Conditional salvation is works salvation !

[JLB]

A person is saved by what Jesus Christ did. If you add to that, its works and another gospel.

Jesus said a person must believe what He did in order to be saved, otherwise it's Universal Salvation, where everyone is saved.

Surely you understand this?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Believe is the condition by which a person is saved.






JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Jesus said a person must believe what He did in order to be saved, otherwise it's Universal Salvation, where everyone is saved.

Surely you understand this?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Believe is the condition by which a person is saved.






JLB

I’m always curious as to how far the NO WORKS position goes in those brethren. I once asked one of them (other site)if loving God was necessary for salvation and the answer was negative because that’s (a) work.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus said a person must believe what He did in order to be saved, otherwise it's Universal Salvation, where everyone is saved.

Surely you understand this?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Believe is the condition by which a person is saved.






JLB

If you believe, then a person believes that they were saved by what Christ did for them. But if you believe that one is saved as a result of their believing, that's salvation conditioned on works !

 

[JLB]

But if you believe that one is saved as a result of their believing, that's salvation conditioned on works !

Now all that is left, is for to post the scriptures that teach us that those who don't believe are saved.

Please explain to us how a person is saved without believing in what Jesus did on the cross?


Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1




JLB

 

[JLB]

If you believe, then a person believes that they were saved by what Christ did for them. But if you believe that one is saved as a result of their believing, that's salvation conditioned on works !

Jesus said a person must believe what He did in order to be saved, otherwise it's Universal Salvation, where everyone is saved.

Surely you understand this?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Believe is the condition by which a person is saved.

 

[JLB]

then a person believes that they were saved by what Christ did for them.

How does a person believe without hearing the Gospel; the good news of what Christ did on the cross?

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:14



JLB

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If you believe, then a person believes that they were saved by what Christ did for them. But if you believe that one is saved as a result of their believing, that's salvation conditioned on works !

I wonder if believing you are believing you are saved by what Christ did is really works and therefore you aren’t saved after all.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Now all that is left, is for to post the scriptures that teach us that those who don't believe are saved.

Please explain to us how a person is saved without believing in what Jesus did on the cross?


Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1




JLB

I can put on my Calvin hat and answer that. Because they were chosen from the foundation of the world to go to Heaven.

 

[brightfame52]

Now all that is left, is for to post the scriptures that teach us that those who don't believe are saved.

Please explain to us how a person is saved without believing in what Jesus did on the cross?


Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 1 John 5:1




JLB

I have told you already, Lost people cant believe the Gospel, because it is hid from them resulting in them beliving not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Whoever believes in Jesus was saved.

 

[brightfame52]

Jesus said a person must believe what He did in order to be saved, otherwise it's Universal Salvation, where everyone is saved.

Surely you understand this?


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

Believe is the condition by which a person is saved.

Do you believe a person is saved by what Christ did, or by what they did ?

 

[brightfame52]

How does a person believe without hearing the Gospel; the good news of what Christ did on the cross?

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:14



JLB

A person must be of God to hear Gods words Jn 8:47,43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

A saved person hears Gods words /the Gospel

 

[brightfame52]

I wonder if believing you are believing you are saved by what Christ did is really works and therefore you aren’t saved after all.

You not making sense, you trying to hard to resist the truth.

 

[JLB]

I have told you already, Lost people cant believe the Gospel, because it is hid from them resulting in them beliving not. 2 Cor 4:3-4

And I answered you with...

How the lost saved if they "cant believe"?

 

[JLB]

Do you believe a person is saved by what Christ did, or by what they did ?

I believe people saved by believing what Christ did.

He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36

The verse plainly says... he who believes in the Son has eternal life.

It doesnt say... he who has eternal life believes in the Son.





JLB

 

[JLB]

A person must be of God to hear Gods words Jn 8:47,43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

A saved person hears Gods words /the Gospel

Again you are claiming that saved people hear the Gospel to become saved?

No sir, the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for everyone who believes.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
Romans 1:16


JLB

 

[Edward]

I’m always curious as to how far the NO WORKS position goes in those brethren. I once asked one of them (other site)if loving God was necessary for salvation and the answer was negative because that’s (a) work.

Me too. I have a theory that either consciously or unconsciously, they are trying to loophole and legitimize their favorite worldly sins, somewhat legalizing them for themselves.

And Christians know that, that's a no no.

Of course I'm saved. But I can't work my way to heaven cuz that's works, so hey wow did you say that girl?! I'm after it. What? You got some good drugs? Bust em out!

And so forth like that. Oh woe is me, I'm just a sinner but God is good and will save me and transform me into a perfect being some day, la la la...

And He will say, I never knew you. And that isn't going to be a joyful moment for the Lord.

I am the righteousness of God in Christ. I am not a sinner. I am regenerated but am not yet perfected! How do we do that? Easy, be ye Holy, even as I am Holy. Which I am unable to do on my own so it keeps me clinging to the Lord, and working out my salvation with fear and trembling, that I will be found worthy to stand before Him, and to escape the things which are coming.

That's how I see it.

 

[Edward]

How does a person believe without hearing the Gospel; the good news of what Christ did on the cross?

How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:14



JLB

That's right Brother. And how to hear without a preacher?
Hi my names Edward, and I have many testimonies of God and His supernatural help fo me. How many would he like to hear?

I'm not selling any books or CD's, Not a pastor asking for donations. Never played a Pastor on TV. So I have no reason to lie. Believe or don't believe for yourself...uh-oh. We're back here again aren't we? He would still have to choose to believe it in order to be able to be encouraged by it though. I think that the Bible calls that, someone who has ears to hear.

But I am a third party direct witness to God Himself. And in the mouths of 2 or 3 witnesses the truth is established.

 

[Edward]

Do you believe a person is saved by what Christ did, or by what they did ?

How about both? Let's rephrase it for clarity, and give me your thoughts on it.

Do you believe that the Marriage supper of the Lamb happens only because of Christ, or does the Bride of Christ have something to do with it too?

In other words, no wedding can happen without a Bride And a Groom. So God gave to man Marriage so He can teach us about how to be married, and get married, so we know what do do and prepare for! Do you agree?

To plan a wedding both the groom and bride have certain responsibilities to prepare for it. Traditionally, the Groom is more busy because he's paying, but the Bride absolutely must do certain things. An example would be, no I'm not going to get you a wedding gown babe, you have to go pick that out yourself! Am I right?! You bet I am! Modern girls will want to take over food planning and photogrophers and al that to make sure their wedding is perfect and all that, with lots of help from her mom & dad which (traditionally) are footing the bill. Nowadays I think the groom pretty much gets his own tux and that's it. But the point is that the Bride has responsibilities and if she doesn't do them, the wedding son't happen! Right or not?

Now may I direct your attention to Revelation?

Revelation 19:7-8 At this time, the bride of Christ, the church, has made herself ready and is clothed in white linen, which represents her righteous acts. The implications are clear: Getting ready, walking worthy, and overcoming are the righteous acts of the saints that prepare her to be His wife in the resurrection to the Kingdom of God. So here is the 64,000 $ question: Is the Bride of Christ required to make herself ready or not? And wouldn;t this be works like you say, so she does not have to make herself ready? Your thoughts...

 

[Dorothy Mae]

How about both? Let's rephrase it for clarity, and give me your thoughts on it.

Do you believe that the Marriage supper of the Lamb happens only because of Christ, or does the Bride of Christ have something to do with it too?

In other words, no wedding can happen without a Bride And a Groom. So God gave to man Marriage so He can teach us about how to be married, and get married, so we know what do do and prepare for! Do you agree?

To plan a wedding both the groom and bride have certain responsibilities to prepare for it. Traditionally, the Groom is more busy because he's paying, but the Bride absolutely must do certain things. An example would be, no I'm not going to get you a wedding gown babe, you have to go pick that out yourself! Am I right?! You bet I am! Modern girls will want to take over food planning and photogrophers and al that to make sure their wedding is perfect and all that, with lots of help from her mom & dad which (traditionally) are footing the bill. Nowadays I think the groom pretty much gets his own tux and that's it. But the point is that the Bride has responsibilities and if she doesn't do them, the wedding son't happen! Right or not?

Now may I direct your attention to Revelation?

Revelation 19:7-8 At this time, the bride of Christ, the church, has made herself ready and is clothed in white linen, which represents her righteous acts. The implications are clear: Getting ready, walking worthy, and overcoming are the righteous acts of the saints that prepare her to be His wife in the resurrection to the Kingdom of God. So here is the 64,000 $ question: Is the Bride of Christ required to make herself ready or not? And wouldn;t this be works like you say, so she does not have to make herself ready? Your thoughts...

Actually scripture says the Bride made herself ready. The groom didn’t do it all for her.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

You not making sense, you trying to hard to resist the truth.

No, I’m actually applying your logic to a possible situation. What you are doing is resisting any work you have to do in matters of the Kingdom of God. It’s almost like the word “work” is odious.

But let me ask you, do you believe those destined for heaven right now have to love God?