Christian Zionism

[farouk]

sorry that isn't found in the bible.

first off the alter had to be cleansed daily and a sin offering first for the land then any other freewill offering was to be offerend and that is mentioned. I don't cherry pick verse. the idea of levite is done. if cant see that clearly please pray for that to be shown. paul makes the idea of a levite in a temple and also jesus does as well with worship. he says the hour is coming and now is where they that worship the father shall neither worship in this mountain nor Jerusalem.

the levites offer up sin sacrifices. question

how can a gentile visit jesus then in millennium?

I don't really understand your point. From Scripture I was trying to explain mine, anyway.

 

[Ryan]

Who wants to get back to Zionism? Really? For reals. My apologies for getting it even more off topic.

 

[jasoncran]

I don't really understand your point. From Scripture I was trying to explain mine, anyway.

the idea of the lens that you have. that is my point your like us all read the bible through a lens. I try whenever possible not read the bible like that.you take the verses out of context to make a doctrine cause schofieldism does just that. not that amil doesn't have that. just that im addressing schofieldism.

isreal had a purpose and that was to be a light unto the gentiles. what was that light? the torah or the cross? then it was the torah but jesus came. now then food for thought. when the isrealites wanted a king they rejected YHWH rulership over them and put themselves in bondage. at the cross God undid that and now has restored a rule over any jew who wishes him to rule.he used isreal to show the world then and now the world at present how he rules.

with justice,mercy and grace, if god kept it the same how would the gentiles in china ever hear?would they have to go Jerusalem to get the sacriments or as now meet jesus wherever they are at?

 

[Skrumpelnubb]

Anyone who believes that the proclamation of the state of Israel 1948 was a fulfillment of biblical prophecies are a christian zionist. And that makes up a big part of christianity.

Was it not prophecied?

I don't know what you believe in but I write "you" here, as in "anyone," ok.

There's two opposing views on this. Both can't be right. You can't understand what the Old Testament say about the future of Israel and the jews. Unless in the light of Christ and New Testament. 2 Cor. 3:14 You can't do it the other way around, unless you will end up with the wrong doctrine.

For example, this is about Jesus; Numbers 21:8. You also have to see Jesus and the gathering of people in Him when you read OT about the restoration of Israel. Else you read it wrong.

You have to believe in Jesus when he say that his kingdom is not of this world, I'ts within you. We christians are the temple of God and God's people. I'ts a mess when you turn Jesus words around to be about a piece of land, genetics and a physical temple rebuildt. And the fruits of these lies leads to nothing good. Nothing.

 

[jasoncran]

ok, then moving back to Zionism. which one of you would join the idf to fight for isreal if they asked americans to join?

 

[Ryan]

I don't know what you believe in but I write "you" here, as in "anyone," ok.

There's two opposing views on this. Both can't be right. You can't understand what the Old Testament say about the future of Israel and the jews. Unless in the light of Christ and New Testament. 2 Cor. 3:14 You can't do it the other way around, unless you will end up with the wrong doctrine.

For example, this is about Jesus; Numbers 21:8. You also have to see Jesus and the gathering of people in Him when you read OT about the restoration of Israel. Else you read it wrong.

You have to believe in Jesus when he say that his kingdom is not of this world, I'ts within you. We christians are the temple of God and God's people. I'ts a mess when you turn Jesus words around to be about a piece of land, genetics and a physical temple rebuildt. And the fruits of these lies leads to nothing good. Nothing.

Lots of different ideas going on here. Let's tackle one subject at a time. What is one issue that you object with in regards to this Zionism.

ok, then moving back to Zionism. which one of you would join the idf to fight for isreal if they asked americans to join?

If the Lord called me to do so, I would. But why would he? Zechariah 14:3-4 "Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south."

 

[jasoncran]

well gee, so when the legit isreal government ask the messianic jews to serve per the LAW they shouldn't? I have been told that my family has had members in isreal that live in isreal and serve.

 

[Ryan]

well gee, so when the legit isreal government ask the messianic jews to serve per the LAW they shouldn't? I have been told that my family has had members in isreal that live in isreal and serve.

Jason what are you getting at? When people attempt to communicate with you clearly, could you please reciprocate that. If not, I cannot respond to your posts.

 

[jasoncran]

in modern isreal all jews must serve in the idf. many messianic jews do serve and are hated by the orthodox jews for doing that. they are persecuted for that. yet the secular government of isreal has defended the messianic jews from that.

its a conversation on Zionism is it not? why then not ask why would you serve in the idf or not? BTW im prohibited forever because im an a guardsmen to serve in foreign armies. per the ucmj and nsa acts. If I do so I will face jail time and forfeit my retirement.Im an Ashkenazi jew that has been told I have family in Isreal. I have pics of my grandparents in Jerusalem, the Sinai desert and Negev and Nazareth.i Have had the speech that I best be loyal to the jewish state and go to the wailing wall.

 

[P31Woman]

Page 8 :shocked!

I had not idea I would start something! LOL

 

[jasoncran]

I have posted the fact that I have jewish ancestry. I will if I can go again to the graves of my family post them and break down the ceremony and what It says in Hebrew on their markers.

my dad raised me on isreali(not all jews say this but it comes from the time of isreal on and some jews are older then modern isreal)thinking.

1)the only good arab is a dead one.
2)all citizens are soldiers and thus expendable in a time of war.

on the first one, I don't agree with that but I do understand that and I have in anger said that about muslims before.most jews that say that have lost family to an arab. and many jews even in isreal don't hate them all for that.

 

[Ryan]

in modern isreal all jews must serve in the idf. many messianic jews do serve and are hated by the orthodox jews for doing that. they are persecuted for that. yet the secular government of isreal has defended the messianic jews from that.

its a conversation on Zionism is it not? why then not ask why would you serve in the idf or not? BTW im prohibited forever because im an a guardsmen to serve in foreign armies. per the ucmj and nsa acts. If I do so I will face jail time and forfeit my retirement.Im an Ashkenazi jew that has been told I have family in Isreal. I have pics of my grandparents in Jerusalem, the Sinai desert and Negev and Nazareth.i Have had the speech that I best be loyal to the jewish state and go to the wailing wall.

I'm a Canadian, our government has supported unequivocally Israel's right to be a sovereign nation and their right to defend themselves.

Do I support Israel? Yes, absolutely. They are in God's land and were promised the land milleniums ago beginning with Abraham. Is this the people God desires to have in his land? Absolutely not. Idolatry, abortion, paganism is rampant through Israel. This nation in its current state, is the not the people he desires. He wants a people that will cry out to him and recognize Jesus as their Messiah. How is he gonna go about this? Well, all nations will come against it and will attempt to obliterate it. But that will not happen, it cannot happen, the Word says so.

I support Israel to turn around and repent, just as I pray for all nations under the sun to do so.

Side note, Canada has stated their unwavering support of Israel's right to exist. By and large, we have been shielded from a lot of the economic turmoil facing the nations. Is this coincidental? I don't think so. I will bless those who bless you, and curse those who curse you I think were the Words.

One can also see what happens when the US has not supported Israel and it's right to the land.

http://jerrybishop.wordpress.com/2011/09/09/israel-gods-blessing-on-america-and-natural-disasters/

So what will happen later this month when Obama visits Israel?

 

[jasoncran]

I will say this, amongst the jews that I listen to. Obama isn't seen as the apiac says or fox news. that of course depends on which jew you are talking too. jews are very liberal.

 

[Ryan]

I have posted the fact that I have jewish ancestry. I will if I can go again to the graves of my family post them and break down the ceremony and what It says in Hebrew on their markers.

my dad raised me on isreali(not all jews say this but it comes from the time of isreal on and some jews are older then modern isreal)thinking.

1)the only good arab is a dead one.
2)all citizens are soldiers and thus expendable in a time of war.

on the first one, I don't agree with that but I do understand that and I have in anger said that about muslims before.most jews that say that have lost family to an arab. and many jews even in isreal don't hate them all for that.

Talking with some believing Jews from Isreal, it's interesting they note the level of hatred from just Jews amongst Jews. I sense, and I could be wrong, but you have a lot of animosity about Israel and the Jews. (?)

 

[jasoncran]

im not asking you to go and leave Canada for isreal to serve. just that if one is in isreal one may have to serve.or in my case since they are family the pressure to serve is much higher.

 

[jasoncran]

you are wrong.im a vet. war has done things to me that I cant easily post today.i understand the reality of it all. don't confuse my criticism of schofieldism with hatred. I understand the jewish mind and im also well versed on anti-Semitism . I had to read up on as posters would post that here and I had to debunk their positions.i make it clear that im in no wise against isreal's right to exist.

 

[Ryan]

you are wrong.im a vet. war has done things to me that I cant easily post today.i understand the reality of it all. don't confuse my criticism of schofieldism with hatred. I understand the jewish mind and im also well versed on anti-Semitism . I had to read up on as posters would post that here and I had to debunk their positions.i make it clear that im in no wise against isreal's right to exist.

I see, I understand better I think. So do we really disagree on anything? Not that I like to though.

 

[Agape]

Do I support Israel? Yes, absolutely. They are in God's land and were promised the land milleniums ago beginning with Abraham. Is this the people God desires to have in his land? Absolutely not. Idolatry, abortion, paganism is rampant through Israel. This nation in its current state, is the not the people he desires. He wants a people that will cry out to him and recognize Jesus as their Messiah. How is he gonna go about this? Well, all nations will come against it and will attempt to obliterate it. But that will not happen, it cannot happen, the Word says so.

I support Israel to turn around and repent, just as I pray for all nations under the sun to do so.

I believe John Piper would concur with you on that.

 

[Ryan]

Page 8 :shocked!

I had not idea I would start something! LOL

Zech 12:2-3 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about... And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces.
Turn on your TV and watch the news. What nation and what city would you most likely expect to see? Israel and Jerusalem. Today, Jerusalem is a burden that causes trembling for all the nations just as God foretold. What makes the prophecy even more remarkable is that when the prophet Zechariah spoke these words around 520BC, Jerusalem lay in ruins. But God said it would become the focus of the world's attention. Today, Israel has 0.01% of the worlds population, yet 33% of the United Nations resolutions have been passed concerning her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_Nations_resolutions_concerning_Israel

It's not you who started anything. This is exactly what was prophecied and why the name Israel brings up so many thoughts. Good and bad.

 

[Ryan]

I believe John Piper would concur with you on that.

I agree with a Calvinism, Baptist preacher?

Had never heard of him until google