Christians are to follow Jesus' steps 1 Pet 2:21, how?

[Tenchi]

Christians are to follow Jesus' steps. How?

The Gospels are the best way to come to know Jesus. They contain a historical account of the life and ministry of Jesus. They show us what he did, said, felt, and taught his followers. In effect, they contain those footsteps we are to follow.

To benefit fully from the Gospels, we must do more than just read them. We need to study them carefully and meditate on them as well. When studying them bring them to life, picture yourself among his disciples as he taught them, and observe the assignments he gave them. Imitate his footsteps in your life. Use your imagination to see, hear, and feel what was happening.

How do Christians follow in Jesus' steps? By operating from the essentials of the Christian life:

1.) Knowledge.
2.) Faith.
3.) Love.
4.) Submission.
5.) Holiness.

Knowledge.

How can anyone be like Jesus when they know nothing about him, right? You've got to have knowledge of his example before you can follow it. The entire Bible is, of course, one long revelation of Christ, the Alpha and Omega who holds the keys of Death and Hell, Creator of the universe, Redeemer of the wicked, Advocate of the saved, and soon returning King of Kings and Lord of Lords. There is no section of Scripture that doesn't in some respect reveal him to us. And so, the one who would follow Jesus' example is one who knows well the entire revelation of him in the Bible. (2 Timothy 1:12; Romans 10:14; Romans 10:2-3; Romans 15:14; 1 Corinthians 1:5, 2 Timothy 3:16-17, etc.)

Faith.

It's of little use simply accumulating knowledge of Jesus and his teaching apart from trusting that it is all true. As the writer of Hebrews declared, "Without faith it is impossible to please God, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of them who diligently seek Him." (Hebrews 11:6) Paul the apostle also wrote that the born-again person must always "walk by faith, not by sight" (2 Corinthians 5:7). The writer of Hebrews also noted,

Hebrews 4:2 (NASB)
2 ...the word they heard did not profit them, because it was not united by faith in those who heard.

Gaining knowledge of Christ and his teaching, then, is not enough, by itself. That knowledge MUST be united to faith, to trusting wholly in the truth of the Person of Christ as the God-Man Redeemer and all that the Bible reveals of him to us.

Love.

The apostle Paul wrote that no matter what we might say, or know, or do, if any of these things are not arising from a motive of love first for God and then others, it's all useless spiritually.

1 Corinthians 13:1-3 (NASB)
1 If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
2 If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.
3 And if I give all my possessions to feed the poor, and if I surrender my body to be burned, but do not have love, it profits me nothing.

The First and Great Commandment is, after all, not to go to church, or read the Bible, or sing on the worship team, or pray, but to love (desire) God with all of one's being (Matthew 22:36-38). God intends that out of a deep, over-riding desire for Him, all other obedience to His commands arises. And as knowledge of God and His incredible love for us is taken in and coupled to faith (1 John 4:16), the result is an ever-expanding love for Him that produces joyful obedience to His will and way. Again, apart from love for God, any and all obedience to Him, any and all attempts at following Jesus' example, "profit nothing" spiritually.

God doesn't want us to love Himself, or others, with our own natural, selfish, sin-corrupted, ignorant human "love" but with His own supernatural, holy, truthful, infinite, agape love. Of course, the only place we can obtain such love is from Him. Wonderfully, He gives us His love in the Person of the Holy Spirit by whom the "love of God is shed abroad in our hearts." (Romans 5:5) Every born-again person has, in the indwelling Holy Spirit, all the love of God they can possibly obtain from Him. Why, then, aren't all believers overflowing with His supernatural, holy love? Why, instead, are so many believers contentious, prideful, spiteful, bitter, angry and selfish? How can they have the Holy Spirit within them, shedding abroad his divine love in their hearts, and not manifest this love constantly? The answer has much to do with the next essential of Christian living.

Continued below.

 

[Tenchi]

Submission.
Knowledge of Christ, trust in him, and love for him all ought naturally to lead to constant submission to him. If one is not submitted to God, one is, of course, a rebel toward Him; there's no middle ground on which to stand between these two states. And so long as a believer is in the rebel-state, neglecting to follow the example of Jesus in Gethsemane throughout every day (Matthew 26:39), that believer will not be filled and transformed by the Holy Spirit, though the believer is occupied by him.

Often, however, believers plead with God for strength, and wisdom, peace and joy, but never once consciously, out-loud yield themselves to Him as the "living sacrifice" they were made to be (Romans 12:1; Romans 6:13-22). As a result, many Christians are only living in/by the Spirit but never walking in/by him (Galatians 5:25); they are "carnal babes in Christ" (1 Corinthians 3:1) attempting godly living by entirely fleshly means, adopted by God as one of His own but having no experience of daily fellowship with Him. As the apostle Paul warned, however, from the seeds of the flesh only corruption is harvested; from fleshly effort only more of the flesh is produced (Galatians 6:7-8; Romans 8:5-8; Galatians 5:17).

These truths don't stop many Christians from "following in Jesus' steps," entirely from a fleshly power source. Not surprisingly, these same Christians don't have any clear idea what it is to "walk in/by the Spirit" and just assume that they must ultimately do for God from their own resources of human strength and determination. No rebel toward God, however unwitting they are in their rebellion, can hope for His blessing and transforming, enabling power - even if they are one of His own. Part of what is in play here is that many Christians simply don't believe God will actually do things to them, that He will act upon them in concrete, tangible ways, as He says in His word He will do (John 14:6; John 16:8-13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16; Ephesians 3:16; Philippians 2:13; Philippians 4:13; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 1:3-5; Hebrews 12:5-11, etc.). This is just religious "fluff talk" they think; practical, getting-it-done Christianity requires striving, laboring, trying, fighting, not waiting on God in faith, love and submission to manifest Himself in and through the believer, as He says He will do in His word. And so, under the force of this erroneous thinking, these "practical" believers set out to do for God rather than waiting by faith, in love and submission, upon Him to do for them. But God makes it really clear in His word that the responsibility for our transformation is His, not ours.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Philippians 4:13 (NASB)
13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

1 Peter 5:10-11 (NASB)
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.
11 To Him be dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24-25 (NASB)
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

2 Corinthians 3:18 (NASB)
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord, the Spirit.

And so on. We work out only what God has first worked into us. We receive, remain and reflect what God has done for, and in, us. And as we do, the next essential of following in Jesus' steps is produced in our lives.

Holiness.
Hebrews 12:14 (NASB)
14 Pursue peace with all men, and holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
16 because it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

No believer who wants to claim a real, Spirit-filled, daily experience of God can do so legitimately apart from a life that is in a continuum of change toward ever-increasing holiness. In fact, there is no fellowship with God at all without holiness; one can't even see God properly if one's life is not holy. Worse still, so long as a believer harbors sinful things - attitudes, beliefs, imaginations, behaviors - in their life, God will not fellowship with them:

Psalm 66:18 (NASB)
18 If I regard wickedness in my heart, The Lord will not hear;

Isaiah 59:2 (NASB)
2 But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

1 Peter 3:12 (NASB)
12 "For the eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous, and His ears attend to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."

What is Peter and the writer of Hebrews talking about when they use the terms "holy" or "holiness"? At bottom, holiness is being more and more set apart from the World, the flesh and the devil unto God (2 Corinthians 6:14-18; Ephesians 5:1-13; Psalms 101). It is a forsaking of the World's values, philosophies and ethics for a Christ-centered worldview and lifestyle; it is forsaking a flesh-controlled, flesh-occupied, manner of living for a life under the constant control of the Holy Spirit, occupied before and above all with being the hands and heart of God to others; it is denying and rejecting the things of the devil evident in the World over which he rules as Prince, and the temptations to fleshliness the devil brings to each of us, choosing instead to "count everything rubbish for the sake of knowing Christ." (Philippians 3:7-14)

Anyone who proposes to follow in Christ's steps but refuses to forsake the things of the World, the flesh and the devil has no hope of truly emulating Christ. But there are so many Christians - myself among them, at one time - whose lives are filled with movies, t.v. programs, books, hobbies, obsessions, addictions, goals, relationships and such like that are utterly contrary to the things of God. Strangely, they actually believe that in the midst of unholy living they can have something real and transformative with God, that they don't actually have to "come out from among them and be separate and touch not the unclean thing."

What about you? Are you thinking to follow Christ's example while neglecting these essentials of the faith? Many Christians are. I hope and pray you won't be one of them.

 

[Highway54]

Not, we come to be from reproduction, not creation. There’s a big difference sir.

Adam Gen 1:26,27; Jesus Rev 3:14 and Col 1:15

 

[Highway54]

No, never heard of it

Aah. You reminded me of a guy with the handle Bible Believer, and I thought that might be what the BB stood for in your handle here. Great meeting and speaking with you sir.

 

[Highway54]

Submission.
Knowledge of Christ, trust in him, and love for him all ought naturally to lead to constant submission to him. If one is not submitted to God, one is, of course, a rebel toward Him; there's no middle ground on which to stand between these two states. And so long as a believer is in the rebel-state, neglecting to follow the example of Jesus in Gethsemane throughout every day (Matthew 26:39), that believer will not be filled and transformed by the Holy Spirit, though the believer is occupied by him.

Often, however, believers plead with God for strength, and wisdom, peace and joy, but never once consciously, out-loud yield themselves to Him as the "living sacrifice" they were made to be (Romans 12:1; Romans 6:13-22). As a result, many Christians are only living in/by the Spirit but never walking in/by him (Galatians 5:25); they are "carnal babes in Christ" (1 Corinthians 3:1) attempting godly living by entirely fleshly means, adopted by God as one of His own but having no experience of daily fellowship with Him. As the apostle Paul warned, however, from the seeds of the flesh only corruption is harvested; from fleshly effort only more of the flesh is produced (Galatians 6:7-8; Romans 8:5-8; Galatians 5:17).

These truths don't stop many Christians from "following in Jesus' steps," entirely from a fleshly power source. Not surprisingly, these same Christians don't have any clear idea what it is to "walk in/by the Spirit" and just assume that they must ultimately do for God from their own resources of human strength and determination. No rebel toward God, however unwitting they are in their rebellion, can hope for His blessing and transforming, enabling power - even if they are one of His own. Part of what is in play here is that many Christians simply don't believe God will actually do things to them, that He will act upon them in concrete, tangible ways, as He says in His word He will do (John 14:6; John 16:8-13; 1 Corinthians 2:10-16; Ephesians 3:16; Philippians 2:13; Philippians 4:13; 2 Corinthians 3:18; 2 Corinthians 1:3-5; Hebrews 12:5-11, etc.). This is just religious "fluff talk" they think; practical, getting-it-done Christianity requires striving, laboring, trying, fighting, not waiting on God in faith, love and submission to manifest Himself in and through the believer, as He says He will do in His word. And so, under the force of this erroneous thinking, these "practical" believers set out to do for God rather than waiting by faith, in love and submission, upon Him to do for them. But God makes it really clear in His word that the responsibility for our transformation is His, not ours.

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
6 For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)
13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.
Philippians 4:13 (NASB)
13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NASB)
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is He who calls you, and He also will bring it to pass.

1 Peter 5:10-11 (NASB)
10 After you have suffered for a little while, the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ, will Himself perfect, confirm, strengthen and establish you.
11 To Him be dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:24-25 (NASB)
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
25 to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

2 Corinthians 3:18 (NASB)
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Lord, the Spirit.

And so on. We work out only what God has first worked into us. We receive, remain and reflect what God has done for, and in, us. And as we do, the next essential of following in Jesus' steps is produced in our lives.

Holiness.
Hebrews 12:14 (NASB)
14 Pursue peace with all men, and holiness without which no one will see the Lord.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;
16 because it is written, "You shall be holy, for I am holy."

No believer who wants to claim a real, Spirit-filled, daily experience of God can do so legitimately apart from a life that is in a continuum of change toward ever-increasing holiness. In fact, there is no fellowship with God at all without holiness; one can't even see God properly if one's life is not holy. Worse still, so long as a believer harbors sinful things - attitudes, beliefs, imaginations, behaviors - in their life, God will not fellowship with them:

Psalm 66:18 (NASB)
18 If I regard wickedness in my heart, The Lord will not hear;

Isaiah 59:2 (NASB)
2 But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, And your sins have hidden His face from you so that He does not hear.

1 Peter 3:12 (NASB)
12 "For the eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous, and His ears attend to their prayer, but the face of the Lord is against those who do evil."

What is Peter and the writer of Hebrews talking about when they use the terms "holy" or "holiness"? At bottom, holiness is being more and more set apart from the World, the flesh and the devil unto God (2 Corinthians 6:14-18; Ephesians 5:1-13; Psalms 101). It is a forsaking of the World's values, philosophies and ethics for a Christ-centered worldview and lifestyle; it is forsaking a flesh-controlled, flesh-occupied, manner of living for a life under the constant control of the Holy Spirit, occupied before and above all with being the hands and heart of God to others; it is denying and rejecting the things of the devil evident in the World over which he rules as Prince, and the temptations to fleshliness the devil brings to each of us, choosing instead to "count everything rubbish for the sake of knowing Christ." (Philippians 3:7-14)

Anyone who proposes to follow in Christ's steps but refuses to forsake the things of the World, the flesh and the devil has no hope of truly emulating Christ. But there are so many Christians - myself among them, at one time - whose lives are filled with movies, t.v. programs, books, hobbies, obsessions, addictions, goals, relationships and such like that are utterly contrary to the things of God. Strangely, they actually believe that in the midst of unholy living they can have something real and transformative with God, that they don't actually have to "come out from among them and be separate and touch not the unclean thing."

What about you? Are you thinking to follow Christ's example while neglecting these essentials of the faith? Many Christians are. I hope and pray you won't be one of them.

Knowledge.

How can anyone be like Jesus when they know nothing about him, right? You've got to have knowledge of his example before you can follow it. The entire Bible is, of course, one long revelation of Christ

The Bible is really more about God who gave that revelation to Christ Tenchi.

Faith.

It's of little use simply accumulating knowledge of Jesus and his teaching apart from trusting that it is all true

I fully agree

Love.

Without love, salvation is impossible I fully agree.

Submission.
Knowledge of Christ, trust in him, and love for him all ought naturally to lead to constant submission to him. If one is not submitted to God, one is, of course, a rebel toward Him; there's no middle ground on which to stand between these two states. And so long as a believer is in the rebel-state, neglecting to follow the example of Jesus in Gethsemane throughout every day (Matthew 26:39), that believer will not be filled and transformed by the Holy Spirit, though the believer is occupied by him.

Submission basically means obedience. The believer you described of course is not a believer sir.

Holiness.

You described this well, keeping as apart from the world as we can. Thanks for the great answer to my original question Tenchi.

 

[Tenchi]

The Bible is really more about God who gave that revelation to Christ Tenchi.

Oh? I don't see that in the Bible... John 1:1-4, Colossians 1:15-17, Colossians 2:9, Titus 2:13, etc. As the Creator of Everything, the Person of Christ is reflected in Creation; at the Fall of mankind in Eden, Jesus was prophesied to "crush the head of the Serpent" (Genesis 3:15; Isaiah 53); in the ceremonies, sacrifices and religious paraphernalia of the Jews, Christ is prefigured, the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," our Great High Priest; in the Gospels he is finally revealed in the flesh, the God-Man, our Redeemer and Good Shepherd, the Rock of Offense upon which the eternal Church rests (John 1:29; Hebrews 9, 10:1-18; Philippians 2:6-10; John 10:7-11; 1 Peter 2:6-9; etc.). And so on. Jesus was far more than a messenger of God's revelation but is at the Center of the entire record of Scripture as the incarnate God, our Creator walking among us (John 1:10-12).

Submission basically means obedience.

Many are those who obey God's commands but who, within themselves, are in stark rebellion to Him. The Pharisees, who were known for their careful obedience to God's Law, who were, in fact, professionally obedient to His Law, had hearts that were far from God and in deep defiance of Him. See Matthew 23 and Matthew 15:1-8. In the past, I have myself attended church, prayed, read the Bible, offered tithe, and even worked in Christian ministry, all the while in rebellion toward God, serving myself as often as possible, and compromising heavily with the World, the Flesh and the devil. This isn't to say that obedience to God never reflects a heart that is submitted to Him; I'm only pointing out that obedience is not synonymous with submission, and may, in fact, conceal a rebel's heart.

Why was it that Christ, the perfect God-Man, obedient to the Father's will at all times, prayed as he did in Gethsemane, out-loud yielding himself to the Father's will (Matthew 26:39-42)? Surely, it was evident to the all-knowing Father that Jesus was entirely obedient to His will; if there was anyone whose obedience truly reflected a submitted heart, it was Jesus. And yet, he consciously, explicitly yielded himself to the Father's will. In what Jesus did in Gethsemane, we have an important example to follow, I think, which is why we are urged not only to obey, but to submit to God in humility and faith (the latter preceding the former, ideally).

See: Romans 6:13-22
Romans 8:14
Romans 12:1
James 4:7-10
1 Peter 5:6
Micah 6:8

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Adam Gen 1:26,27; Jesus Rev 3:14 and Col 1:15

Consult your high school biology book….any of them regarding where babies come from.

 

[Highway54]

Oh? I don't see that in the Bible... John 1:1-4, Colossians 1:15-17, Colossians 2:9, Titus 2:13, etc. As the Creator of Everything, the Person of Christ is reflected in Creation; at the Fall of mankind in Eden, Jesus was prophesied to "crush the head of the Serpent" (Genesis 3:15; Isaiah 53); in the ceremonies, sacrifices and religious paraphernalia of the Jews, Christ is prefigured, the "Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world," our Great High Priest; in the Gospels he is finally revealed in the flesh, the God-Man, our Redeemer and Good Shepherd, the Rock of Offense upon which the eternal Church rests (John 1:29; Hebrews 9, 10:1-18; Philippians 2:6-10; John 10:7-11; 1 Peter 2:6-9; etc.). And so on. Jesus was far more than a messenger of God's revelation but is at the Center of the entire record of Scripture as the incarnate God, our Creator walking among us (John 1:10-12).



Many are those who obey God's commands but who, within themselves, are in stark rebellion to Him. The Pharisees, who were known for their careful obedience to God's Law, who were, in fact, professionally obedient to His Law, had hearts that were far from God and in deep defiance of Him. See Matthew 23 and Matthew 15:1-8. In the past, I have myself attended church, prayed, read the Bible, offered tithe, and even worked in Christian ministry, all the while in rebellion toward God, serving myself as often as possible, and compromising heavily with the World, the Flesh and the devil. This isn't to say that obedience to God never reflects a heart that is submitted to Him; I'm only pointing out that obedience is not synonymous with submission, and may, in fact, conceal a rebel's heart.

Why was it that Christ, the perfect God-Man, obedient to the Father's will at all times, prayed as he did in Gethsemane, out-loud yielding himself to the Father's will (Matthew 26:39-42)? Surely, it was evident to the all-knowing Father that Jesus was entirely obedient to His will; if there was anyone whose obedience truly reflected a submitted heart, it was Jesus. And yet, he consciously, explicitly yielded himself to the Father's will. In what Jesus did in Gethsemane, we have an important example to follow, I think, which is why we are urged not only to obey, but to submit to God in humility and faith (the latter preceding the former, ideally).

See: Romans 6:13-22
Romans 8:14
Romans 12:1
James 4:7-10
1 Peter 5:6

Consult your high school biology book….any of them regarding where babies come from.

No thanks maam, I believe the Bible over man's knowledge.

 

[miamited]

No thanks maam, I believe the Bible over man's knowledge.

Hi Dorothy Mae

What is the point that you're trying to make? That Adam and Eve were conceived through a sexual union of some pre-existing parents? I have to agree with Highway54 that Adam, Eve and Jesus were all born without that part of the reproductive process being included.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No thanks maam, I believe the Bible over man's knowledge.

So you think God creates babies from the dust of the ground? Is that akin to the cabbage patch kids? Do parents find their children in the garden?

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy Mae

What is the point that you're trying to make? That Adam and Eve were conceived through a sexual union of some pre-existing parents? I have to agree with Highway54 that Adam, Eve and Jesus were all born without that part of the reproductive process being included.

God bless,
Ted

No, the opposite. The Bible says Adam and Eve were created not conceived nor born. They were directly created. I find it difficult that I have to teach adults where babies come from. I mean we know in great detail how human babies are conceived. Why do I have to explain this? Is American high education so poor that this knowledge is lost?

Adam and Eve would not have been missing body parts. But if you want to believe this, you need to find scripture to show this. The marriage bed, conception, is HOLY. Why would they be created missing those holy parts?

Jesus, btw, was conceived and born. We are told where and to which woman.

 

[miamited]

The Bible says Adam and Eve were created not conceived nor born. They were directly created.

Hi Dorothy Mae

So, you don't agree with the account as given in the Scriptures? I mean, that's all Highway54 is saying, that the Scriptures say that Adam, Eve and Jesus were not created as you apparently want to teach everyone isn't the truth, because you know how babies are born. I'm still not clear on your argument.

Do you agree that the three people mentioned above were not born through the natural processes by which humans are conceived? Yes or no? Because, as far as I can tell, that's all that this disagreement seems to be about.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Hi Dorothy Mae

So, you don't agree with the account as given in the Scriptures? I mean, that's all

No, I do believe the account in scripture. Seems to me you don’t but think they were missing body parts. Did those suddenly grow after sin? That must have hurt!! How could Eve be told she’d have pain in child birth if she had no uterus?

Highway54 is saying, that the Scriptures say that Adam, Eve and Jesus were not created as you apparently want to teach everyone isn't the truth, because you know how babies are born.

Jesus was born as a baby. Do you need the scripture for that?

I'm still not clear on your argument.

Do you agree that the three people mentioned above were not born through the natural processes by which humans are conceived?

How can I? Jesus was born as a baby. Adam and Eve were never babies.

Yes or no? Because, as far as I can tell, that's all that this disagreement seems to be about.

God bless,
Ted

Could be but Ifind it astounding that you don’t believe Mary gave birth to the baby Jesus.

 

[miamited]

No, I do believe the account in scripture. Seems to me you don’t but think they were missing body parts. Did those suddenly grow after sin? That must have hurt!! How could Eve be told she’d have pain in child birth if she had no uterus?

What?!?!?!?! Where did you find that in my post? All I'm saying is that you seem to have missed Highway54 's point about those that the Scriptures tell us did not come about through the usual processes of conception. Of course Eve had a uterus. Who ever said that she didn't?!?!?!?!?! You seem to be making up a lot of 'understanding' that doesn't come from any of my posts. I don't even understand what Eve's having a uterus has to do with the question.

Jesus was born as a baby. Do you need the scripture for that?

Yes Jesus was birthed, as a baby. But he has none of Joseph, and I believe even Mary, in his DNA. Why? Because he wasn't conceived as a baby is normally conceived. My understanding is that God, by the Holy Spirit, implanted a fully functioning zygote to the uterine wall of Mary. Now, I could be mistaken as to the Mary part of it, but that still has nothing to do with this argument that you're trying to make.

How can I? Jesus was born as a baby. Adam and Eve were never babies.

I don't know, but it would seem to me that you don't understand the difference between one's birth and one's conception.

Could be but Ifind it astounding that you don’t believe Mary gave birth to the baby Jesus.

Look, I get it that you're trying to be funny. But please try to refrain from making claims about me that are patently false. Thank you.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Dorothy Mae]

What?!?!?!?! Where did you find that in my post? All I'm saying is that you seem to have missed Highway54 's point about those that the Scriptures tell us did not come about through the usual processes of conception.

You said, “Do you agree that the three people mentioned above were not born through the natural processes by which humans are conceived?”

Conception is one event. Jesus was conceived. Jesus was born. Adam wasn’t conceived or born.

Of course Eve had a uterus. Who ever said that she didn't?!?!?!?!?! You seem to be making up a lot of 'understanding' that doesn't come from any of my posts. I don't even understand what Eve's having a uterus has to do with the question.

A misunderstanding. Highway54 insists babies are created. They are not. They are conceived. Jesus is God’s only BEGOTTEN (conceived) sin. ADAM wasn’t begotten. This difference is in the scripture and I believe it.

Yes Jesus was birthed, as a baby. But he has none of Joseph, and I believe even Mary, in his DNA. Why? Because he wasn't conceived as a baby is normally conceived. My understanding is that God, by the Holy Spirit, implanted a fully functioning zygote to the uterine wall of Mary.

Please give me the scripture that describes how Jesus was conceived in this detail.

Now, I could be mistaken as to the Mary part of it, but that still has nothing to do with this argument that you're trying to make.

Yes I agree except you’re imagining more than scripture says.

I don't know, but it would seem to me that you don't understand the difference between one's birth and one's conception.

No, Highway54 doesn’t. He thinks babies are created, not conceived.

Look, I get it that you're trying to be funny. But please try to refrain from making claims about me that are patently false. Thank you.

Don’t recall that I did. But since you bring it up, your post above is full of false claims about me. Please practice what you preach!

 

[Highway54]

Hi Dorothy Mae

What is the point that you're trying to make? That Adam and Eve were conceived through a sexual union of some pre-existing parents? I have to agree with Highway54 that Adam, Eve and Jesus were all born without that part of the reproductive process being included.

God bless,
Ted

Hi Ted, I will clarify something here, I believe the human Jesus was born through a normal pregnancy, from a human mother inseminated. But in his spirit form, I believe he was the first created son of God, created exclusively by Jehovah since nothing else existed Rev 3:14; Col 1:15.

 

[Highway54]

So you think God creates babies from the dust of the ground? Is that akin to the cabbage patch kids? Do parents find their children in the garden?

God created Adam, Eve and every spirit creature maam. Humans after Adam came through procreation. I do not believe you are ignorant of this, rather simply being argumentative, but for what purpose?

 

[miamited]

Hi Ted, I will clarify something here, I believe the human Jesus was born through a normal pregnancy, from a human mother inseminated. But in his spirit form, I believe he was the first created son of God, created exclusively by Jehovah since nothing else existed Rev 3:14; Col 1:15.

Hi Highway54

While I'm not willing to call it a normal pregnancy, because the woman did not wind up pregnant in any sense of 'normal', yes, from that point on, Jesus' zygote was fed through his mother's placenta and he was born through the normal birth canal process.

I also believe that what the Holy Spirit did as he overshadowed the mother, was to place within her uterus, a fully formed zygote. I don't believe that Jesus had any of the father's DNA or the mother's. A fully prepared zygote, whose Father was God, was implanted in Mary's womb and attached to her uterine wall.

However, I also understand that this is not a concept made clear in the Scriptures. But I just don't understand why, if there was none of Joseph's DNA, because everyone agrees that he provided no sperm for the conception, that the zygote came from an egg that belonged to the mother. God had to make Jesus perfect and sinless and I believe that He did that by implanting the fully formed zygote in Mary's womb. Which, of course, only makes Mary his mother by the process of birthing the child, but not through any hereditary connection. Just as Joseph is understood to be Jesus' earthly father because he was married to Mary, while we all, at least I think all believers, understand that Joseph had absolutely no physical part of Mary winding up pregnant. It just makes sense to me.

I've studied a lot of 'christian' based faiths. I find that there is absolutely no reason to accept any Mormon doctrine, but I'm a bit more hesitant about denying any truth in the JW doctrine. But not all. Which I find is actually true of a lot of such religious denominations. I mean, I think the Catholic doctrines and practices are pretty 'wrong', also. But what they propose, or understand, as our lives on the new heaven and the new earth will be like, I find some agreement. We aren't destined to live in heaven. Our future eternal existence will be on a planet much like this one that God will recreate or rebuild. We will live in peace and good will for all who find themselves so blessed as to have received God's gift of abundant, eternal life through our faith in what God has done for us in Jesus.

God bless,
Ted

 

[Free]

Hi Highway54

While I'm not willing to call it a normal pregnancy, because the woman did not wind up pregnant in any sense of 'normal', yes, from that point on, Jesus' zygote was fed through his mother's placenta and he was born through the normal birth canal process.

I also believe that what the Holy Spirit did as he overshadowed the mother, was to place within her uterus, a fully formed zygote. I don't believe that Jesus had any of the father's DNA or the mother's. A fully prepared zygote, whose Father was God, was implanted in Mary's womb and attached to her uterine wall.

However, I also understand that this is not a concept made clear in the Scriptures. But I just don't understand why, if there was none of Joseph's DNA, because everyone agrees that he provided no sperm for the conception, that the zygote came from an egg that belonged to the mother. God had to make Jesus perfect and sinless and I believe that He did that by implanting the fully formed zygote in Mary's womb. Which, of course, only makes Mary his mother by the process of birthing the child, but not through any hereditary connection. Just as Joseph is understood to be Jesus' earthly father because he was married to Mary, while we all, at least I think all believers, understand that Joseph had absolutely no physical part of Mary winding up pregnant. It just makes sense to me.

I've studied a lot of 'christian' based faiths. I find that there is absolutely no reason to accept any Mormon doctrine, but I'm a bit more hesitant about denying any truth in the JW doctrine. But not all. Which I find is actually true of a lot of such religious denominations. I mean, I think the Catholic doctrines and practices are pretty 'wrong', also. But what they propose, or understand, as our lives on the new heaven and the new earth will be like, I find some agreement. We aren't destined to live in heaven. Our future eternal existence will be on a planet much like this one that God will recreate or rebuild. We will live in peace and good will for all who find themselves so blessed as to have received God's gift of abundant, eternal life through our faith in what God has done for us in Jesus.

God bless,
Ted

Do you believe that Jesus was fully God and fully man?

 

[Highway54]

What?!?!?!?! Where did you find that in my post? All I'm saying is that you seem to have missed Highway54 's point about those that the Scriptures tell us did not come about through the usual processes of conception. Of course Eve had a uterus. Who ever said that she didn't?!?!?!?!?! You seem to be making up a lot of 'understanding' that doesn't come from any of my posts. I don't even understand what Eve's having a uterus has to do with the question.

Yes Jesus was birthed, as a baby. But he has none of Joseph, and I believe even Mary, in his DNA. Why? Because he wasn't conceived as a baby is normally conceived. My understanding is that God, by the Holy Spirit, implanted a fully functioning zygote to the uterine wall of Mary. Now, I could be mistaken as to the Mary part of it, but that still has nothing to do with this argument that you're trying to make.

I don't know, but it would seem to me that you don't understand the difference between one's birth and one's conception.

Look, I get it that you're trying to be funny. But please try to refrain from making claims about me that are patently false. Thank you.

God bless,
Ted

But he has none of Joseph, and I believe even Mary, in his DNA. Why? Because he wasn't conceived as a baby is normally conceived. My understanding is that God, by the Holy Spirit, implanted a fully functioning zygote to the uterine wall of Mary. Now, I could be mistaken as to the Mary part of it

You are quite correct about Joseph Ted, God did implant Jesus into Mary through holy spirit, but we do believe Mary was his literal mother. Interestingly, and perhaps something to contemplate since you are on the fence on the Mary side of it, the Bible states we lost life through Adams sin, so we believe that if only one parent would have remained faithful/sinless that the offspring would not have inherited death. Rom 5:12