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Why o' why are you still asking me when, when you just said you agree with me that the argument is not about when. You really need God to help you discern Mark 9:48. I'm done here.
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Did God create hell?
- Thread starter Grazer
- Start date
Why o' why are you still asking me when, when you just said you agree with me that the argument is not about when. You really need God to help you discern Mark 9:48. I'm done here.
- Apr 2, 2003
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No, I absolutely did not "agree with [you] that the argument is not about when," since you clearly did not make that argument. I clearly agreed that the punishment is not about now but about what happens in eternity. You said "When is up to Jesus." The correct answer is: immediately after the Great White Throne Judgement. And that happens when? Sometime after his return.Why o' why are you still asking me when, when you just said you agree with me that the argument is not about when. You really need God to help you discern Mark 9:48. I'm done here.
So, where will they be punished?
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Mark 9:48 sir, search google and study this scripture and see how it is connected to hell. Mark Chapter 9 confirms the word hell three times. They will be punished in hell. Blessings.
- Apr 2, 2003
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Good! Now we've got when and where unbelievers will be punished.
Which leads all the way back to Luke 12. Clearly then, when Jesus returns and judges the unbeliever at the Judgement Seat, the punishment will quickly follow in hell. That is what Luke 12 is referring to and implies that there are degrees of physical punishment, strongly suggesting that the physical punishment itself is finite, not eternal. But as I stated before, that does not mean that they don't stay in hell for eternity.
And of course this whole discussion is moot if they just simply cease to exist.
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They don't cease to exist Free, STOP IGNORING Mark Chapter 9 and Mark 9:48!! Study Mark Chapter 9. You are literally driving me crazy!! Mark Chapter 9!!
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Mark 9:48 states never dies and not quenched. These terms represent eternity!!! Do you know what fire is Free? Have you ever burned your finger on the stove?
- Apr 2, 2003
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I didn't say they did. I clearly only said it's a possibility.
I'm not ignoring Mark chapter 9. It's talking about punishment in hell which is what we're talking about. There really isn't anything in Mark 9 to suggest that physical punishment itself is eternal. And now that I have shown that Luke 12 is speaking of the punishment of unbelievers in hell, and which suggests that the physical punishment is not eternal, we must somehow understand the two passages together without arbitrarily preferring one over the other. Of course, that means we must first have a proper understanding of what is actually stated in the passages.urk said:
So, the final point which I first joined the discussion to address, is that there are gray areas and it is not as straightforward as it all seems, as I have now shown.
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Mark 9:48 confirms eternity Free, if you can't see it then wow! Oh you were looking for the word eternity in scripture. Well, i got something close to the word eternity, will that do? You should go to Revelation 20:10 - And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever!!!!!!!!!!!
- Jun 21, 2009
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So, if I were to RIGHT NOW place myself into a fire that would not die (not in my lifetime anyway) does that mean that I could not die? The fact that the fire itself does not die may refer to the punishment reserved for fallen angels, not the duration of those sinners who have not tasted of the Tree of Life. If the "worm" doesn't die, does that mean the apple may never be consumed? I'm talking about this in as an absolute necessity. If I were to say that you would not die in truth, does this mean anything about something or someone else?
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I WILL PRAY OVER THIS THREAD! 
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Scripture tells us the worm never dies, adding and subtracting from scripture is what false prophets do!
- Jun 21, 2009
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Who is the antecedent for the pronoun there? Who exactly is being referred back to when the Bible says, "[he]... shall be tormented?" Could it mean that the devil will be cast into the lake of fire and brimstone... and [he, the devil] shall be tormented for ever? Must it mean that "The False Prophet" and "The Beast" are also to be tormented forever?
Well, to be fair, it could mean this. I would suggest that they (both the beast and the false prophet) have then necessarily eaten of the Tree of Life and have rejected the salvation of the Lord. I don't see where these things even mention eternal life given to unbelievers, do you?
- Jun 21, 2009
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You have quite a high opinion of me, calling me a prophet (false or otherwise). Of course this opinion of yours is simply that. To the best of my knowledge I have not been called to the office of Prophet by the Lord and I make no pretensions about it. How about you try acknowledging that we are peers, both loved by God. Once that false perception is settled, perhaps we can continue to reason together. Let me know, please?
thisnumbersdisconnected
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- Aug 9, 2012
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However, there is a plural implication in the Greek kai ("also") that requires the fate of all three to be read as the same ...
Revelation 20i NASB
10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Don't know why that's an issue, really.10 And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
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No,'He' refers to sinners who haven't repented of their sins in this lifetime. Mark 9:48 and Revelation 20:10 confirms eternity. How is everyone missing this?? Does everyone know what synonyms are?? Do false prophets not walk this earth destroying God's kingdom as we speak?? Does the devil not tempt people?? Eyes open!! :o
- Jun 21, 2009
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Just considering the implications of the Scriptures being discussed here. Looking for a way to show that every man (believer and unbeliever alike) will be given eternal life. As far as I know today, this isn't the case. I certainly can make a case for believers to rely on the promise of God for eternal life but don't know how to do so for everybody. Maybe urk has a point that I've missed.
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No Sparrow, not eternal life, unbelievers receive eternal fire! God is life, sin is death.
- Jun 21, 2009
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We're getting closer to a consensus here then, but there is a noticeable absence of Scriptural support for your position regarding my actual question: Do unbelievers inherit eternal life from the father of lies? Do they obtain the benefit of the promise made to believers? I have nothing in me that denies that the fires are eternal, but that's not the point of the question, now is it?
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If you mean eternal life as in eternal fire, then yes. There is no life in hell. What is life to you? Comparing life in heaven to whatever you think is in hell is impossible. Their worm never dies, worm as in the sinner/unbelievers. Scripture support Mark 9:48 - worm is a synonym for ubelievers. If you don't understand this, you would need to pray and ask the Holy Spirit to discern for you.