- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
Lets look at this part " the angels that sinned " .
What sin did these angels who were locked up commit ?
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
-
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
-
devils
- Thread starter memberofkingdom
- Start date
What sin did these angels who were locked up commit ?
- Feb 2, 2015
- 1,796
- 131
None.
They were created sinful.
Lucifer's sin was 'found' in him
I don't see it as God created Lucifer and didn't know what He was creating and while looking him over 'found" sin. The word means "going forth."
I find being created a spirit being different from being created from dirt and the breath of life from God making man a living soul. One 'flesh' differs in glory from another.
But I also accept that there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him, and He gives His glory to NO ONE. So, whatever the final product of creation whether angel or man resulted they will be fallen short of His glory. There is only ONE Person that can stand before a Holy God blameless and that is a Holy Son.
Since Lucifer's sin was a "going forth" I surmise this "going forth" were his thoughts within him as he contemplated to act on his rebellion for the mere thinking of "ascending into heaven" is rebellion enough to receive swift handling by God before the act was consummated. Jesus saying, "I beheld Satan falling down from heaven like lightning" as referencing God casting him and his fellow angels that sinned down to hell and delivered in chains of darkness reserved unto judgment the moment of his contemplation and subsequent captivity which I place between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.
- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
I ask What sin did they commit , and you say none !
Do you believe scripture jeremiah1five .
I have not once said that the angels that sinned are not locked up . But you can't find the angels sin they committed .
Reap what you sow .
You have talked yourself to the point of the angels that sinned did not commit a sin . I can not believe you said that .
Last edited:
- Feb 2, 2015
- 1,796
- 131
Just as Adam and the woman were sinful before they committed an act of sin.
The same goes for the angels that sinned.
How did at least one of the angels that God created sin? Most likely the way they all sinned without performing the act.
Time to go to school and the Word of God is Teacher:
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Ezek. 28:15.
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Is. 14:13–15.
There was no act of sin.
None. I am completely within the confines of the teaching and revelation of Scripture.
Notice that before Lucifer could act on the thoughts of his 'heart' God moved against Him in a flash of lightning:
Right at the conclusion of the thoughts of his 'heart' God cast him down to hell to the sides of the pit in perfect synchronicity of the words of Peter and Jude:
4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 2 Peter 2:4.
6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jude 6.
Me, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Peter, and Jude all say the same thing.
The same thing as God.
Now, what was it you were saying?
- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
Your doctrine of sinning without a sin committed . You are by yourself on that one . By the way there is no "Lucifer" but there is a Satan . THE NAME LUCIFER HAS NEVER BELONGED TO SATAN!
One more thing . Just where is this sin we are born with located at ? I don't think you can find it .
- Feb 2, 2015
- 1,796
- 131
Satan is a term that means "adversary" and has several times been used of man against another man. It is also used of anyone who is an adversary of God. Even Christians can be "Satan" the same way that Jesus called Peter the person "Satan."
So, who is this king of Tyrus and what's he doing in the Garden of Eden when it was post-Adam and woman the way barred by an angel and a sword. So, it can't be after they were driven out of Eden. Has to be before there was a man.
And whoever it was it says was created, but if king of Tyrus is a man then being created is an error for there were only two humans created and the rest were born.
This Tyrus is also called a "cherub," and if anyone has any knowledge of the ministries of seraphim and cherubim, they'd know that cherubim guard earthly holy things and seraphim guard heavenly holy things.
Another thing is the Mountain of God and the stones of fire which refer to God's Presence in the only place in Scripture called the Mountain of God and that is Jerusalem.
11 Moreover the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19 All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.
Eze 28:11–19.
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying,
Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof;
That opened not the house of his prisoners?
Is 14:12–17.
How can a mere man ascend to the stars and the area we call space? And without a space craft.
Satan is a characteristic term, like "impatience" or "aggressive." It is a descriptive term.
But there is a Lucifer. But the angels that sinned are all locked up. All the Satan's that sinned against God are all locked up. Cast down to hell and delivered in chains of darkness awaiting judgment day, as written by two apostles and pillars of the Church: Peter and Jude.
I think you over-extended yourself with that one.
Anyone who is an adversary of God is a Satan.
Even Christians. Like Pete.
- Apr 22, 2011
- 30,584
- 16,306
Just going to through this out there, but will not reply to negativity, as instead read the scriptures that go with this.
bible.org
Satan has his own trinity—the devil, the beast, and the false prophet (Revelation 16:13). He has his own church, “a synagogue of Satan” (Revelation 2:9). He has his own ministers, “ministers of Satan” (2 Corinthians 11:4-5). He has formulated his own system of theology “doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). He has established his own sacrificial system; “The Gentiles...sacrifice to demons” (1 Corinthians 10:20). He has his own communion service, “the cup of demons...and the table of demons” (1 Corinthians 10:21). His ministers proclaim his own gospel, “a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you” (Galatians 1:7-8). He has his own throne (Revelation 13:2) and his own worshipers (Revelation 13:4). So he has developed a thorough imitation of Christianity, viewed as a system of religion. In his role as the imitator of God, he inspires false christs, self-constituted messiahs (Matthew 24:4-5).
He employs false teachers who are specialists in his “theology,” to bring in “destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them” (2 Peter 2:1). They are adept at mixing truth and error in such proportions as to make error palatable. They carry on their teaching surreptitiously and often anonymously. He sends out false prophets. “And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many” (Matthew 24:11). He introduces false brethren into the church, who “had sneaked in to spy out our liberty...in order to bring us into bondage” (Galatians 2:4). He sponsors false apostles who imitate the true (2 Corinthians 11:13).
Satan’s Trinity | Bible.org
Satan has his own trinitythe devil, the beast, and the false prophet (Revelation 16:13). He has his own church, “a synagogue of Satan” (Revelation 2:9). He has his own ministers, “ministers of Satan” (2 Corinthians 11:4-5). He has formulated his own system of theology “doctrines of demons” (1...
Satan has his own trinity—the devil, the beast, and the false prophet (Revelation 16:13). He has his own church, “a synagogue of Satan” (Revelation 2:9). He has his own ministers, “ministers of Satan” (2 Corinthians 11:4-5). He has formulated his own system of theology “doctrines of demons” (1 Timothy 4:1). He has established his own sacrificial system; “The Gentiles...sacrifice to demons” (1 Corinthians 10:20). He has his own communion service, “the cup of demons...and the table of demons” (1 Corinthians 10:21). His ministers proclaim his own gospel, “a gospel contrary to that which we have preached to you” (Galatians 1:7-8). He has his own throne (Revelation 13:2) and his own worshipers (Revelation 13:4). So he has developed a thorough imitation of Christianity, viewed as a system of religion. In his role as the imitator of God, he inspires false christs, self-constituted messiahs (Matthew 24:4-5).
He employs false teachers who are specialists in his “theology,” to bring in “destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them” (2 Peter 2:1). They are adept at mixing truth and error in such proportions as to make error palatable. They carry on their teaching surreptitiously and often anonymously. He sends out false prophets. “And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many” (Matthew 24:11). He introduces false brethren into the church, who “had sneaked in to spy out our liberty...in order to bring us into bondage” (Galatians 2:4). He sponsors false apostles who imitate the true (2 Corinthians 11:13).
- Apr 22, 2011
- 30,584
- 16,306
Since the beginning of Gods creation of the heavens and earth in Genesis chapter one there has been an adversary that separates us from God through deceit, temptations and lies. This adversary has many names which include: Lucifer (could be a dual referent to Isaiah 14:12, but no mention in scripture as to, or even if God gave him a name), Satan, Devil, Beelzebub, Belial, Adversary, Dragon, Serpent and I’m sure a few others, but the important thing is who this being is and what purpose did he have and still has in heaven and earth. How did he come into existence in the first place and why was he not destroyed for his evil! Let us go and search the word of God for the answers.
God is a Spirit without form and the Lord made his angels spirits without form also. From these two scriptures below in John and Psalms we see that the inhabitants of heaven are not flesh and blood, but spirits created by God that cannot be destroyed by physical death, thus the term spiritual death that separates us from God. This is why Satan could never be physically destroyed.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Psalms 104:4 who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
In the Roman language Lucifer was the name given to the morning star Venus. The morning star appears in the sky just before dawn. In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can be translated as Day star, son of the Dawn. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor Day star, son of the Dawn, as Lucifer, and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place from the Latin in that of interpreting Lucifer into a fallen angel now named Satan. In the original Hebrew day star, son of the dawn is used, but not for that of Satan, but for the king of Babylon. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light (Jesus) to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded.
The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.
Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as one of the two guardian cherubs covering the atonement cover of the ark in the tabernacle of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord, Ezekiel 28:14, 15. The physical Tabernacle or Sanctuary in Jerusalem was patterned after the heavenly Tabernacle of God in heaven, Hebrews 9:1-5, 23,24; Exodus 25:17-22; 1 Kings 6:19-28. These scriptures describe the cherubim in the earthly Temple patterned after the heavenly. Ezekiel 28:12-15 identifies an angelic being who is called the anointed cherub who covers and he was on the holy mountain of God. We can only assume that Lucifer/Satan was one of the cherubs by the description in those scripture.
God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.
Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus – another dual referent)
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
(Stars in heaven also represents angels as in these verses, Judges 5:20; Job 38:7; Rev 1:20; 12:4)
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
(Dual referent)
Satan was cast down to the earth and became the ruler of iniquity over it before the creation of man which is why he had the power and right to give the kingdoms of the world over to Christ. Satan corrupted the nations until there was no righteous person found except Noah. Even after Satan was cast down to the ground he still vowed that he would ascend back into heaven and take his place on the throne and be like the most high.
Remember, Satan is a spirit and not flesh and blood so when he was cut down to the ground it was not literal, but symbolic that his so called kingdom would be that of a lesser magnitude than Gods kingdom. Satan is the total opposite of the love that God represents so whatever good that God does Satan does the opposite. For instance we know that the greatest commandment of God is to love and our commission is to take his word out into the world. Our service is to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, visit the sick and those in prison. Prison can be a literal prison or those who are imprisoned in mind by their own devastation's of life circumstances that engulfs them.
Since Satan is known as the god of this world and the prince of the powers of the air he has access to the throne of God to accuse the saints of God as Jesus makes intercession for them. Satan has no authority in heaven as he lost that privilege, but was cut down to earth and through his hatred and anger of God now uses his deceit to separate man from God by stealing the word of God from them thus stealing their faith in God.
We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the ruler of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Satan moves to and fro on the earth and has access to the throne of God to accuse the brethren. God made man in his image and breathed life into him. Man was created innocent, but also given free will, until Satan deceived Eve into eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil which she also gave to her husband Adam to eat of. Satan is very cunning and should be respected in the sense that he can do whatever it takes to separate us from God as his spiritual wickedness is increased through out the nations.
God is a Spirit without form and the Lord made his angels spirits without form also. From these two scriptures below in John and Psalms we see that the inhabitants of heaven are not flesh and blood, but spirits created by God that cannot be destroyed by physical death, thus the term spiritual death that separates us from God. This is why Satan could never be physically destroyed.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Psalms 104:4 who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
In the Roman language Lucifer was the name given to the morning star Venus. The morning star appears in the sky just before dawn. In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can be translated as Day star, son of the Dawn. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor Day star, son of the Dawn, as Lucifer, and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place from the Latin in that of interpreting Lucifer into a fallen angel now named Satan. In the original Hebrew day star, son of the dawn is used, but not for that of Satan, but for the king of Babylon. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light (Jesus) to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded.
The name Satan comes from a Hebrew word sah-TAHN which means adversary as in signifying an enemy, and an accuser, father of lies.
Satan was created perfect in all his ways with beauty, wisdom and freewill. God placed him as one of the two guardian cherubs covering the atonement cover of the ark in the tabernacle of God in heaven. He was entrusted with many possessions and found much favor in the Lord, Ezekiel 28:14, 15. The physical Tabernacle or Sanctuary in Jerusalem was patterned after the heavenly Tabernacle of God in heaven, Hebrews 9:1-5, 23,24; Exodus 25:17-22; 1 Kings 6:19-28. These scriptures describe the cherubim in the earthly Temple patterned after the heavenly. Ezekiel 28:12-15 identifies an angelic being who is called the anointed cherub who covers and he was on the holy mountain of God. We can only assume that Lucifer/Satan was one of the cherubs by the description in those scripture.
God created the earth and saw that it was good and he took Lucifer from Gods Holy Mountain and set him over the Garden of Eden as a covering cherub to watch over and enjoy all that was of God. As Lucifer was set in the garden iniquity was soon found in him as he defiled Gods sanctuary through pride in his own beauty and deceit as he wanted all that was of Gods here on earth to be his own as he tried to make his throne above the angels and be God.
Because iniquity was found in him God cast him and those angels who chose to follow him out of his holy mountain and cast them all down to earth to be trampled of all nations. The only reference in scripture that denotes there being one third of the angels falling with Satan is in Revelation 12:9.
(Ref: Read Ezekiel Chapter 28 Prince of Tyrus – another dual referent)
Revelation 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
(Stars in heaven also represents angels as in these verses, Judges 5:20; Job 38:7; Rev 1:20; 12:4)
Ezekiel 28:13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
Ezekiel 28:14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
Ezekiel 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.
Ezekiel 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.
Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
Isaiah 14:13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
Isaiah 14:14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Isaiah 14:15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
(Dual referent)
Satan was cast down to the earth and became the ruler of iniquity over it before the creation of man which is why he had the power and right to give the kingdoms of the world over to Christ. Satan corrupted the nations until there was no righteous person found except Noah. Even after Satan was cast down to the ground he still vowed that he would ascend back into heaven and take his place on the throne and be like the most high.
Remember, Satan is a spirit and not flesh and blood so when he was cut down to the ground it was not literal, but symbolic that his so called kingdom would be that of a lesser magnitude than Gods kingdom. Satan is the total opposite of the love that God represents so whatever good that God does Satan does the opposite. For instance we know that the greatest commandment of God is to love and our commission is to take his word out into the world. Our service is to feed the hungry, cloth the naked, visit the sick and those in prison. Prison can be a literal prison or those who are imprisoned in mind by their own devastation's of life circumstances that engulfs them.
Since Satan is known as the god of this world and the prince of the powers of the air he has access to the throne of God to accuse the saints of God as Jesus makes intercession for them. Satan has no authority in heaven as he lost that privilege, but was cut down to earth and through his hatred and anger of God now uses his deceit to separate man from God by stealing the word of God from them thus stealing their faith in God.
We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the ruler of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Satan moves to and fro on the earth and has access to the throne of God to accuse the brethren. God made man in his image and breathed life into him. Man was created innocent, but also given free will, until Satan deceived Eve into eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil which she also gave to her husband Adam to eat of. Satan is very cunning and should be respected in the sense that he can do whatever it takes to separate us from God as his spiritual wickedness is increased through out the nations.
- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
- Feb 2, 2015
- 1,796
- 131
Yes.
And the reason why I say that is because I believe the Scripture that says there is only ONE God, there is NONE like Him and He gives His glory to NO ONE.
This means that whatever God creates will be fallen short of His glory and the word for that is the Greek word "harmatia" which is translated in the KJV as "sin" and this word means "missing the mark [of the glory of God]"
There is only ONE Person who can stand before a Holy God blameless and that is the Holy Son.
Ya falla?
- Jul 9, 2023
- 67
- 49
I believe the best response to devils is to rebuke them and quell them in Jesus Name. Not screaming or yelling or with anger but just a serious or normal voice of confession, expression, and declaration. Have good day - Ignacio
- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
- Feb 2, 2015
- 1,796
- 131
Yup.
And they are ALL obedient servants of God.
The elect angels, the ones that appear in Daniel are also obedient servants of the Most High and do His bidding. They are NOT locked up, but they don't have freewill. No angel does. Neither does man.
- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
According to you were the "elect angels" created sinful ?
- Feb 2, 2015
- 1,796
- 131
They would have to be. However, how God is keeping them righteous is a mystery.
But then again, a lamb was slain from [before] the foundation (creation) of the world.
What may be good for man just may be good for two-thirds.
- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
Choices, we make them , some would call it free will , I call it making choices .
Not possible .
- Feb 2, 2015
- 1,796
- 131
So, Jesus died on the cross for our choices of sin?
Jesus died for our 'acts' of sin? Then if this is true then our sin nature remains and we go to heaven with a sin nature.
That doesn't make sense. As a matter of fact, your position destroys the doctrine of imputation.
See above.
The doctrine of imputation is described in 2 Corinthians 5:21.
21 For he hath made him [to be] sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. 2 Cor. 5:21.
The words "to be" are added by the translators for syntax purposes. Read it again without the added words. You'll see that on the cross Christ was "made" sin for us. In exchange we receive the righteousness of God. To say it the way you believe in which it is our 'choices' of sin that Christ died for then the doctrine of imputation is changed to read:
For he hath made him [to be] (the acts of) sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteous (acts) of God in him.
Thus, the sin nature remains if Christ died for only the "acts" or "choices" of sin.
And this is not the doctrine of imputation.
The doctrine of imputation is a "nature" swap. He took our sin nature, and we take His righteous nature. In this Peter's words are realized to a point:
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature... 2 Peter 1:4.
So, it's not the "acts" or "choices" of sin that Christ died for but became sin, the nature we are, and we are imputed His righteous divine nature.
- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
"Sin nature" a doctrine of men not God . I am not a follower of TULIP .
- Feb 2, 2015
- 1,796
- 131
It's not tulip.
It's biblical.
- May 16, 2021
- 6,983
- 4,757
A doctrine of men .