Contacting the blood of Christ.

[Hopeful]

We must by the Spirit, crucify our body of sin so that we live our life from the resources of the new nature empowered by the Spirit, rather than the sin that dwells in our flesh.

That happens at our death with Christ.
The flesh was killed with Christ. (Gal 5:24)

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

If it is only symbolic, so is your rebirth.


Where are all the "symbolically" dead to sin Christians?
Where are all the men who are only symbolically dead to sin?
Where are all the symbolical non-sinners?


How long have you been an ex-sinner?


It doesn't "relieve us", it "enables" us to ignore/resist the memories of the now dead flesh.


Can the "symbolically" dead obey that command 100% ?


Yes.
I also quit serving the flesh.
It was dead, so had no power over me.

Hopeful
Boy am I going to be jumping into a pile of it here.

As far as I know there are only 2 choices in our responses to God or His responses to us in the context of this discussion.

God is either speaking in physical terms or in symbolic terms, which BOTH have POWER in our lives.

Sometimes he uses both physical and symbolic terms, not just one or the other, depending on the Context and the point God is trying to make.

You can't separate God from Himself, and try to make a point by ignoring part of Gods meaning or statements..

 

[Hopeful]

Boy am I going to be jumping into a pile of it here.
As far as I know there are only 2 choices in our responses to God or His responses to us in the context of this discussion.

God is either speaking in physical terms or in symbolic terms, which BOTH have POWER in our lives.
Sometimes he uses both physical and symbolic terms, not just one or the other, depending on the Context and the point God is trying to make.

You can't separate God from Himself, and try to make a point by ignoring part of Gods meaning or statements..

I fail to see any connection to the posts.
Do you have a POV on our interactions?
Which do you believe...Is our water baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection actual or only symbolic?

How can we prove either POV?

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

The crux of the conversation with JLB is whether or not our death, burial, and being raised with Christ to walk in newness of life with Christ is only symbolic or actual.

I know it is actual

Hopeful[ my brother
God uses symbolisms all through the Old and New Testament, so I don't understand the point your trying to make.


It does NOT say we are "symbolically" complete in Him, or "symbolically" circumcised, buried, risen with Him, or quickened together with Him.


When I was baptized I DIDN'T ACTUALLY, PHYSICALLY DIE, and I WASN"T PHYSICALLY BURIED. That was 42 years ago when I was baptized, and I'm not "PUSHING UP DAISYS YET .


Hopeful
It does NOT say we are "symbolically" complete in Him, or "symbolically" circumcised, buried, risen with Him, or quickened together with Him.

The bible doesn't have to say the word SYMBOLICALY or PHYSICALY, to understand the difference with our brains God gave to us to REASON things out as we read and study.

My name is OLIGOS[

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

I fail to see any connection to the posts.
Do you have a POV on our interactions?
Which do you believe...Is our water baptism into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection actual or only symbolic?

How can we prove either POV?

It has to be symbolic because I'm still walking around at 77 years old !!. I didn't physically die or get physically buried.
Is that proof enough ??

God uses metaphors and symbolisms.

I think your trying to be to LITERAL.

Love you bro.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[JLB]

If it is only symbolic, so is your rebirth.

No one is born again by wster baptism. We are born again by the Spirit, through the Gospel.

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:22-23

 

[JLB]

Why cant it apply to both physical and eternal death? (First and second death)
Sin has the same effect in both.

Context

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

Context

JLB
One word isn't enough for Him.
Explain what you mean.

Give him the long answer if you have to.
Lay it out for him and be patient.

Love you bro.
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Hopeful]

Are you walking in "newness of life"?

 

[Hopeful]

It has to be symbolic because I'm still walking around at 77 years old !!. I didn't physically die or get physically buried.
Is that proof enough ??

God uses metaphors and symbolisms.

I think your trying to be to LITERAL.

Love you bro.
My name is OLIGOS

By the same logic, I am walking around as a new creature, with a divine nature.
I did die, was buried, and was raised with Christ to walk in that new life, actually.

 

[Hopeful]

No one is born again by wster baptism. We are born again by the Spirit, through the Gospel.

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:22-23

If that has enabled you live without sin...let me know.
But with your old flesh calling the shots, I doubt it is possible.

 

[Hopeful]

Context

Add Romans 8 to your context...
1) There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Now the BIG question...Is your body dead?

 

[JLB]

Now the BIG question...Is your body dead?

No

 

[JLB]

9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10) And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

I don’t know how many times I have quoted Romans 8, and the passages that show us, it is by the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh. Not water baptism.


There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1


Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

How can we live our life according to the flesh if we are literally dead. To be literally dead means our spirit is not in us any longer. We are to enforce the “mindset“ of “reckoning ourselves“ to be dead. We wouldn’t need to “reckon ourselves“ to be dead to sin if we were literally dead.

• but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

How can a body that is literally dead, perform “deeds”?


Paul is teaching us we must live our life from the born again new nature that is created after the image of Christ, in righteousness and true holiness and is empowered by the Spirit.


But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. Ephesians 4:20-24

• that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man

...and be renewed in the spirit of your mind

• that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness

JLB

 

[JLB]

If that has enabled you live without sin...let me know.
But with your old flesh calling the shots, I doubt it is possible.

I guess I don’t really understand this comment. I think everyone can see from my writings I am certainly no promoting the idea we live the new life by our old flesh. If that’s what you mean.


My motive is to encourage you to consider there is more to this walk of the Spirit, this walking in the newness of life, than being baptized in water.


If we try and make a one time experience such as water baptism or baptism with the Spirit or being regenerated, the end all be all to the Christian life, we are already defeated.


We must take these things and employ them all in our life as well as feeding on fresh manna everyday, while meditating on Hos word as well as asking Him to renew our mind, asking Him to teach us to walk as He walked, asking Him to give us wisdom to do His instructions would that we are being transformed into His image and manifesting the true righteousness and holiness while actively escaping the corruptions of this world through lust;

The lust of the eyes
The lust of the flesh
The pride of life



We are desperate everyday, to put the old man under, and put on the new man; which begins with a new mindset; the mind of Christ.


If we somehow believe water baptism has already accomplished this, then we are easily defeated by Satan.


Peter says it this way —

• But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.

Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:2-11





JLB

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

If we try and make a one time experience such as water baptism or baptism with the Spirit or being regenerated, the end all be all to the Christian life, we are already defeated.

JLB BOY, do you and I connect here with you, and agree.
Even believing in Jesus as your savior is not enough to save you, if you don't move on from the foundation of your faith, the "milk", and grow into a mature believing adult follower of Christ who understands the MEAT of the word.

For me it has taken decades, not because I am slow to learn, but because Gods word is so deep,, and we continually find new idea's or new information that not only can challenge us, but can cause us to change as I have over the years.

Those who stay stagnet and refuse to mature are defying God and will pay the price.

My name is OLIGOS

 

[Seasoned by Grace]

JLB andHopeful my brothers

I am confused by your questions and comments Hopeful .

Why don't you write out an explaination of how you became a believer, and what it is that you believe now, so we understand your faith and where your coming from.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's mine.
I came to Christ through SYMBOLIC water baptism,
where I SYMBOLICLY died to my sins, was SYMBOLICLY buried in baptism to become a SYMBOLIC dead sinner, and came up out of the water as a new, regenerated believer, ALIVE in Christ as my Savior.

ALL SYMBOLIC, but with GREAT POWER, in the SUPER-NATURAL POWER OF JESUS CHRIST.

In water IMMERSION baptism, I SYMBOLICALLY came into contact with the blood of the LAMB, Jesus Christ, and my SANCTIFICATION process began. Heb. 13:12
Also, at that point of being saved by SYMBOLIC contact with the blood, I was
instantly;
RECONCILED to God. 2nd Cor. 5:18
REDEEMED by the blood of the LAMB. 1st Peter 1:18
Received ATONEMENT for my sins through Christ's blood. Heb. 5:9
JUSTIFIED. Romans 5:9
FORGIVEN of my past sins. Acts 2:38, Rev. 1:5
SAVED from the bondage of sin. Heb. 13:12
Received the GIFT of the HOLY SPIRIT. Acts 2:38
EXPIATED from my sins. My certificate of debt, charges against me as a sinner, was cancelled. Col. 2:13-14
Received PROPITIATION through Christ's blood, when He "took my place at the CROSS." Romans 3:24-25

I believe in continual spiritual growth for continual SALVATION.
I believe in continual participation in communion for continual SAVATION.
I believe in continual obediance of the 10 commandments for continual SALVATION.
As part of #3, I believe in the continual obedience to the 4th commandment, to CELEBRATE THE SABBATH WEEKLY for SALVATION.
I believe salvation is CONDITIONAL, and can be GIVEN UP at any point of our walk in Jesus Christ.
I believe that salvation ONLY comes through the contact with the blood of Jesus Christ, ONLY through IMMERSION water baptism.
I believe there is incredible SUPER-NATURAL POWER, through Jesus Christ, in all CHRISTS SYMBOLIZIMS.
I believe that FEW who call themselves believers will enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Matth. 7:14, Luke 13:23-24, Matth. 7:21.

Well Hopeful , there I am, laid out BARE and NAKED in my faith. Can you do the same?
My name is OLIGOS

 

[Hopeful]

No

Please let me reword that question.
Was your old body killed before your rebirth?

 

[Hopeful]

I don’t know how many times I have quoted Romans 8, and the passages that show us, it is by the Spirit we put to death the deeds of the flesh. Not water baptism.

The Spirit uses the water baptism to allow our crucifixion, burial, and resurrection with Christ.
1 Cor 12:13 works in tandem with 1 Cor 6:11..."For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit."
"And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God."

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:
Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

• if you live according to the flesh you will die;

How can we live our life according to the flesh if we are literally dead. To be literally dead means our spirit is not in us any longer. We are to enforce the “mindset“ of “reckoning ourselves“ to be dead. We wouldn’t need to “reckon ourselves“ to be dead to sin if we were literally dead.

We can't.
That is why we CAN live our lives in the Spirit instead of in the flesh.

but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
How can a body that is literally dead, perform “deeds”?

It is God's vessel after our rebirth and quickening by the Holy Spirit.
He does the deeds.

Paul is teaching us we must live our life from the born again new nature that is created after the image of Christ, in righteousness and true holiness and is empowered by the Spirit.
But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. Ephesians 4:20-24

• that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man

...and be renewed in the spirit of your mind that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness
JLB

That is not possible to do for those who walk in the flesh and not the Spirit.

 

[Hopeful]

I guess I don’t really understand this comment. I think everyone can see from my writings I am certainly no promoting the idea we live the new life by our old flesh. If that’s what you mean.

Has your "way" enabled you to live without sin?
That is what I mean.

My motive is to encourage you to consider there is more to this walk of the Spirit, this walking in the newness of life, than being baptized in water.

Water baptism is the second fundamental step in this walk in the Spirit. (Acts 2:38)
Only a true, permanent, repentance from sin precedes it.

If we try and make a one time experience such as water baptism or baptism with the Spirit or being regenerated, the end all be all to the Christian life, we are already defeated.

The "end" will be Christians who cannot be defeated.

We must take these things and employ them all in our life as well as feeding on fresh manna everyday, while meditating on His word as well as asking Him to renew our mind, asking Him to teach us to walk as He walked, asking Him to give us wisdom to do His instructions would that we are being transformed into His image and manifesting the true righteousness and holiness while actively escaping the corruptions of this world through lust;
The lust of the eyes
The lust of the flesh
The pride of life

I have done just that, without denigrating the importance of water baptism.
Without the water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, and into Christ and into His death, burial, and resurrection, we cannot do any of it.

We are desperate everyday, to put the old man under, and put on the new man; which begins with a new mindset; the mind of Christ.

I am "desperate" everyday to KEEP the old man dead, and live with the new mind of Christ provided at my resurrection with Christ.
"He" was put under at my death with Jesus.

If we somehow believe water baptism has already accomplished this, then we are easily defeated by Satan.

By NOT believing it, we allow the old man and its influence to continue to steer us toward the second death.

Peter says it this way —But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love.
Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord, as His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of Him who called us by glory and virtue, by which have been given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.
Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2 Peter 1:2-11

I find it interesting that the same author wrote Acts 2:38 and 1 Peter 3:21.
"Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost."
"The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us.... by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:"