Cultivating a love for the truth… The Doctrine of Christ.

[Hopeful 2]

What about his other truths?

Matthew 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;
Unless you are a nun writing these posts from monastery electronics, you have treasures on earth.

That one didn't free me from committing sin, like John 8:32-34's truth did.
I do have things of value on the earth, and they were all given to me by God.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

That truth leads to the one that did make me free from sin...immersion into Christ's death, burial, and resurrection.

What Paul says would have no relevance to somebody who thinks like you do. There would be no reason for Paul to continue to write if you are correct. Why all the do not's?
Romans 6:12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.

Paul wasn't writing just to those already converted.
I read and heard those verses many times, before I took them to heart.

Actually your view fits the made up argument against Calvinism that "once you are saved, you can continue to live like the devil and still be saved" because rape and murder and stealing are covered under the blood.

That doesn't sound like an anti-Calvinism thought.
In fact it is Calvinism !
"God picked you, so do whatever you want "!

Or if you believe that nobody born again, never does anything wrong (another word for sin - missing the mark), then from my experience no Christian I have ever met was born again.

You are right, as God's seed cannot bear evil fruit. (1 John 3:9)

Husbands and wives fight and argue with each other, members fight and argue over the color of the rug and a million little things I won't try to take the time to write. I don't know how many people will gripe to me about something the pastor or elder has said or done rather than talking directly to the person themselves. In Revelation it talks about the timid having their place in the lake of fire.

You seem quit familiar with the poser-life style.
Want to get familiar with the like-Christ life style ?

Rev 21:8 But the cowardly . . . . . .have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."
From δέος deos (dread); timid
All these people were too timid or fearful to talk to the pastor themselves, it is easier to just gripe about it to somebody else.

Like you are now ?

 

[Whatever]

That doesn't sound like an anti-Calvinism thought.
In fact it is Calvinism !
"God picked you, so do whatever you want "!

Here's the real view from the Westminster Confession:

CHAPTER 17​

Of the Perseverance of the Saints​

1. They, whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

2. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

3. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; and, for a time, continue therein: whereby they incur God’s displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.

Question, Why these verses:
Hebrews 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
12:10 . . . .He disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Why does a sinless person need to be disciplined? You are already holy and righteous.

 

[Whatever]

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. Romans 6:12
Your physical body was not born again, as you claim.

Yes, I believe Paul talks about this in these verses.

Romans 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Our salvation and sanctification is not complete until our mortal bodies are glorified at the resurrection.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Here's the real view from the Westminster Confession:

CHAPTER 17​

Of the Perseverance of the Saints​

1. They, whom God hath accepted in his Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.

2. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father; upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ, the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them, and the nature of the covenant of grace: from all which ariseth also the certainty and infallibility thereof.

3. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins; and, for a time, continue therein: whereby they incur God’s displeasure, and grieve his Holy Spirit, come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts, have their hearts hardened, and their consciences wounded; hurt and scandalize others, and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.

Just more of a man's wisdom.

Question, Why these verses:
Hebrews 12:6 For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives.”
12:10 . . . .He disciplines us for our good, that we may share his holiness.
11 For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.

Why does a sinless person need to be disciplined? You are already holy and righteous.

He doesn't discipline those who obey Him.
For what would the obedient need to be chastised for ?

 

[Whatever]

He doesn't discipline those who obey Him.
For what would the obedient need to be chastised for ?

Hebrews 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.

No disciplining, no pruning, something is wrong.

 

[live2blive]

You will have to make a point and post the actual scripture.

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8,9).

The point is clear and cannot be expressed better. He who sins is of the devil. Son of God came to take away sin. Whosoever is born of God cannot sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Hebrews 12:8 If you are left without discipline, in which all have participated, then you are illegitimate children and not sons.

I have been disciplined, for the things I did prior to my conversion.
God doesn't chasten those who obey Him.
Why would He ?

John 15:2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
No disciplining, no pruning, something is wrong.

I agree with that statement, if aimed at those who are disobedient and not bringing forth any fruit of God's seed.
You almost seem to want to be chastened.
All it would prove, would be disobedience.

 

[JLB]

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8,9).

The point is clear and cannot be expressed better. He who sins is of the devil. Son of God came to take away sin. Whosoever is born of God cannot sin.

Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:7-9


If you put a bandage on someone does that mean you are a doctor who practices medicine?

If we should sin, we can confess our sin and be forgiven.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2



JLB

 

[Hopeful 2]

Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:7-9


If you put a bandage on someone does that mean you are a doctor who practices medicine?

If we should sin, we can confess our sin and be forgiven.

My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2

Whoever added "practices" to the bible verse, is an accommodator of sin.
He/they should repent of their wickedness.

 

[Whatever]

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (1 John 3:8,9).

The point is clear and cannot be expressed better. He who sins is of the devil. Son of God came to take away sin. Whosoever is born of God cannot sin.

It's only clear if you don't see the tenses in these words (in the Greek)

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not - (ouch hamartanei) - active indicative of hamartanō, “does not keep on sinning.”

1 John 3:6 whosoever sinneth - (ho hamartanōn) - Present (linear) active articular participle “the one who keeps on sinning” (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as hamartēsas, aorist active participle, would mean).

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin (ho poiōn tēn hamartian) - “He that keeps on doing sin” (the habit of sin).

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (hamartian ou poiei) - Linear present active indicative - The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

1 John 3:9 and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (kai ou dunatai hamartanein) he cannot go on sinning.

A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here.

 

[live2blive]

Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 1 John 3:7-9
JLB

As you correctly said previously, " Yes understanding the word begins with reading what the word actually says, not what we try and force it to say.

Again adding to His word is a recipe for disaster."

 

[live2blive]

It's only clear if you don't see the tenses in these words (in the Greek)

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not - (ouch hamartanei) - active indicative of hamartanō, “does not keep on sinning.”

1 John 3:6 whosoever sinneth - (ho hamartanōn) - Present (linear) active articular participle “the one who keeps on sinning” (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as hamartēsas, aorist active participle, would mean).

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin (ho poiōn tēn hamartian) - “He that keeps on doing sin” (the habit of sin).

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (hamartian ou poiei) - Linear present active indicative - The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

1 John 3:9 and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (kai ou dunatai hamartanein) he cannot go on sinning.

A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here.

"Some have claimed that since the verbs sin (hamartano) and poieo (to do, to commit, to practice, used with the noun sin in v. 9) are in the present tense, they mean keeps on sinning or continues to practice sin. In other words, they say John is not talking about occasional sin or sin in an absolute sense, but habitual repeated sin (called iterative action). Some Bible translations reflect this interpretation in verse 6 and/or verse 9 (e.g., NIV, NET Bible, ESV, NASB). However, if used in a habitual sense, the present tense would need additional words that clearly indicate repeated action. There is nothing inherent in the present tense itself that demands a continual or repetitive action, and John’s readers should not be expected to catch such a subtle use of the present tense. A habitual use of the present tense in 1:8 and 5:16 would be inconsistent with its use in 3:9. (Also, try making sense of a continuous action in a verse like John 6:33—“For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven . . .”) Apparently, this mistranslation of the present tense is theologically derived and assigned by those who teach that those who are genuinely saved will not persevere in sin.

There are other problems as well. What sins would qualify as habitual—anger, pride, lust, or prayerlessness? And when should a sin be considered habitual—if committed once a day, once a week, once a month, or once a year?

The absolute use of the present tense for the verb sin, not the habitual use, makes perfect sense when we understand what John says about the new nature."

Real Christians Don't Sin? - 1 John 3:6, 9

If John establishes the fact that Christians sin in chapter 1, how can he say later that Christians do not sin? An incorrect interpretation of these verses has caused many Christians to doubt their salvation.

www.gracelife.org

 

[Hopeful 2]

It's only clear if you don't see the tenses in these words (in the Greek)

1 John 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not - (ouch hamartanei) - active indicative of hamartanō, “does not keep on sinning.”

1 John 3:6 whosoever sinneth - (ho hamartanōn) - Present (linear) active articular participle “the one who keeps on sinning” (lives a life of sin, not mere occasional acts of sin as hamartēsas, aorist active participle, would mean).

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin (ho poiōn tēn hamartian) - “He that keeps on doing sin” (the habit of sin).

1 John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin (hamartian ou poiei) - Linear present active indicative - The child of God does not have the habit of sin.

1 John 3:9 and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. (kai ou dunatai hamartanein) he cannot go on sinning.

A great deal of false theology has grown out of a misunderstanding of the tense of hamartanein here.

All that Greek education and all you have is permission to keep committing sin.
Do you feels as if your education was from God, or the evil one who wants us all to perish ?