Could God's plan for the lost be this simple?

[Alfred Persson]

Yes in the days of the apostles the true religion was there, but then all but 1 of them was murdered( he died natural) and then the followers were being murdered, The religion was basically murdered. The religion out of Rome rose up= The great apostasy= the son of destruction( 2 Thess 2:3)--she was the tree trunk-33,999 branches off of her could not fix all the wrong she brought in. Truth came back here in these last days-Daniel 12:4)--A good tree produces good fruit- a rotten tree produces rotten fruit.
There is a foretold presence of Christ- Matt 24:37--1Cor 15:23--This occurred here at Rev 6 when he gets his crown.

While we are discussing Catholicism and how its pope his magisterim are not found in the NT, let's compare how brain dead it was to establish a Governing Body supposedly run by remnants of the 144,000 and claim its teachings are in the NT.

THIS is a prophecy, the 144,000 don't exist yet, but they are the WatchTower's Governing Body now? Charles Taze Russell was Scottish Irish, born in Allegheny Pennsylvania, not of the twelve tribes of Israel.

3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: (Rev. 7:3-4 NKJ)

Pope Russell noticed how everyone escaped from his lies if they read the Bible alone, so he invented the WatchTower magazine to prevent that from happening.

Too bad "Pope Russell" is now beneath the ground, no doubt inspiring foul smelling cabbages. I'd like to meet the man always believing he had a point---he did, his head.

 

[keiw1]

Even Charles Tze Russell knew the Bible did not teach Watchtower Doctrines:

Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years---if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness.-The Watchtower, from Sept. 15, 1910


So blinded by Satan was CT Russell, he calls Bible teaching "darkness."

Hey! That's what you do too!

There is a lot of symbolism in the bible. Those not taught by the teachers who have Jesus remain in darkness their whole life no matter how many times they read the bible, Catholicism has had over 1700 years and cant even understand the milk let alone the meat. And not a single branch off her fixed it because they are being mislead into supporting satans will using altered translations that removed Gods name.

 

[keiw1]

Don't you think that being reborn of God's seed changes people? (1 John 3:9)
I will now live forever, so how is that mortal?
My vessel is the only thing that will change in the coming eons, and it cannot commit sin.

Even Paul worried about losing his good standing.

 

[keiw1]

You are right about the mortals, but I don't consider myself as one of those.
I have been allowed to kill that which was born of Adam's seed,...(Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. Rom 6:3-7)...
...and be reborn of God's seed. (1 John 3:9)

I guess you will find out the hard way. We all sin.

 

[keiw1]

Your theory contradicts reality. The NT is not a Catholic creation, the apostles wrote it. It is correct Roman Catholicism with its priests and popes and dogmas ARE NOT seen in the pages of the NT, but its equally correct Wathtowerism is not seen it it either. No one is selling Awake and Watchtower magazines, no one lives in "Bethel" where all sorts of sin and perversion occur in the darkness. You can read all about that from former residents.

Just as the NT seems to agree with some Catholic teaching but not all, so it is with the Watchtower. The NT so greatly disagrees with Catholicism they invented a pope and magisterium to keep Catholics in line. The Jehovah's Witnesses did the same thing, inventing the "Governing Body" all ruled by self-proclaimed class of "Anointed Ones" claiming to be of the 144,000.

The WatchTower's first pope Charles Taze Russell was clearly a fool, no doubt he regretted opening his mouth only to change feet very often. The following was a particularly brain dead thing to say, especially when you are trying to deceive people YOUR Teaching is what the Bible teaches:

"Furthermore, not only do we find that people cannot see the divine plan in studying the Bible by itself, but we see, also, that if anyone lays the SCRIPTURE STUDIES aside, even after he has used them, after he has become familiar with them, after he has read them for ten years---if he then lays them aside and ignores them and goes to the Bible alone, though he has understood his Bible for ten years, our experience shows that within two years he goes into darkness."-The Watchtower, from Sept. 15, 1910

"Pope Russell" was clearly depriving a village somewhere of an idiot. But he had the qualities necessary for real success in cultism--- rat like cunning, a plausible manner and a little literary ability.

Mr Russell wasnt a Pope, so stop making unreal things in your thinking. None can see Gods reality without being taught by these-Matthew 24:45--Jesus appoints them.
Example the blind guides religions, who have had centuries reading the bible, Teach their sadist God who would throw justice away and condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of suffering for one who sinned for 70-100 years. What dont they understand about this simple bible milk? An eye for an eye= perfect balance is justice--All of Gods ways are justice-Deut 32:4--Do you see balance in that eternal suffering scenario above? Did those blind guides miss this simple bible milk at Deut 30:19- The true God set before all-Life or death--not eternal suffering. Both are eternal. And as well like their best attributes in their darkness throw Jesus truth away--He said--Those walking the broad and spacious path will be to destruction--not eternal life of suffering. You see they cannot understand Gods written word after all these centuries-Mr Russell was 100% correct.

 

[keiw1]

While we are discussing Catholicism and how its pope his magisterim are not found in the NT, let's compare how brain dead it was to establish a Governing Body supposedly run by remnants of the 144,000 and claim its teachings are in the NT.

THIS is a prophecy, the 144,000 don't exist yet, but they are the WatchTower's Governing Body now? Charles Taze Russell was Scottish Irish, born in Allegheny Pennsylvania, not of the twelve tribes of Israel.

3 saying, "Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads."
4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel were sealed: (Rev. 7:3-4 NKJ)

Pope Russell noticed how everyone escaped from his lies if they read the Bible alone, so he invented the WatchTower magazine to prevent that from happening.

Too bad "Pope Russell" is now beneath the ground, no doubt inspiring foul smelling cabbages. I'd like to meet the man always believing he had a point---he did, his head.

Jesus established his governing body= apostles) back then- Jesus appoints his real teachers and governing body.
Literal Israel is cut off of being Gods chosen, Matt 23:38-39--They have outright refused to do verse 39 for over 1950 years, they never will. Spiritual Israel meaning Gods chosen was referred to as Israel in Revelation-John had no clue what the religion would be called in these last days so he referenced Israel, just meaning-Gods chosen.
See you think you understand but are sure in the darkness. Because you are being taught by the darkness.

 

[Alfred Persson]

There is a lot of symbolism in the bible. Those not taught by the teachers who have Jesus remain in darkness their whole life no matter how many times they read the bible, Catholicism has had over 1700 years and cant even understand the milk let alone the meat. And not a single branch off her fixed it because they are being mislead into supporting satans will using altered translations that removed Gods name.

The Watchtower theory God's Name has been removed from every Greek manuscript, every early translation into Latin, Coptic, Syriac, etc., and in every New Testament quote in papyri fragments, makes dinosaurs with walnut sized brains seem like geniuses.

Jewish scribes did not remove the divine name from the Hebrew Scriptures, so why would Jewish Christians do so from the NT?

AND if anyone had the power to remove the Divine Name from every NT Greek mss and fragment, then none of the Bible is reliable.

The Watchtower loves to quote scholarship how reliable the Bible is, how it can be completely trusted. BUT THEN, in a monumental rejection of that truth, claim all the copies of the NT Greek and early translations of it, had the divine Name removed!!!

The stupidity of that takes stupid to new heights. Perhaps high above the earth in the WatchTower, they've been short of oxygen a bit too long?

 

[Alfred Persson]

Jesus established his governing body= apostles) back then- Jesus appoints his real teachers and governing body.
Literal Israel is cut off of being Gods chosen, Matt 23:38-39--They have outright refused to do verse 39 for over 1950 years, they never will. Spiritual Israel meaning Gods chosen was referred to as Israel in Revelation-John had no clue what the religion would be called in these last days so he referenced Israel, just meaning-Gods chosen.
See you think you understand but are sure in the darkness. Because you are being taught by the darkness.

The apostles didn't sell Awake and Watchtower magazines. They didn't go to Kingdom Halls. They didn't claim to belong to the 144,000.

And the apostles believed that Jesus is YHWH the Son.

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of YHWH Shall be saved. (Joel 2:32 NKJ)

Guess who Peter said is YHWH in that text?

21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.'
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know (Acts 2:21-22 NKJ)

How can we be certain its not the name of JEHOVAH (YHWH) that saves here?

11 "This is the`stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:11-12 NKJ)

Peter is talking about Jesus, YHWH the Son, not YHWH the Father.

The Governing Body's Watchtower is not to be tossed slightly aside, it should be hurled with great force.

 

[Cooper]

The apostles didn't sell Awake and Watchtower magazines. They didn't go to Kingdom Halls. They didn't claim to belong to the 144,000.

And the apostles believed that Jesus is YHWH the Son.

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of YHWH Shall be saved. (Joel 2:32 NKJ)

Guess who Peter said is YHWH in that text?

21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.'
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know (Acts 2:21-22 NKJ)

How can we be certain its not the name of JEHOVAH (YHWH) that saves here?

11 "This is the`stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:11-12 NKJ)

Peter is talking about Jesus, YHWH the Son, not YHWH the Father.

The Governing Body's Watchtower is not to be tossed slightly aside, it should be hurled with great force.

Jesus, his name on earth, is, was and always will be God with us from the foundation of the earth.
.

 

[Alfred Persson]

Mr Russell wasnt a Pope, so stop making unreal things in your thinking. None can see Gods reality without being taught by these-Matthew 24:45--Jesus appoints them.
Example the blind guides religions, who have had centuries reading the bible, Teach their sadist God who would throw justice away and condemn one to trillions x trillions x trillions of never ending years of suffering for one who sinned for 70-100 years. What dont they understand about this simple bible milk? An eye for an eye= perfect balance is justice--All of Gods ways are justice-Deut 32:4--Do you see balance in that eternal suffering scenario above? Did those blind guides miss this simple bible milk at Deut 30:19- The true God set before all-Life or death--not eternal suffering. Both are eternal. And as well like their best attributes in their darkness throw Jesus truth away--He said--Those walking the broad and spacious path will be to destruction--not eternal life of suffering. You see they cannot understand Gods written word after all these centuries-Mr Russell was 100% correct.

He wanted to be Pope, just didn't like the title. You point to Catholic inspired eschatology to smear all Christianity, so its you who made things up. Reality is, many Christians object to way those doctrines been applied to everyone because Scripture contradicts that idea.

But eternal torment for Satan, his angels, and all who choose to be like them, is taught in scripture. For example. all who accept the Mark of the Beast:

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)

But the WatchTower rejects this, declaring the wicked will go unpunished. Satan, his angels, all who accept the Mark of the Beast, will be annihilated upon death, and God won't clone His memory of them so they vanish forever.

The WatchTower also says faithful Jehovah's Witnesses, who spent thousands of hour hustling Awake and Watchtower magazines, creeping into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins.

They too are annihilated because only their recreated clones will "come to life" in God's kingdom.

What??? Yes, that is right. God clones His memory of them, so their clones get all the reward for serving His Kingdom----

Wait a minute, the person who did all the work remains dead and buried!

Don't worry, the clone won't care about that!

Rational people will immediately question this report, EVEN Jehovah's witnesses can't be that stupid.

Well, read it for yourself, you tell me:

In Is This Life All There Is? the Watchtower says:

"Similar to what happens at the time of conception, at the time of the resurrection or re-creation …Jehovah…is capable of having an accurate record by which to re-create one who has died.

We can have confidence in Jehovah's perfect memory. Why, even imperfect humans, by means of videotape, can preserve and construct visible and audible reproductions of persons. Far greater is God's ability to keep such records, for he calls all the numberless stars by name!-Psalm 147:4

It can be seen, therefore, that resurrection or recreation is possible because the deceased individual lives in God's memory...

'But if a person is thus re-created,' someone may say, 'is he really the same person? Is he not just a copy?' -Is This Life All There Is, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, 1974, pp. 173, 172.

Yes, he is "just a copy". Let's do a thought experiment to verify this:

God doesn't wait for the "recreation", He clones His memory of you now. And that clone goes to your house. Upon seeing you in its bed it proceeds to "kill and bury you in the garden, so you can fertilize the daisy's".

QUESTION: Did you die?

If you say yes, then a clone is just a copy of you. You remain dead.


Someone was using the WatchTower's community brain cell when they invented this "recreation dogma", it bears NO resemblance whatsoever to Bible's teaching of "resurrection."

Clearly:

In a WatchTower filled with nitwits, the half wit is king. I give you: Pope Charles Taze Russell, the only genius with an IQ of 60.

 

[Hopeful]

Even Paul worried about losing his good standing.

Yes, he sure did.
I thank God for inspiring him to write 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
I take great comfort in that verse.

 

[Hopeful]

I guess you will find out the hard way. We all sin.

If your "we" is the unregenerated, unbelieving, unsanctified, unjustified, wicked person of this world...you are right.
But that group is from whence I left.
Salvation is available to you and your loved ones too.

 

[keiw1]

The Watchtower theory God's Name has been removed from every Greek manuscript, every early translation into Latin, Coptic, Syriac, etc., and in every New Testament quote in papyri fragments, makes dinosaurs with walnut sized brains seem like geniuses.

Jewish scribes did not remove the divine name from the Hebrew Scriptures, so why would Jewish Christians do so from the NT?

AND if anyone had the power to remove the Divine Name from every NT Greek mss and fragment, then none of the Bible is reliable.

The Watchtower loves to quote scholarship how reliable the Bible is, how it can be completely trusted. BUT THEN, in a monumental rejection of that truth, claim all the copies of the NT Greek and early translations of it, had the divine Name removed!!!

The stupidity of that takes stupid to new heights. Perhaps high above the earth in the WatchTower, they've been short of oxygen a bit too long?

Every scholar on earth knows its 100% fact about Gods name being removed. In 2015, the divine name kjv came out. They put the name back in the OT but not in the NT. Jerome one of the first translators told the Pope Gods name belongs in the NT. Every spot the OT where Gods name belongs it as well belongs in the NT in those spots quoting the OT where the name belongs. God willed his name in those spots, satans will had it removed--Do you understand that fact? The JW bible made the corrections necessary. It can be trusted. The NWT was condemned by those supporting satans will over Gods will because truth exposes them as false religion.

 

[Hopeful]

Every scholar on earth knows its 100% fact about Gods name being removed. In 2015, the divine name kjv came out. They put the name back in the OT but not in the NT. Jerome one of the first translators told the Pope Gods name belongs in the NT. Every spot the OT where Gods name belongs it as well belongs in the NT in those spots quoting the OT where the name belongs. God willed his name in those spots, satans will had it removed--Do you understand that fact? The JW bible made the corrections necessary. It can be trusted. The NWT was condemned by those supporting satans will over Gods will because truth exposes them as false religion.

God loves everyone who refers to Him with love in any manner.
Why would He be angry with someone who loves Him and calls Him "God the Almighty"?
Or "Abba"?

 

[keiw1]

The apostles didn't sell Awake and Watchtower magazines. They didn't go to Kingdom Halls. They didn't claim to belong to the 144,000.

And the apostles believed that Jesus is YHWH the Son.

And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of YHWH Shall be saved. (Joel 2:32 NKJ)

Guess who Peter said is YHWH in that text?

21 And it shall come to pass That whoever calls on the name of the LORD Shall be saved.'
22 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know (Acts 2:21-22 NKJ)

How can we be certain its not the name of JEHOVAH (YHWH) that saves here?

11 "This is the`stone which was rejected by you builders, which has become the chief cornerstone.'
12 "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." (Acts 4:11-12 NKJ)

Peter is talking about Jesus, YHWH the Son, not YHWH the Father.

The Governing Body's Watchtower is not to be tossed slightly aside, it should be hurled with great force.

No the apostles did not believe Jesus was YHWH. The Israelite religion knew 100% the Messiah has a God like us-Psalm 45:7--Paul and Peter both teach the Father is Jesus' God-Coll 1:3, Ephesians 1:13,17, 2Cor 1:3--1Cor 15:24-28--1Peter 1:3--Jesus teaches the Father is his God-John 20:17, Rev 3:12-- We all must choose with our free will who we believe. Its 100% fact-The teachers Jesus appoints teach exactly what he teaches.
In the OT where Gods name belongs it clearly shows-YHWH( LORD) said to my Lord( Jesus)- proving he is not YHWH.

 

[keiw1]

He wanted to be Pope, just didn't like the title. You point to Catholic inspired eschatology to smear all Christianity, so its you who made things up. Reality is, many Christians object to way those doctrines been applied to everyone because Scripture contradicts that idea.

But eternal torment for Satan, his angels, and all who choose to be like them, is taught in scripture. For example. all who accept the Mark of the Beast:

9 Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
10 "he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 "And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." (Rev. 14:9-11 NKJ)

But the WatchTower rejects this, declaring the wicked will go unpunished. Satan, his angels, all who accept the Mark of the Beast, will be annihilated upon death, and God won't clone His memory of them so they vanish forever.

The WatchTower also says faithful Jehovah's Witnesses, who spent thousands of hour hustling Awake and Watchtower magazines, creeping into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins.

They too are annihilated because only their recreated clones will "come to life" in God's kingdom.

What??? Yes, that is right. God clones His memory of them, so their clones get all the reward for serving His Kingdom----

Wait a minute, the person who did all the work remains dead and buried!

Don't worry, the clone won't care about that!

Rational people will immediately question this report, EVEN Jehovah's witnesses can't be that stupid.

Well, read it for yourself, you tell me:

In Is This Life All There Is? the Watchtower says:

"Similar to what happens at the time of conception, at the time of the resurrection or re-creation …Jehovah…is capable of having an accurate record by which to re-create one who has died.

We can have confidence in Jehovah's perfect memory. Why, even imperfect humans, by means of videotape, can preserve and construct visible and audible reproductions of persons. Far greater is God's ability to keep such records, for he calls all the numberless stars by name!-Psalm 147:4

It can be seen, therefore, that resurrection or recreation is possible because the deceased individual lives in God's memory...

'But if a person is thus re-created,' someone may say, 'is he really the same person? Is he not just a copy?' -Is This Life All There Is, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society, 1974, pp. 173, 172.

Yes, he is "just a copy". Let's do a thought experiment to verify this:

God doesn't wait for the "recreation", He clones His memory of you now. And that clone goes to your house. Upon seeing you in its bed it proceeds to "kill and bury you in the garden, so you can fertilize the daisy's".

QUESTION: Did you die?

If you say yes, then a clone is just a copy of you. You remain dead.


Someone was using the WatchTower's community brain cell when they invented this "recreation dogma", it bears NO resemblance whatsoever to Bible's teaching of "resurrection."

Clearly:

In a WatchTower filled with nitwits, the half wit is king. I give you: Pope Charles Taze Russell, the only genius with an IQ of 60.

I will start a thread today about the teachings of Jesus, found in every translation on earth.--All can compare those teachings to what they are being taught and who actually teaches what Jesus taught-His real teachers do.

 

[keiw1]

Yes, he sure did.
I thank God for inspiring him to write 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
I take great comfort in that verse.

Yes one can escape and it goes the other way as well. One can fall away. Like Solomon did when he turned to false god worship later in his life. He was Gods anointed king-he couldnt beat satan, yet God said he was the wisest man who ever lived( up till that point) no comparison to Jesus. The bible warns-beware if one thinks they are standing.

 

[keiw1]

Yes, he sure did.
I thank God for inspiring him to write 1 Cor 10:13..."There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it."
I take great comfort in that verse.

One can believe they are saved, But Jesus assures one must endure until their end to be saved Matt 10:22--Endure living now doing Jesus' Fathers will in this satan ruled system( Matt 7:21) --Because satan and his teachers transform into angels of light-easily fooling mortals( 2Cor 11:12-15) 99% are mislead. Jesus compares these last days to Noahs day( 99.9% mislead) Luke 17:26-- The mark of the beast will look very good to the mortal heart--No wonder the bible teaches-EVERY kingdom( govt, armies, supporters) will be mislead by 3 inspired expressions from satans side to stand in opposition to Jesus at Armageddon. Rev 16--they are now as well.

 

[keiw1]

God loves everyone who refers to Him with love in any manner.
Why would He be angry with someone who loves Him and calls Him "God the Almighty"?
Or "Abba"?

Romans 10:13-14

 

[Hopeful]

Yes one can escape and it goes the other way as well. One can fall away. Like Solomon did when he turned to false god worship later in his life. He was Gods anointed king-he couldnt beat satan, yet God said he was the wisest man who ever lived( up till that point) no comparison to Jesus. The bible warns-beware if one thinks they are standing.

I will dwell with the escapees, and not the fallers.