Did Jesus Rise On Sunday ?

[Shimshon]

ok, so abandoning ours? we are the same with a muslim? we have things in common with a Buddhist which isn't really a religion but a philosophy.

You are aware that orthodox Judaism of today is as much a 'religion' as any other? Are you aware of what happened at Yavneh? And the power struggle within the pharisee's in regards to the priesthood?

 

[Shimshon]

he wasn't a reformed jew that married gays and was pro abortion.

All men have fallen short and need forgiveness, no?

 

[jasonc]

You are aware that orthodox Judaism of today is as much a 'religion' as any other? Are you aware of what happened at Yavneh? And the power struggle within the pharisee's in regards to the priesthood?

yes I know that. I never said they were perfect. only that of those three mains I use them. they do teach the same as I would on Leviticus 18 without stretching the context of that to men two men lying in a tent in a battlefield and not the same as two men married that love each other or the time when that was said pedastery. I had a jewess in my unit that was fluent in Hebrew and went whacky on that. yet like rashi. go figure.

 

[jasonc]

All men have fallen short and need forgiveness, no?

again I never said they couldn't. I said what I read from to get good grasp of how the ancient jews did it. ie this:

http://www.aishdas.org/toratemet/en_mishpatim.html

likely orthodox. a reformed or other jew might say the same. but then on other issues they don't. I have heard some reformed don't look for the moshiac at all. so I wouldn't quote that sect on what they say about the moshiac. they don't likely teach it or even know it in the temple.

 

[Shimshon]

again I never said they couldn't. I said what I read from to get good grasp of how the ancient jews did it. ie this:

http://www.aishdas.org/toratemet/en_mishpatim.html

likely orthodox. a reformed or other jew might say the same. but then on other issues they don't. I have heard some reformed don't look for the moshiac at all. so I wouldn't quote that sect on what they say about the moshiac. they don't likely teach it or even know it in the temple.

I"m sorry Jason, I think your full of generalizations. The same could be said and done for every religion there is. But , I guess I share some of your feelings as I can not identify with Christians, nor as a Christian because of the differences in understanding when it comes to Messiah and Yisrael. However I choose not to cast others in a bad light because I hold a different belief than they. lashon hara and all.......

 

[tobewell]

I don't think so.
Jesus taught the Apostles and disciples to obey the Torah not what was being taught in the second century temple period. That's why the Pharisees didn't like Him.
What Jewish text are you referring to?
Jesus said,
Mat_12:40 for, as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so shall the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.

Sounds like one day as in Genesis to me. 'evening and morning - one day'
Do you think Jesus was quoting the traditions of culture or the Word of God?

I have already said, I would have to check on that because it is confusing.

But, are you of the belief that Christ rose on Saturday?

 

[jasonc]

I"m sorry Jason, I think your full of generalizations. The same could be said and done for every religion there is. But , I guess I share some of your feelings as I can not identify with Christians, nor as a Christian because of the differences in understanding when it comes to Messiah and Yisrael. However I choose not to cast others in a bad light because I hold a different belief than they. lashon hara and all.......

of course you would, you don't believe in the bible fully either. if jesus isn't whom he said he as it its written in then lets not bother with the bible, its a lie. the jews say the Heshem is merciful, etc, I can post a quote on the moshiac on that and they say that the curtain is torn, and we will Know G-D. the veil was torn back in ad 33, we can know God. which is right? the muslim? the Jew? the Jehovah's Witness? the Mormon? all of them have a different view of God. I was raised a Jehovah Witness.

 

[Deborah13]

As I have shown from Jewish websites, ancient Jews counted a day's start and end at the first rise of the night's stars.

I agree with that. That is what Genesis says, evening and morning-one day.
A Jewish first day, begins at sunset on Saturday and ends at sunset on Sunday.

What we are questioning is this idea of partial days or evenings counting as a full day.
If Jesus died on Friday, that is only, one night and and one partial night.

 

[Shimshon]

of course you would, you don't believe in the bible fully either.

See, there you go again, only this time personally to me. How do you know this? Because I don't identify as Christian but as Jewish? I don't believe the doctrines of Christianity. I fully accept the Word of God as given to the apostles and as taught to me by the Spirit of Truth that I received when I believed in the Holy One of Yisrael.

if jesus isn't whom he said he as it its written in then lets not bother with the bible, its a lie. the jews say the Heshem is merciful, etc, I can post a quote on the moshiac on that and they say that the curtain is torn, and we will Know G-D. the veil was torn back in ad 33, we can know God. which is right? the muslim? the Jew? the Jehovah's Witness? the Mormon? all of them have a different view of God. I was raised a Jehovah Witness.

Those who believe are in union with God and Messiah through the Spirit. Religion is an opiate for the masses.

 

[Eugene]

Luke 23:54 - in the Greek the word translated as 'drew on' mean to light, to dawn.
I understand this as....
He died on the day that the lamb was prepared for the Passover and the Passover Sabbath was dawning. Which was actually in the evening.

Jesus rose sometime after sunset on what we call Saturday.
Anytime after sunset is the first day of the week, Sunday.


TOG lines out the only way to get 3 full days and 3 full nights. But even if He died on Friday all we can get is one full night and one partial night.

I don't know if this helps, but I wonder at the timing if not pertinent to Jesus' rising.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

 

[Deborah13]

I have already said, I would have to check on that because it is confusing.

But, are you of the belief that Christ rose on Saturday?

I believe He rose on the first day of the week.
Which began at sunset on Saturday and ended at sunset on Sunday.
It was still dark when He rose.

 

[jasonc]

See, there you go again, only this time personally to me. How do you know this? Because I don't identify as Christian but as Jewish? I don't believe the doctrines of Christianity. I fully accept the Word of God as given to the apostles and as taught to me by the Spirit of Truth that I received when I believed in the Holy One of Yisrael.
Those who believe are in union with God and Messiah through the Spirit. Religion is an opiate for the masses.

you said that you don't believe the bible. fully accept the word of god as given to the apostles. they were dead when the bible was put together. so which bible?

so you don't practice any religion? ok so I shall rewrite the first amendment in favor of that one.

congress shall not make a law establishing or favoring any religion unless its one person or a group that doesn't meet in any edifice or locale that is an official in nature.

Christianity is a religion that is simple in nature and limited in rituals but it has them.

so its ONLY you that is taught. YOU cant be off. how do you obey Hebrew 10:25? here? this isn't church. it is not at all. if that was the case we can just close the buildings and stay home and type away.

 

[Shimshon]

you said that you don't believe the bible. fully accept the word of god as given to the apostles. they were dead when the bible was put together. so which bible?

Doctrine of biblical infailability....... I think I see where your comming from. Since I don't hold to the church doctrine of 'holy bible' as they have devised it i don't believe the bible fully. o.k. I understand how you see that.

so you don't practice any religion? ok so I shall rewrite the first amendment in favor of that one.

I do not identify myself as part of a religion, no. I do practice traditions of my heritage. All have fallen short, so what? All are callled where they are.

congress shall not make a law establishing or favoring any religion unless its one person or a group that doesn't meet in any edifice or locale that is an official in nature.

Christianity is a religion that is simple in nature and limited in rituals but it has them.

This would be your understanding of Christianity, not mine.

so its ONLY you that is taught. YOU cant be off. how do you obey Hebrew 10:25? here? this isn't church. it is not at all. if that was the case we can just close the buildings and stay home and type away.

Another generalization that I never implied.[/QUOTE]

 

[jasonc]

Doctrine of biblical infailability....... I think I see where your comming from. Since I don't hold to the church doctrine of 'holy bible' as they have devised it i don't believe the bible fully. o.k. I understand how you see that.

I do not identify myself as part of a religion, no. I do practice traditions of my heritage. All have fallen short, so what? All are callled where they are.

This would be your understanding of Christianity, not mine.

Another generalization that I never implied.

[/QUOTE]
uhm you don't believe in a church. I know messianic jews wouldn't see it that way. they would call a jew a muslim or Mormon on the same path as you have. so you cant meet with them. so likely you are reformed jews still that has some mixing of Christ in there. I know those well enough to say they do intermix with the humanists and also the uu here. though this temple seems to be an exception at times.

 

[Deborah13]

I don't know if this helps, but I wonder at the timing if not pertinent to Jesus' rising.
Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Joh 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

It was still dark, but the sun was rising, and the tomb was empty. He could have risen hours before. The scripture just doesn't say exactly when, except on the first day.
At least I don't understand anywhere that it does.

 

[Eugene]

Joh 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Joh 20:2 Then she runneth, and cometh to Simon Peter, and to the other disciple, whom Jesus loved, and saith unto them, They have taken away the Lord out of the sepulchre, and we know not where they have laid him.

It was still dark, but the sun was rising, and the tomb was empty. He could have risen hours before. The scripture just doesn't say exactly when, except on the first day.
At least I don't understand anywhere that it does.

Okay, thanks.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Did Jesus Rise On Sunday ? I have not talked about this here in years, so what say you ?

How did Jesus die on Friday and rise on Sunday and is said to have been dead for 3 days?

The popular story of Jesus being crucified on Good Friday and his resurrection taking place on Sunday has unfortunately become part of modern day Christianity. If you have an NIV bible open it to Matthew 12:40 and discover the true story. Jesus said, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Now turn to John 11:9 and read this rhetorical question by Jesus, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight?" By putting these two verses together we see Jesus establishes he would spend in the heart of the earth 36 hours (3x12) for day and 36 hours (3x12) for night. Therefore, we know the three days and three nights he spoke of in Matthew 12 would have to equal 72 hours.

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_did_Je...nday_and_is_said_to_have_been_dead_for_3_days

Isn't this a little early for this, Lewis? Sounds like you've been hanging around me a tad too long. Well, let's hope this is settled by Easter, or I should say, Passover.

Yes, what Jesus said, as quoted in that article does indeed indicate that he meant a full 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb (I don't agree with the Spirit part and his "job" in those 3 days but I want to deal with the timing here). Us gnomonists understand his quote as a hidden language that assures us he meant a full day, and not part of one. He died late Nisan 14 as the Passover lambs were being slaughtered, and Nisan 15 was a high holy day (Unleavened Bread). That's when he was buried by, so Nisan 15 is the first full day in the tomb. Note that Firstfruits is on a Sunday. That was a ceremony taken place on a Sunday showing his resurrection occurred already and his ascending to the Father (meaning this occurred the next calendar day after the resurrection). This is the wavesheaf offering. Count 3 days and 3 nights from Nisan 15 and we come to Nisan 18 which had to be a Sunday and he had to be arisen by then for the ceremonies to take place (first the cutting of the sheaf at sundown and then later the wave ceremony). Now, if the 18th is on a Sunday, what day is the 14th? Look on any calendar. The 14th is a Wednesday(late), and he arose 3 days later on the 17th on the Sabbath (late) for the ceremonies on Sunday (the 18th) to take place foreshadowing and celebrating a risen Christ.

Yes, it's amazing how people find inventive ways to count to 3 and how the calendar gets reinterpreted. But one has to understand time to come to this accurate conclusion that he died late Wednesday, buried by sundown Wednesday, and arose near sundown Saturday (72 hours later) as that day was closing and Sunday was commencing for firstfruits celebration. This is the only thing that fits the feasts, and mathematical logic. Anything else is waaaaaay too complicated (and wrong).

 

[Deborah13]

Isn't this a little early for this, Lewis? Sounds like you've been hanging around me a tad too long. Well, let's hope this is settled by Easter, or I should say, Passover.

Yes, what Jesus said, as quoted in that article does indeed indicate that he meant a full 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb (I don't agree with the Spirit part and his "job" in those 3 days but I want to deal with the timing here). Us gnomonists understand his quote as a hidden language that assures us he meant a full day, and not part of one. He died late Nisan 14 as the Passover lambs were being slaughtered, and Nisan 15 was a high holy day (Unleavened Bread). That's when he was buried by, so Nisan 15 is the first full day in the tomb. Note that Firstfruits is on a Sunday. That was a ceremony taken place on a Sunday showing his resurrection occurred already and his ascending to the Father (meaning this occurred the next calendar day after the resurrection). This is the wavesheaf offering. Count 3 days and 3 nights from Nisan 15 and we come to Nisan 18 which had to be a Sunday and he had to be arisen by then for the ceremonies to take place (first the cutting of the sheaf at sundown and then later the wave ceremony). Now, if the 18th is on a Sunday, what day is the 14th? Look on any calendar. The 14th is a Wednesday(late), and he arose 3 days later on the 17th on the Sabbath (late) for the ceremonies on Sunday (the 18th) to take place foreshadowing and celebrating a risen Christ.

Yes, it's amazing how people find inventive ways to count to 3 and how the calendar gets reinterpreted. But one has to understand time to come to this accurate conclusion that he died late Wednesday, buried by sundown Wednesday, and arose near sundown Saturday (72 hours later) as that day was closing and Sunday was commencing for firstfruits celebration. This is the only thing that fits the feasts, and mathematical logic. Anything else is waaaaaay too complicated (and wrong).

Hi Tim,
Are you saying that you believe that He ascended to the Father, when He told the women to go tell the disciples that He was ascending to the Father?

 

[tobewell]

Scripture stating a Friday crucifixion:

Matt. 27:62

The Guard at the Tomb
62Now on the next day, the day after the preparation, the chief priests and the Pharisees gathered together with Pilate, 63and said, "Sir, we remember that when He was still alive that deceiver said, 'After three days I am to rise again.'…


Mark 15:42

42 It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, 43 Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God,went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus’ body. 44 Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. 45 When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph. 46 So Joseph bought some linen cloth, took down the body, wrapped it in the linen, and placed it in a tomb cut out of rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47 Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joseph saw where he was laid.

Luke 23:54New International Version (NIV)

54 It was Preparation Day, and the Sabbath was about to begin.



John 19:31New International Version (NIV)

31 Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jewish leaders did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.


P.S. My apologies for the super script and bold lettering (I'm not yelling) and I'd change it if I knew how before posting. I'm working off my iPad.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Hi Tim,
Are you saying that you believe that He ascended to the Father, when He told the women to go tell the disciples that He was ascending to the Father?

Correct, to show his finished work accepted by the Father for sins. I did not mean to ascend and stay there like he did 40 days later which was for a different reason.