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Christian Zionism

Jesus was not a Nazirite. Being from Nazareth makes him a Nazarene, but there is no record He ever took the Nazirite vow. Taking a Nazirite vow makes one a true Nazirite. It is not possible for Jesus to have been a Nazirite. He would not to put a razor to his head, and you are correct in that there is no evidence he did. But neither is their evidence that anyone else in the New Testament did, so does that make them Nazirites also? He could not have touched wine either, and the Bible makes clear He not only drank wine, but He turned water into wine -- and yes, it was alcoholic, fermented wine.
 
That was not a Nazirite vow. A Nazirite would have had to shave his head in Jerusalem and burn it at the temple altar, along with a male and a female lamb offering and an adult ram offering. See Numbers 6:13-20.
 
thisnumbersdisconnected said:
That was not a Nazirite vow. A Nazirite would have had to shave his head in Jerusalem and burn it at the temple altar, along with a male and a female lamb offering and an adult ram offering. See Numbers 6:13-20.
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the: But Paul did go to Jerusalem, and wanted to make a Levitical offering. Some commentators have suggested exactly this, that Paul may have intended to burn his shaved hair at the temple.

Blessings.
 
farouk said:
the: But Paul did go to Jerusalem, and wanted to make a Levitical offering. Some commentators have suggested exactly this, that Paul may have intended to burn his shaved hair at the temple.

Blessings.
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But he shaved it at Cenchrea, which would have invalidated the vow. It doesn't wash, farouk.
 
farouk said:
If you read the commentaries, Jews might well at the Passover travel to Jerusalem with such a purpose.
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It doesn't matter. Shaving his hair anywhere but at the temple altar invalidated the "vow." The commentaries are ignoring the requirements of the Nazirite in asserting Paul "intended" to cut his hair there. Obviously he did not so intend, or, as the well-educated cleric he was, he would have done so.
 
thisnumbersdisconnected said:
It doesn't matter. Shaving his hair anywhere but at the temple altar invalidated the "vow." The commentaries are ignoring the requirements of the Nazirite in asserting Paul "intended" to cut his hair there. Obviously he did not so intend, or, as the well-educated cleric he was, he would have done so.
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I wonder why he shaved his head in Cenchrea, just as an aside.

(Some sources suggest that it was Aquila or even Priscilla who shaved his or her head.)
 
thisnumbersdisconnected said:
That was not a Nazirite vow. A Nazirite would have had to shave his head in Jerusalem and burn it at the temple altar, along with a male and a female lamb offering and an adult ram offering. See Numbers 6:13-20.
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actually no it doesn't mention that. where was the alter in Samson's day? wherever the alter is. the tabernacle was moved with the arc. but the arc is where when the Herod's temple is built?

lost,
[MENTION=91415]Ryan[/MENTION] thus proving my point, the torah will have to return, thus you have a problem because paul proclaims the work of the cross superior to the torah.

why didn't the early church kill the jewish believers for failing to do shabat or Passover? yet paul and the Jerusalem council that the law of moses(included all the above in question) wasn't for the gentiles, or jews per romans 14. esteeming a day implies the shabat.
 
jasoncran said:
actually no it doesn't mention that. where was the alter in Samson's day? wherever the alter is. the tabernacle was moved with the arc. but the arc is where when the Herod's temple is built?
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The tabernacle tent had been replaced with the Temple long before Jesus and Paul. Therefore, the only acceptable place to cut their hair would have been in Jerusalem.
 
well if one wants to that technical. the temple in that day was polluted long before Christ came. why? because it was built with sharpened tools thus defiled.
 
Ryan said:
Jason, one being studied in the Tanach would know that every law, every ordinance, and every instruction served a purpose. Just to throw out those breaking the Shabbat will get stoned, or unruly children can be stoned as well is degrading the very words that Adonai spoke to Moses. Throwing out random verses that you apparently have no insight to, is irresponsible if I may say. These commandments were Holy to the Lord, they should be Holy to you.

You should know that the laws concerning the temple, courts, governments and Kings cannot be observed or enforced today, thus rendering Shabbat breakers are to be stoned comment, pointless and meaningless.
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No insight? really like I cant read and go to the jews to learn this stuff?

you come across now as a legalist. by stating that the law is a burden and teacher that is what it meant to do. to teach YOU a sinner that God was holy and his nature. it does that today.
no insignt? really I do check up on that. I throw that out there knowing that it cant be done. because jesus said what he said and paul. paul called the cirmcusion of no use why would a jew say that?
 
jasoncran said:
well if one wants to that technical. the temple in that day was polluted long before Christ came. why? because it was built with sharpened tools thus defiled.
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Did God direct the building of the Temple? If so, are you saying He told Israel to violate the Law?

I don't think so. And it is irrelevant regardless.
 
Mark 14:23-25 "And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He gave it to them, and they all drank from it. And He said to them, “This is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many. Truly I say to you, I will never again drink of the fruit of the vine until that day when I drink it new in the kingdom of God.”

Hence, he took a Nazarite vow and is presently still bound by the conditions of it. This explains why he didn't take any vinegar.

Luke 23:36 " The soldiers also mocked Him, coming up to Him, offering Him sour wine,"
Matthew 27:34 "they gave Him wine to drink mixed with gall; and after tasting it, He was unwilling to drink."

And in the end times, Jesus will once again drink of the vine:

Revelations 14:14-18 " Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, having a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. And another angel came out of the temple, crying out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.” Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped.
And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.”
 
herod built that temple and god being the way he is honored the sincere worship on that.herod killed the real Sanhedrin and planted those that wanted to agree with his ways of corruption and power. its the man Hillel that sent teachers to the jews in that city since the sandhendrin didn't understand the law.
 
Jesus wasn't a nazarite. if he did then he would have to offer a sin offering when he returns how does god do that? he would also have to make a vow before the alter. which would be mentioned.
 
Jason, you need to go back to Numbers 6. There is no requirement to be in the temple to make a vow. One could make one anywhere, Nazarite or otherwise.
 
that is metaphor talking about the harvest to make wine. its in reference to judgment when the winepress of wrath. taking grapes and crushing them. the sickle there cant be allusion to saints.


The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.
15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.
18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.
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