be blessed of him shall inherit the earth; and they that be cursed of him shall be cut off.
23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way.
24 Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand.
25 I have been young, and now am old; yet have I not seen the righteous forsaken, nor his seed begging bread.
26 He is ever merciful, and lendeth; and his seed is blessed.
27 Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell for evermore.
28 For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.
29 The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein for ever.
30 The mouth of the righteous speaketh wisdom, and his tongue talketh of judgment.
31 The law of his God is in his heart; none of his steps shall slide.
32 The wicked watcheth the righteous, and seeketh to slay him.
33 The LORD will not leave him in his hand, nor condemn him when he is judged.
34 Wait on the LORD, and keep his way, and he shall exalt thee to inherit the land: when the wicked are cut off, thou shalt see it.
35 I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree.
36 Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found.
37 Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright: for the end of that man is peace.
38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off.
39 But the salvation of the righteous is of the LORD: he is their strength in the time of trouble.
40 And the LORD shall help them, and deliver them: he shall deliver them from the wicked, and save them, because they trust in him. (Psa 37:1-40 KJV)


It doesn't get much clearer than that. Jesus even quoted verse 11, the meek shall inherit the earth.
 
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Hi George,

This is how the error is perpetuated. Nothing here says that Christians go to Heaven. The kingdom of Heaven is the kingdom that come from Heaven. Your reward is in Heaven and Jesus said when He comes His reward is with Him. People read these passages and infer from them what is not stated.
Excellent point. People have been "brainwashed" by mainstream Christianity for so long that tradition becomes fact but when one takes scripture as a whole and within proper context one sees that we do NOT go to heaven when we die. This teaching probably began with the RCC and carried over to Protestant churches.:)

Hi Grappler,

I agree. Actually, I believe the idea of going to Heaven enter the church before the RCC. The earliest teaching of this that I see is from Clement of Alexandria and Origen in the mid to late 200's. Clement of Alexandria was apparently a fan of Plato because that is where he got the idea from.
Yeah it probably did begin before the RCC....it has it origins in paganism.
 
Excellent point. People have been "brainwashed" by mainstream Christianity for so long that tradition becomes fact but when one takes scripture as a whole and within proper context one sees that we do NOT go to heaven when we die. This teaching probably began with the RCC and carried over to Protestant churches.
No your right some will not make it to heaven, because they do not love the truth.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: (ASV)
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (KJV)
You said i am right....thank you.:)
 
Mr 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: (ASV)
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (KJV)

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

And here we see Christ going to heaven and returning. At His return He parcels out rewards and punishment, which explains...

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
I think that one of the things that some of these people are having problems understanding is that man is mortal and when he dies he stays dead until he is resurrected. When Jesus returns he says that he will resurrect some to eternal life and some to judgment and condemnation. Jesus has not returned yet so neither has anyone been resurrected yet. Another point that they are not grasping is that the Kingdom of God or Heaven is going to be here on Earth. This Earth will be made anew and we will dwell with God here. It is sort of like the 3rd heaven where Jesus is now joins with this Earth and it becomes the Kingdom of Heaven.:)
 
Hi George,

This is how the error is perpetuated. Nothing here says that Christians go to Heaven. The kingdom of Heaven is the kingdom that come from Heaven. Your reward is in Heaven and Jesus said when He comes His reward is with Him. People read these passages and infer from them what is not stated.
Excellent point. People have been "brainwashed" by mainstream Christianity for so long that tradition becomes fact but when one takes scripture as a whole and within proper context one sees that we do NOT go to heaven when we die. This teaching probably began with the RCC and carried over to Protestant churches.:)

Hi Grappler,

I agree. Actually, I believe the idea of going to Heaven enter the church before the RCC. The earliest teaching of this that I see is from Clement of Alexandria and Origen in the mid to late 200's. Clement of Alexandria was apparently a fan of Plato because that is where he got the idea from.
Yeah it probably did begin before the RCC....it has it origins in paganism.

What do you think the Tower of Babel was a type of? It was around that long ago. Same source of information that told Eve "you won't surely die".
 
Mr 16:19 ¶ So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

Php 3:20 For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: (ASV)
21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (KJV)

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:

And here we see Christ going to heaven and returning. At His return He parcels out rewards and punishment, which explains...

Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
I think that one of the things that some of these people are having problems understanding is that man is mortal and when he dies he stays dead until he is resurrected. When Jesus returns he says that he will resurrect some to eternal life and some to judgment and condemnation. Jesus has not returned yet so neither has anyone been resurrected yet. Another point that they are not grasping is that the Kingdom of God or Heaven is going to be here on Earth. This Earth will be made anew and we will dwell with God here. It is sort of like the 3rd heaven where Jesus is now joins with this Earth and it becomes the Kingdom of Heaven.:)

You are correct here Grappler, what is salvation? Salvation is being saved from death...

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Salvation is the opposite of death, the gift of life. We do not have life inherit in us, that was the lie the Devil foisted off on humanity...

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
 
One of the most twisted verses in the bible. 2 Corinthians 5:8 "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord." No where does Paul say that when one dies they go staight to the Heaven. He simply said he would RATHER be dead and with Jesus than alive....well what Christian wouldn't?? To use this verse to some how develope a doctrine of going to heaven at death in the consideration of the other teachings of Paul that clearly state that we sleep does not stand in the face of logic and proper hermaneutics.:)

this verse does not clearly state that we" sleep" either. In fact regardless of what one believes,"heaven or sleep" it most definitely does not infer "sleep"

we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the(home) body and to be at home with the Lord.

From the ekdnmew home(body) Aorist Active~~to home evdnmew (Face to face with the Lord) Aorist active. From this home to our home is an instant in time. It in NO way infers over a period of time or "sleep"

Matt 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.


Where in Scripture do you find the statement below made?

From this home to our home is an instant in time.

*Greek ConC/Wrd==**Parsing ============ ==== Trans. of 2CO 5: 8 T/ord
qarrew 2292 pres act ind 1p ---verb be confident 1
de 1161 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- but/also 2
kai 2532 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- and 3
eudokew 2106 pres act ind 1p ---verb I am being well pleased 4
mallov 3123 ---- adv --- -- ------- more 5
ekdnmew 1553 aor act --- -- ---infn from home 6
ek 1537 ---- ---- gen -- prep--- out of 7
o 3588 neu artl gen s ------- the 8
swma 4983 neu ---- gen s noun--- body 9
kai 2532 ---- ---- --- -- conj--- and 10
evdnmew 1736 aor act --- -- ---infn be home 11
pros 4314 ---- ---- acc -- prep--- toward 12
o 3588 mas artl acc s ------- the 13
kurios 2962 mas ---- acc s noun--- Lord 14

From this home(body)to home. Aorist tense makes it at that instant and carries on for eternity.
 
I think maybe no matter what scripture is posted, some will not accept the clear and evident truth?

Your right. the whole problem comes from not seeing the distinctions between Israel and the Church.

The new Heavens= the church age

The new earth= Israel

The Church resides and lives in Heaven, we have the opportunity to "go to work" on the new Earth and rule with Him if we become spiritually mature.
 
Hi Grappler,

I agree. Actually, I believe the idea of going to Heaven enter the church before the RCC. The earliest teaching of this that I see is from Clement of Alexandria and Origen in the mid to late 200's. Clement of Alexandria was apparently a fan of Plato because that is where he got the idea from.
Yeah it probably did begin before the RCC....it has it origins in paganism.

What do you think the Tower of Babel was a type of? It was around that long ago. Same source of information that told Eve "you won't surely die".
The Tower of Babel was probably a stargate not some tall tower where people thought that they would reach the moon or heaven or something like that...lol. We need to give these people a little more credit...they were probably more advanced than we know. They were probably trying to build some kind of interdimensinoal gateway. Not my theory...check it out it is interesting.:)
 
I think maybe no matter what scripture is posted, some will not accept the clear and evident truth?

Your right. the whole problem comes from not seeing the distinctions between Israel and the Church.

The new Heavens= the church age

The new earth= Israel

The Church resides and lives in Heaven, we have the opportunity to "go to work" on the new Earth and rule with Him if we become spiritually mature.
Ever hear of the New Testament? New Covenant? Yeah the Old Covenant is....old...not in use.lol Who did Jesus come first to?? Thats right the "Jew" first and then Gentiles. Jews are under the New Covenant also and if they reject Jesus they will be cast into Hell. Now under the New Covenant there is no longer Jew or Gentile. Believing Gentiles are "grafted" into Israel...we become part of Israel. The true Israel not that counterfiet Israel currently in the Middle East now....they are no more blessed than Muslims. Both need Jesus.:)
 
Hi Grappler,

I agree. Actually, I believe the idea of going to Heaven enter the church before the RCC. The earliest teaching of this that I see is from Clement of Alexandria and Origen in the mid to late 200's. Clement of Alexandria was apparently a fan of Plato because that is where he got the idea from.
Yeah it probably did begin before the RCC....it has it origins in paganism.

What do you think the Tower of Babel was a type of? It was around that long ago. Same source of information that told Eve "you won't surely die".
The Tower of Babel was probably a stargate not some tall tower where people thought that they would reach the moon or heaven or something like that...lol. We need to give these people a little more credit...they were probably more advanced than we know. They were probably trying to build some kind of interdimensinoal gateway. Not my theory...check it out it is interesting.:)

What I was alluding to.
 
The inheritance is the land promised to Abraham, it is spoken of a s being in heaven, but, that doesn't mean we'll go there. We are coheirs with Christ and Christ is in heaven.

If you're a born again christian, you will in fact go to heaven. ;)

And you have scriptures that contradict what Jesus said?

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

That scripture is talking about yearning to be with him while still walking the earth. Let me rephrase. When a born again christian dies, their destination is heaven.
 
The inheritance is the land promised to Abraham, it is spoken of a s being in heaven, but, that doesn't mean we'll go there. We are coheirs with Christ and Christ is in heaven.

If you're a born again christian, you will in fact go to heaven. ;)

And you have scriptures that contradict what Jesus said?

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

That scripture is talking about yearning to be with him while still walking the earth. Let me rephrase. When a born again christian dies, their destination is heaven.

And Christ said that where He was going, the twelve could not come. He said this on the night before His crucifixion. He was no longer referring to being with Him while He was walking the earth, that 3-1/2 years was over. He is actually quoted as saying this three times...

Joh 7:32 The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.
Joh 7:33 Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.
Joh 7:34 Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.

Joh 8:20 These words spake Jesus in the treasury, as he taught in the temple: and no man laid hands on him; for his hour was not yet come.
Joh 8:21 Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

Three separate occasions, three distinct venues and the same message. I am going away and where I go, you cannot come. He was not referring to walking with Him on the earth, He was referring to going to the Father in Heaven and plainly saying we cannot come.
 
And Christ said that where He was going, the twelve could not come. He said this on the night before His crucifixion. He was no longer referring to being with Him while He was walking the earth, that 3-1/2 years was over. He is actually quoted as saying this three times...

They couldn't come with him, because they didn't die yet and they still had work to do on the earth.
 
The inheritance is the land promised to Abraham, it is spoken of a s being in heaven, but, that doesn't mean we'll go there. We are coheirs with Christ and Christ is in heaven.

If you're a born again christian, you will in fact go to heaven. ;)

And you have scriptures that contradict what Jesus said?

Joh 13:33 Little children, yet a little while I am with you. Ye shall seek me: and as I said unto the Jews, Whither I go, ye cannot come; so now I say to you.

That scripture is talking about yearning to be with him while still walking the earth. Let me rephrase. When a born again christian dies, their destination is heaven.

John 13:33 ~~"Little children, I am with you a little while longer. You will seek Me; and as I said to the Jews, now I also say to you, 'Where I am going, you cannot come.'

John 13:36 ~~Simon Peter said to Him, "Lord, where are You going?" Jesus answered, "Where I go, you cannot follow Me now; but you will follow later."

Jesus was talking about Heaven. It Just was not prepared yet. After Jesus ascended He opened Heaven. Now that is where all believers go.

That is why He went to paradise. He gathered all the Saints from that compartment and took them to heaven.
 
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