Dancing in Church

[handy]

God did not ask anyone to worship as they see fit. He only asked us to worship in spirit and truth. Anything that is not in Spirit and Truth has nothing to do with Christ.

I also agree with this.

However, since God's Holy Scriptures...and the Old Testament is most certainly God's Holy Scriptures, state that we are to praise His name with dancing...how is this not worshiping in spirit and truth?

The new testament tells us to worship God in psalms...and praising His name with dancing comes directly from the Psalms that God intended for us to use...after all He inspired them and put them in His Book, did He not?

If we are not going to use God's psalms to worship Him with psalms...can you tell me which psalms we are to use instead?

 

[Stormcrow]

None of the new testament churches worshiped the Lord by dancing

New Testament doesn't mention that they used the men's room, either. Would hate to build a doctrine around that one!

 

[Stormcrow]

OK, the Kia hamsters dancing might have been too "edgy" for some.

Here's something that's really awesome!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W22gpBv00gg

Man, if that doesn't make you want to stand and cheer, don't know what will!

 

[felix]

Dancing can be motivated by the Spirit. It is an expression of joy, as has been pointed out to you elsewhere (David dancing with joy!)

Dancing is not motivated by Spirit and I can't find any scripture reference for it. As I had already mentioned in #59, the word for dancing used is actually a kind of joy.

The irony is that a church left to worship in nothing but truth is a lifeless and joyless one.

I don't know the truth you are worshiping, but the truth that I am referring is Christ as in John 14:6 who is life Himself and the Holy Spirit as in 1John 5:6 who gives Joy which is the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[Stormcrow]

Dancing is not motivated by Spirit and I can't find any scripture reference for it.

You do know that your second claim "I can't find any scripture reference for it" leaves you without any authority upon which to make your first, doesn't it?

 

[Classik]

I have the fragments together now: NO SUCH THING IN MY CHURCH.

I'll let Classik correct if I'm wrong...but I doubt that they were coupling up and swaying, man to woman, in their assembly.

The suggestion has been made (by another member here) that dance is nothing more than foreplay. I think you can take it from there.

That is impossible. It is only possible in Sodom and Gomora of the bible.

 

[Stormcrow]

As I had already mentioned in #59, the word for dancing used is actually a kind of joy.

Dancing is an expression of joy. The context of the Psalms makes clear that David was dancing out of joy.

There is far more scripture in support of dancing than you have provided as a basis for denying it.

 

[handy]

As I had already mentioned in #59, the word for dancing used is actually a kind of joy.

Can you provide any kind of source material for this...all the resources I have simply translate the word as dance.

 

[Hitch]

Can you provide any kind of source material for this...all the resources I have simply translate the word as dance.

As I had already mentioned in #59, the word for dancing used is actually a kind of joy.

LOL If he had a case this would have blown it.

 

[felix]

However, in spite of our primary disagreement over whether or not a "rule" exisits that no Christian is to ever do anything that isn't specifically mentioned in the New Testament.

Dancing is not forbidden, not a sin and I am not against dancing at all. However, dancing was never mentioned as a form of worship. It is mentioned for rejoicing as I explained in #59 but not to distract others and and not to be a stumbling block like the doctrine of Baalam.

 

[felix]

You do know that your second claim "I can't find any scripture reference for it" leaves you without any authority upon which to make your first, doesn't it?

I have scripture references for all that are given by the Spirit.

Dancing is not included.

 

[Hitch]

I have scripture references for all that are given by the Spirit.

Dancing is not included.

So in your troubled mind rejoicing before the Lord is not worship?

 

[handy]

OK, so I went back and read post #59....

(Ps 149:3) Let them praise His name with the joy [dance]; Let them sing praises to Him with the timbrel and harp.

I notice that you changed the word there, Felix, from dance to joy. I did some checking with comparative translations and overwhelmingly the word is translated as dance...and it is the same word used of David when he danced in such a way his wife took it upon herself to chastise him.

Not one translation translated the word into "joy".

I really am out of time tonight, but I'd like to pursue this a bit more, hopefully I'll have time tomorrow.

However, the main point I would like to share is that we cannot, at all, separate Psalm 149 from worshiping God. It is a Pslam specific to worshiping God.

 

[felix]

Can you provide any kind of source material for this...all the resources I have simply translate the word as dance.

When a translation is made, many translators even today, still doesn't know the meaning of certain words.

So, how the actual meaning is derived? It is based on context and the use in other places. However, you can ask any Bible scholar for the meanings of words that occurs only once or twice with no proper description, like the shape of Noah's boat (which is also used to describe the shape of the basket of Moses). But, no one really knows to best describe it to common people. Hence, the translator puts his own thoughts to describe with the best with what he can. No translator lived 3000 years back to fully understand the language and the word usage and all the ancient Hebrew/Greek languages are taught are based on the context/occurring in other places and also referring to other non-biblical sources for the use of that word.

There is also another way to cross verify. We have LXXE (Septuagint) translated from Hebrew into Greek around 300 BC. So, we have the translation with what the people understood the best in 2 languages atleast 2000 years back .

If you look into the usage of dancing esp. David, it is often related to joy not the same word used to describe the dance of Miriam. Hence, there are two words and these two words does not mean the same in original texts but English does not have those words to exactly represent it.

I believe you said, you don't dance. However, in Psalms and Proverbs, He will turn your mourning into 'dancing?'. You can still dance with sorrow (sorrow itself can dance as in Job 41:22). The actual word is 'joy' not dance because, in Jer 31:13 God turns mourning to joy, not dancing.

There must be two/three witness in the law and this is confirmed in NT as well as a witness. Christ Himself has two other witness who is His Father and the Spirit giving witness to Him. Similarly, if you have any doubt in any verse, there must be two to three witness of other verses confirming the other verse one from OT and another from NT. I can't find such witness for 'dancing' for it to be followed.

 

[felix]

OK, so I went back and read post #59....



I notice that you changed the word there, Felix, from dance to joy. I did some checking with comparative translations and overwhelmingly the word is translated as dance...and it is the same word used of David when he danced in such a way his wife took it upon herself to chastise him.

Not one translation translated the word into "joy".

I really am out of time tonight, but I'd like to pursue this a bit more, hopefully I'll have time tomorrow.

However, the main point I would like to share is that we cannot, at all, separate Psalm 149 from worshiping God. It is a Pslam specific to worshiping God.

From your reply, what I can understand is that, you never read my post.

 

[felix]

So in your troubled mind rejoicing before the Lord is not worship?

(Luke 10:21) In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from [the] wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
(Matt 28:9) And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.

Rejoicing is not the same as dancing.

 

[Webb]

Handy mabe you have not "read Hebrews extensively" enough. Read it again, especially the area where the context is that of the 2 covenants. Do you know what a covenant is? A testament? A will? I use the terms "covenant", "testament" and "will" synonymously. What happens when a 2nd testament is made and certain things in the 1st testament are not carried over into the 2nd ? Those items in the 1st testament left out of the 2nd do not have to be mentioned by name. That is inclusion and exclusion.

Maybe this will help. Which day of worship to you observe? The 7th or the 1st? Now, tell me why you observe that day rather than the other.

 

[felix]

Webb, I don't want to deviate but you have to worship the Lord every day and every moment. Neither did Christ said everyone to meet on Sundays. The point of the new covenant is not about 'worship'. Infact Christ did not even say anywhere to worship himself. But it is well understood throughout the NT that He did not want us to 'worship' Him the same way as in OT but to 'love' Him. Worship is serving God but Love is different. If a servant obeys his master, he serves him. However, if the master's son obeys his father, he does not serve but love. God never ever called anyone as his son in OT. However, in NT, He called us His son by adoption through Christ. You can command someone to worship or serve but you CANNOT command anyone in the entire globe to love someone. God wants us to love - not worship.

So, we don't have a master to serve Him by worshiping but we have a loving father to whom we obey out of love. This is why Christ did not ask anyone to worship Him. He just asked us to love Him. Neither we are created to worship God (as we see in Gen 1), God created man to rule the earth and have dominion over all His creations on earth.

totopic

Coming to worshiping by praising, dancing etc etc.. the truth drills down to what Christ asked us to do. He asked us to love Him and love others. If we don't love others and sing praise songs and dance, we don't worship and it not the worship used in NT.

So, dancing is NOT what Christ expects from us anytime. David could have worshiped (served) God in OT by dancing. But, we have to love (obey Him by loving others) God in NT which has nothing to do with dancing.

 

[Webb]

Hi Felix

I understand and accept the concept of worship to God given on a daily basis. The point I make for this discussion is that the Jews were commanded the Sabbath. The church in the NT met on the 1st day, I Cor. 16:1,2 and Acts 20:7. On which day of the week do you assemble with brethren for worship, the 1st or the 7th? To identify which day may clear a point.

 

[Hitch]

(Luke 10:21) In that hour Jesus rejoiced in the Spirit and said, "I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from [the] wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.
(Matt 28:9) And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him.

Rejoicing is not the same as dancing.

<sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-14904">3</sup>But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice. <sup class="versenum" id="en-KJV-14905">4</sup>Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name JAH, and rejoice before him.