Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

[WalterandDebbie]

I Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

Galatians 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. Galatians 6:15

Romans 3:30

Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

 

[Willie T]

Was there something more?

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Was there something more?

No, I was just closing out my thoughts, but what was your thinking?

 

[poetofparables]

No, I was just closing out my thoughts, but what was your thinking?

Are you alluding to a contradiction?

 

[Rick W]

The Foyer is where the unregistered may ask questions or post their thoughts on a topic to be answered or replied to from the membership.
Nor is this a debate forum.
ALL participants in this thread are members so this thread has been moved to "Apologetics & Theology"

To all who are registered here.
Please post in the appropriate forum where members can post/start threads freely anyway.

 

[JLB]

Are you alluding to a contradiction?

Please share your thoughts as a non Christian about this subject.


Thanks JLB

 

[poetofparables]

Ok well if the the OP is in fact thinking they are seeing a contradiction, then I was going to answer by saying. A contradiction is only one if it is impossible to find how to answer and connect two seemingly opposite ideas together. But you have exhaust all possibilites first, so im asking the OP to do that before making those claims (if they are in fact making that claim.)

 

[Rick W]

You replied to a thread in progress. No problem.
The thread was simply created in the wrong forum.

 

[JLB]

Ok well if the the OP is in fact thinking they are seeing a contradiction, then I was going to answer by saying. A contradiction is only one if it is impossible to find how to answer and connect two seemingly opposite ideas together. But you have exhaust all possibilites first, so im asking the OP to do that before making those claims (if they are in fact making that claim.)

Good point

 

[TOG]

I Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

I find this verse quite interesting. Circumcision is a commandment of God. He might as well have said "Murder is nothing and not murdering is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God". It doesn't make sense. At least, not until we realize that he wasn't referring to the commandment of circumcision, but was using it as an idiom for converting to Judaism. The word "circumcision" (and related words, such as "circumcise") is used that way a lot in the New Testament. What he's saying is that it doesn't matter if the Gentiles formally convert to Judaism. What matters is that they keep the commandments God gave. People often use this verse to show that the law is no longer valid, but it actually says exactly the opposite.

The TOG​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Perhaps this sheds the most light on the subject:

4 You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5 But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value (towards justification). The only thing that counts (towards justification) is faith expressing itself through love. (Galatians 5:4-6 NASB parentheses mine)

Read it. Circumcision has no value towards justification. And, furthermore, circumcision is simply not a work that shows you have the righteousness of God that comes through faith in Christ. Faith as evidenced in love for others, not circumcison, is what shows we have the righteousness that comes by faith.

Circumcision is meaningless in that it neither justifies us before God insofar as making us righteous before God, nor does it justify us before God insofar as showing us to have the righteousness of God. It is the circumcision of the heart in the laying aside of the sin nature through faith in Christ that counts toward justification--both making us righteous, and showing us to have that righteousness. Literal circumcision does neither of these things.

 

[poetofparables]

Ignore post: I'm clearing the saved draft from my phone.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, TOG, this is why I personally don't think that literal circumcision is a necessary and obligatory obedience of faith in Christ like 'do not steal' is. It isn't necessary in that it is not the expected outcome of having the new nature. It's like saying that having a beach towel means you went swimming. No, getting wet means you went swimming. That's why getting wet is the obligatory manifestation of saving faith--I mean going swimming, while having a beach towel is not.

 

[TOG]

So, TOG, this is why I personally don't think that literal circumcision is a necessary and obligatory obedience of faith in Christ like 'do not steal' is. It isn't necessary in that it is not the expected outcome of having the new nature. It's like saying that having a beach towel means you went swimming. No, getting wet means you went swimming. That's why getting wet is the obligatory manifestation of saving faith--I mean going swimming, while having a beach towel is not.

I understand what you're saying, but if you think about it the analogy doesn't quite work. Both getting wet and having a beach towel are effects of going swimming. One can't be avoided (getting wet), and the other is optional (the beach towel). You don't get wet to go swimming. You get wet because you went swimming. You don't get a beach towel to go swimming. You get a beach towel because you went swimming.

The TOG​

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I understand what you're saying, but if you think about it the analogy doesn't quite work. Both getting wet and having a beach towel are effects of going swimming. One can't be avoided (getting wet), and the other is optional (the beach towel).

I don't see how you can say the analogy doesn't work. Possessing a beach towel means nothing in regard to taking a mandatory swim (mandatory for the sake of this argument). Nothing. It isn't needed to perform that mandatory swim, nor does possessing it have to accompany the mandatory swim. The analogy was not given in order to suggest one can't have a towel as the result of going swimming. The point is it is simply not necessary as getting wet is.

You don't get wet to go swimming. You get wet because you went swimming. You don't get a beach towel to go swimming. You get a beach towel because you went swimming.

The TOG​

The point being, it is not necessary to get a beach towel because you went swimming. You still went swimming whether you have a beach towel or not. But that is not true of getting wet. The getting wet part is what MUST accompany a profession of having went swimming. A towel is not. It's impossible to make the towel required for a swim insofar as being required to take that swim, or as the necessary outcome of taking that swim.

This is why I believe the outward Mosaic observances--Feasts, circumcision, kosher foods, cleanliness laws, etc.--are not the expected and obligatory expressions of saving faith. The realities they represent are.

 

[chessman]

Possessing a beach towel means nothing in regard to taking a mandatory swim (mandatory for the sake of this argument). Nothing. .... The realities they represent are.

John 13:5 Then he poured water into the washbasin and began to wash the feet of the disciples, and to wipe them dry with the towel which he had tied around himself. ​